PGT - Devils at Canucks - 12/05/2023

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Avoided this PGT for obvious reasons, the loss was brutal and took a piece of my heart with it. Here's my 1 comment.

 

Why does Dak get rewarded for taking dumb penalties, and Hoglander demoted? There's no logic.  Dak should not be playing with Pettersson ever. We need an actual top line (although adding Hogs to the Miller line clearly has it going like a top line). 

 

Tons to be impressed about yesterday, and tons to be disappointed about. 82 game season. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So Moneypuck?

 

More like..

 

Teams in higher tax markets: Money? Fuck. 

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It's ugly but I don't see any reason why the NHL would stop putting the screws to other teams 

 

It's not just Canadian teams these markets have advantages over, but other American teams as well 

 

It'd probably also be a huge headache given each state and province has their own tax stuff, don't even know how they'd go about equalizing it all legally 

A chartered accountant could easily figure it out.   My little brain, says just make all deals based on net pay.   And adjust the cap to that.   But suppose that would be too much work.  At least it creates a huge barrier to entry into Europe.   Could see Bettmans plan, to hog all the hockey dollars and expand into Europe, with that becoming the Eastern conference and NA staying as the West.   The NHL isn't an elitist entity anymore as far as its product goes.   Getting better though.   

Edited December 6, 2023 by IBatch

[JeremyCuddles]

We still having the woe is me tax discussion? We've had multiple agents come out and say there are work arounds for it. The tax thing is a bigger issue for fans and media. 

[Ghostsof1915]

7 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

We still having the woe is me tax discussion? We've had multiple agents come out and say there are work arounds for it. The tax thing is a bigger issue for fans and media. 

Sorry, my taxes "I forgot..."

[SilentSam]

10 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

—————

 

edit :

 

*damn it, I forgot @Coconuts @Devron. Two of my faves.

 

And I remembered his name!!!

@Roberts @Roberts @Roberts!
 

if I say his name two more times, he will appear in the mirror behind me.

 

——————-
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

Happy Birthday HB!

 

its not a bad thought to entertain the idea of trading Petey.

 

The question would obviously be where and what for ,  especially in this cap era .

 

Perhaps Arizona has the best stable of prospects and picks?

 

Chicago / Bedard ?    ( we may have to add)

..  given the atmosphere in Chicago these days , I don’t think Bedard will sign there in a couple of years.

 

Many thoughts and discussions around this I’m sure.

 

He does look “off”  ,   I’d like to know what’s behind it ..  

growth?  injury?  ..  happiness? ..  maybe too much pressure on himself.

some is good,  too much can be dismantling.

[AnotherCanucksFan]

Watching the post game interviews, it was concerning to watch the Hughes interview. At least Miller was acknowledging that he didnt play well in the 1st period. This is becoming a pattern that the Canucks play differently when a game is hyped up. The Canucks played without structure, tried mostly long passes, and were acting like they were better than they are - the result was 4 goals scored because the Canuck's players were either out of position or doing too much.

 

I'm reminded in some ways of last year, where the Canucks would change how they played. Why so many long passes, when it mostly results in losing the puck. Shorter passes to get it out of the zone, THEN maybe do some longer passes. Repeatedly the Canucks tried the long passes even though it wasnt working and often led to New Jersey counter attacking with pressure on the puck in their zone. The result - Canuck's players losing board battles, putting passes into dangerous spots, and being out of position.

 

The PP was doing really well in the beginning of the season, and it's a big reason they won games. For some reason Hughes isn't moving around the line like he was and overall the movement of players and the puck is slower. Too many times where the players receive the puck and stop it before passing or shooting, giving the opposition time to intercept or block passes. Now they aren't scoring on the PP, because teams have figured out how to play against their PP. The PK was never great, but now it's becoming a liability as it sinks further down to 25th. Combine a terrible PK and a rapidly declining PP and it's starting to cost them games. 

 

What's happened to Elias Pettersson who seems to really stalled. Is it because teams are playing harder against him now? He was essentially invisible in the New Jersey game.

