[PGT] Canucks at Flames - F*** CBC Edition

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yup, Edmonton is coming like a sun of a gun. They're only 6 points back with a game in hand. They could be very tough if they get on a roll. Especially with the us vs world feeling they must have. 

They still have a subpar defense and goaltending. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yup, Edmonton is coming like a sun of a gun. They're only 6 points back with a game in hand. They could be very tough if they get on a roll. Especially with the us vs world feeling they must have. 

Winning all 3 of the seasons series now looks a lot bigger, doesn't it? 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yup, Edmonton is coming like a sun of a gun. They're only 6 points back with a game in hand. They could be very tough if they get on a roll. Especially with the us vs world feeling they must have. 

 

sure 6 points back... with 6 teams to leapfrog. With all the divisional and 3 point games thats a big task. They have to stay on a massive heater and injury free to pull it off. 

[Jaimito]

33 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's been a while since I had to think about it 

 

SCF will go through Vegas, LA and likely Avs.  

 

Nux need to learn how to compete vs those teams.  They have months to prepare.

 

First game v LA is late Feb.  Then Avs.  Mar Vegas.  

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

sure 6 points back... with 6 teams to leapfrog. With all the divisional and 3 point games thats a big task. They have to stay on a massive heater and injury free to pull it off. 

 

and that's 6 points back of the wildcard, not the Canucks.  Still, if any team can do it, it's the Oilers.........a motivated McD isn't good for the teams they're chasing

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

SCF will go through Vegas, LA and likely Avs.  

 

Nux need to learn how to compete vs those teams.  They have months to prepare.

 

First game v LA is late Feb.  Then Avs.  Mar Vegas.  

Dallas. 

[Jaimito]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Dallas. 

Maybe.  I don't like the team to go far.  I think a Pacific div team will get to SCF.  

[HorvatToBaertschi]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Dallas. 

The other side of the bracket is between Colorado and Dallas, and I personally don't see how Dallas can beat the Avs. They're a well rounded team with solid goaltending, but they lack the elite player that will put them over the top. Pavelski will fill in that role as a grinder getting tons of points because he's built for the playoffs, but Robertson ain't that guy. 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

How good is LA? 

Im interested to see where we measure up against them. 

 

They are really really good. They were already good, built for playoffs, and they got even better in that regards with Dubois. They have great veterans in Doughty and Kopitar, good strong D, scoring, and incredible Centers. I predicted they would be the story in the west this year.

 

 

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

You bet.   EDM is 7-3 last ten games ... won the last four.   Winning all 6 of a possible 6 points against them can't be swept into, they "aren't a playoff team".   Their past four years says otherwise.   Like saying Vegas was "done for" because they spent half the season with their best players the year before they won a cup, in the infirmary.    EDM is not an "easy" win, because they are lower in the standings.    

 

Do agree we have struggled since Soucy went down.   Our D depth got a big boost.    Literally and figuratively. 

 

As for LA   Nobody had us ahead of them to start the year.   They did exactly what JB should have tried harder to do but couldn't accomplish.   This is their rebuild/re-tool "bump".   Did they do enough for it to last post Doughty and Kopitar?   Don't think so, but they aren't a team to ignore either.   

 

Edmonton and the Kings are both giant hurdles. The Kings may or not have cleared that hurdle but what's scary is this year one of the hurdle. They have lots of room to grow.

[RJCF96]

20 hours ago, Joshua.Guy said:

And they played 3 fewer games than us through October-November. 

 

Are week long breaks in every teams schedule? I don't remember that being a thing. 

Honestly, they were getting things back together before this break and this break could derail their momentum. I took a look at their schedule, everything from Mid-Feb to end of season is brutal. So many back-to-backs and travel and lack of breaks. It could break them.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Winning all 3 of the seasons series now looks a lot bigger, doesn't it? 

Sure does... was told a week or two ago, that the only reason we were doing so well, was that we beat up on the weak kids (teams)... doesn't really look like that anymore now does it....

[Jaimito]

 

 

[Blue]

All the analytics ppl are wanking hard over the Kings now just because they got ahead of Vancouver in goal differential over the last couple games. As soon as another team is leading goal diff. it becomes their go-stat. 

[Blue]

27 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

They are really really good. They were already good, built for playoffs, and they got even better in that regards with Dubois. They have great veterans in Doughty and Kopitar, good strong D, scoring, and incredible Centers. I predicted they would be the story in the west this year.

 

 

 

Edmonton and the Kings are both giant hurdles. The Kings may or not have cleared that hurdle but what's scary is this year one of the hurdle. They have lots of room to grow.

Buuuulllshiiiit.

 

PLD is a total diva that won't work in the playoffs. This isn't 2012 Kopitar either. Sure he will perform in the regular season but that isn't playoffs 

 

They will fall off and go through a skid and you'll be saying "look over here" at the latest toy in the west that isn't the Canucks.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

and that's 6 points back of the wildcard, not the Canucks.  Still, if any team can do it, it's the Oilers.........a motivated McD isn't good for the teams they're chasing

 

no but it could be great for us for him to beat up on the division. 

[Rip The Mesh]

8 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

As it turns out, he covers way more then Hoglander and Zadorov, way more. Not use to how avid Canuck vans are; Meeting and talking on the street.

Notices how much more other teams are raising their level playing us compared to last year, at least the amount I saw.

Our practice level is good but have to be much better still.

Boeser is comfortable coming to me and asking me what I can do even better. When Hoglander is checking hard, being a pest, he deserves the extra ice.

Thinks they have possibly over played Hughes, maybe now that we have Zadorof, we can equalize a bit though Quinn is great when he's playing alot,

vital on the power play. Dakota has been really good / really gritty, not afraid to put him out in all circumstanses.

Thinks Kuzmenko has been better the last couple of games. Want's to see more net drive and wants him to be better in his own zone.

His old coach Mike Keenan was hard on him, maybe made me better as a player...says a little begrudgingly ....

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

Great interview. Thanks for posting. Tocchet is a no nonsense, direct coach that has emboldened this team. I love his statement on analytics and how he views it as a tool to be used, but that the eye test is equally important, if not more. Great stuff. 

[Joshua.Guy]

2 hours ago, RJCF96 said:

Honestly, they were getting things back together before this break and this break could derail their momentum. I took a look at their schedule, everything from Mid-Feb to end of season is brutal. So many back-to-backs and travel and lack of breaks. It could break them.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Last time we needed a D, it came late and it was Dermott (around the same time of the season).   This time we got Zadarov.   For sure Allvin has done a great job.   Wow really.  

 

Dermott  

Zadorov 

 

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

They still have a subpar defense and goaltending. 

 

Not really. Talbot has a .930 SV% and a 1.96 GAA. The only goalie with better numbers is Adin Hill in Vegas. The Kings have allowed only 50 goals against. The best in the league although they've played less games. Their defence is composed of Doughty, Anderson, Roy, Gavrikov, Spence, and Englund. Pretty damn good, especially if doughty is playing at all-star caliber levels. Definitely not subpar.

 

This sounds more like you hope this is true. It's not. It doesn't do any good to pretend teams aren't good when they are. It doesn't make us bad but we do have to accept that we're up against some pretty stiff competition and need to find a way to be better then them.

 

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

sure 6 points back... with 6 teams to leapfrog. With all the divisional and 3 point games thats a big task. They have to stay on a massive heater and injury free to pull it off. 

 

Yeah, it's obviously not easy but if they rise to the level people thought they were before the season started they have a really good chance imo. They are better than most of the teams they are chasing, if not all. I wouldn't be surprised if they are back within a point or two of a spot by Christmas.

 

3 hours ago, stawns said:

 

and that's 6 points back of the wildcard, not the Canucks.  Still, if any team can do it, it's the Oilers.........a motivated McD isn't good for the teams they're chasing

 

I don't care either way to be honest but when I look at them impartially I see them being fully capable of getting back into it. We're talking about the pre-season Stanley Cup favorites with two of the best players in the world, McDavid being injured, plus some bad luck and perhaps bad preparation. It's not a stretch at all to think they'll make a serious push. In fact it should be expected if you're one of their opponents.

 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Maybe.  I don't like the team to go far.  I think a Pacific div team will get to SCF.  

 

Dallas is a very good team. One of the best defensively in the league. They were Vegas' biggest competition last year and came close to beating them. I would rank them 4 or 5 in the West along with us, however they have more veteran pedigree and playoff experience. Defence wins championships. They will be tough in the playoffs and could win it all.

 

2 hours ago, Blue said:

Buuuulllshiiiit.

 

PLD is a total diva that won't work in the playoffs. This isn't 2012 Kopitar either. Sure he will perform in the regular season but that isn't playoffs 

 

They will fall off and go through a skid and you'll be saying "look over here" at the latest toy in the west that isn't the Canucks.

 

This is all just nonsense Blue. PLD is not a total diva. How on earth would you know he won't work in the playoffs on a real good LA Kings hockey team? That's just a ludicrous statement. He's 6'4, 220 lbs., can skate like the wind, score, and has a mean streak. Sounds like a possible playoff stud actually. Especially on a team with two other terrific playoff centers to distribute the load. No, Kopitar isn't 26 anymore but he sure has the skill, experience, and passion to help lead the Kings in the post season. I don't know if some fans are insecure but there are some good hockey teams out there and the Kings are sure looking like one of them. 3rd in the league in winning %. It doesn't make the Canucks worse to acknowledge that.

 

-To all thanks for the discussion. It's been very entertaining and pleasant.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Not really. Talbot has a .930 SV% and a 1.96 GAA. The only goalie with better numbers is Adin Hill in Vegas. The Kings have allowed only 50 goals against. The best in the league although they've played less games. Their defence is composed of Doughty, Anderson, Roy, Gavrikov, Spence, and Englund. Pretty damn good, especially if doughty is playing at all-star caliber levels. Definitely not subpar.

 

This sounds more like you hope this is true. It's not. It doesn't do any good to pretend teams aren't good when they are. It doesn't make us bad but we do have to accept that we're up against some pretty stiff competition and need to find a way to be better then them.

 

I was referring to Edmonton, not LA, so your assertion that I was pretending to say that LA isn't good is totally fallacious.

 

I mean, I quoted your post regarding Edmonton so I'm not sure how you confused the two.

Edited December 4, 2023 by PhillipBlunt

[Gawdzukes]

12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I was referring to Edmonton, not LA, so your assertion that I was pretending to say that LA isn't good is totally fallacious.

 

I mean, I quoted your post regarding Edmonton so I'm not sure how you confused the two.

 

Oh dman you did. I'm sorry about that Phillip. I was having a convo about LA at the same time and must have gotten confused. My mistake 100%. I don't know how I missed that either. My apologies.

 

Yes they still have those question marks but as we saw last year it didn't seem to stop them in the regular season so we'll if they can at least get back in the playoff picture.

 

I owe you dinner and a blunt. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[The Duke]

22 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Great interview. Thanks for posting. Tocchet is a no nonsense, direct coach that has emboldened this team. I love his statement on analytics and how he views it as a tool to be used, but that the eye test is equally important, if not more. Great stuff. 

 

For sure.  
 

I think anyone who has coached would know this to be the case.  Not “eye test” in what you see at ice level or on the TV at game speed..

 

but an informed opinion based on what you’re expecting, what you’re asking of guys (maybe playing tougher minutes or easier minutes), the weighing that against what you see and then double, triple and quadruple checking via game video.  
 

That’s the story coaches are working with.. while the analytics can be a nice tool, the other way is much more informative and gives a much bigger picture. 
 

Analyitcs are such a draw for fans (and perhaps scouts) because it allows us to monitor and compare the entire league - no one is breaking down every game for all 32 teams let alone holding that info in your head.  

[Gawdzukes]

5 minutes ago, The Duke said:

 

For sure.  
 

I think anyone who has coached would know this to be the case.  Not “eye test” in what you see at ice level or on the TV at game speed..

 

but an informed opinion based on what you’re expecting, what you’re asking of guys (maybe playing tougher minutes or easier minutes), the weighing that against what you see and then double, triple and quadruple checking via game video.  
 

That’s the story coaches are working with.. while the analytics can be a nice tool, the other way is much more informative and gives a much bigger picture. 
 

Analyitcs are such a draw for fans (and perhaps scouts) because it allows us to monitor and compare the entire league - no one is breaking down every game for all 32 teams let alone holding that info in your head.  

 

I've been thinking about this egg vs chicken, eye test vs analytics question for awhile and I've kind of come to this conclusion. I'm someone who has always been heavy on the eye test side of the debate but what I believe I do is actually akin to more informed analytics. Take dump ins or scoring chances against. Sure you can add those all up and get an "analytics number" but they lack context on their own. When I'm watching I'm counting the number of times a player makes a smart dump in, or the number of times his poor play leads to a chance against. In that sense by watching I'm building my own analytics and I have a rough idea of how every player does in each category. The more you watch the more accurate your internal data will be. Of course as a human I miss stuff and misinterpret so the actual analytics numbers definitely come in handy as a confirmation or alert to misinterpretation.

 

Now that I read your post a couple times this is basically what you said. good point!

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Oh dman you did. I'm sorry about that Phillip. I was having a convo about LA at the same time and must have gotten confused. My mistake 100%. I don't know how I missed that either. My apologies.

You silly.

17 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yes they still have those question marks but as we saw last year it didn't seem to stop them in the regular season so we'll if they can at least get back in the playoff picture.

Yeah, they do have the engine of McDavid and Draisaitl, but those guys have been neutralized by capable defenses. Which is clearly something they lack and will be their eventual undoing in the playoffs. Ekholm and Nurse are their only two really legitimate top 6 defensemen, and Nurse's issues with coverage in his own end is well documented. They still have no consistent goaltending.

 

I mean, credit to McDavid/Drai for being so capable offensively. That's not easy and can be burdensome, especially when the lack of depth on the team is evident. 

17 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I owe you dinner and a blunt. 

All good, brah!

[PhillipBlunt]

28 minutes ago, The Duke said:

 

For sure.  
 

I think anyone who has coached would know this to be the case.  Not “eye test” in what you see at ice level or on the TV at game speed..

 

but an informed opinion based on what you’re expecting, what you’re asking of guys (maybe playing tougher minutes or easier minutes), the weighing that against what you see and then double, triple and quadruple checking via game video.  
 

That’s the story coaches are working with.. while the analytics can be a nice tool, the other way is much more informative and gives a much bigger picture. 
 

Analyitcs are such a draw for fans (and perhaps scouts) because it allows us to monitor and compare the entire league - no one is breaking down every game for all 32 teams let alone holding that info in your head.  

Analytics will never trump the eye test. Hockey has so many variables that heat maps and PDO/FTW will never address. I highly doubt any coach would go into the dressing room in between periods and demand that the forwards maintain a positive Corsi rate to ensure the PDO is OK and not FTW. The players would laugh at him. The visceral aspect of sports is where the athletes and coaches reside, and analytics is where.....let's say.....more studious types make their money. I'll err on the side of those playing the game, and not those who use Excel to understand it.