 

Watching the Andrei Kuzmenko and Coach Tocchet conflict is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Tocchet doesnt seem to know how to coach Kuzmenko. He seems to be trying to make Kuzmenko into a player he is not, and doesn't know how to help out of his slump. It's clear that Kuzmenko is struggling mentally to play with confidence. Tocchet's ego is getting in the way and the result is going to be a really talented player either leaving Vancouver in a trade or ending up scoring 1/2 the goals they scored last year despite the team scoring the most goals in the NHL this year. Very disappointing how Tocchet is handling the situation. He doesn't seem to realize how hard it is to find / keep an almost 40 goal scorer.

 

I know it's only been two games, but I'm really not liking what I'm seeing from Nikita Zadorov. He looks slow and lost out there. He's big, but if he keeps making amateur passes and allowing players to skate around him, then the trade will be a fail. He also has disrupted the team chemistry and I'm not sure how / if that will change for the better.

 

I think that what's happened is that teams thought the Canucks would be average, so weren't prepared for a better structured and rejuvenated team. The result was a great start. Now teams are very aware of the Canuck's record, and they are playing to take down the Canucks this year.

 

Now it's up to the Coaching staff and the players to adapt to the new reality that teams are more prepared for the 2023 Canucks.  The team's playing 500 hockey again and that won't be enough to get them into the playoffs, so they'll have to work harder to keep their structure, speed, and confidence.

[Ghostsof1915]

Or bring in players that suit the style of play that we are doing?

[AnotherCanucksFan]

4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Or bring in players that suit the style of play that we are doing?

To bring in players, we will have to trade players. So who do we trade and who can we bring in? Do we trade Petey because he's not strong enough? Do we trade Kuzmenko because he's struggling to score? Who can we get who will replace all those goals? IF we got Kuzmenko going, that could win us games and he might have more energy to play harder on the boards and so on. 

[kilgore]

9 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So what's the solution? Teams that have States with low taxes have to pay a "Equalization tax?" I was looking at California, they pay similar but slightly less taxes (About 8% less) than here in BC.

 

If you look at it, cap ruled pro sports leagues have teams owned by billionaire owners is odd.  Its a weird mix of socialism inside a capitalist system.  Like the need for regulations and anti-trust laws overseeing the financial markets or we get recessions like in 2008 when Wall Street bent the rules and played with other peoples money like they were in a casino.

 

The league saw the wisdom in a cap-based league, in order for all teams to be able to compete. That way a poor loser single billionaire could compete with a muiti billionaire.  As well fans, theoretically, wouldn't have to wait too long to see their own team's success

 

But why not go further then?  If you are already putting your thumb on the scales to even out competition, then why not just push the equality, socialist, system more?  Like base the cap on net income, post taxes?  And while you're at it, factor in where the exchange rates are on Sept. 1st or another set date,  between the two countries .  (Which would mean you'd need wealthier or more generous Canadian owners than American owners to make the most of it, which might be a problem)

 

We know why not I guess, the Canadian teams would suddenly be in a position to be more competition to Bettman's southern American favourite teams.

 

But sometimes I wish if they aren't going to go all egalitarian like I suggested, then go back to the full cap-free, dog eat dog capitalist past system.  Because all you'd need is one hockey passionate, competitive, egotistical, ultra-wealthy owner to outspend the smaller market towns. And as one of the major Canadian cities, we'd probably spend enough to be in that club of perennial competitors.

 

Either go full socialist or capitalist.  Right now this quasi-equalization is not working for Canadian cities.

[Captkirk888]

12 hours ago, 1-d said:

PGT too little too late? 

 

Just like our comeback attempt tonight.

Actually that’s wrong. They were not too late, they came back from  3 down to tie it. The too little part, that is true because upon reaching that point they seemed to be content to back off and let time run out. They should have kept the pedal to the metal. The fact that they showed the resiliency to battle back is encouraging but then backing off is disheartening.

A bit redundant here, but,THEY NEED TO FINISH!
I am a life long fan and it is very hard at times to cheer them on, but that is what being a fan is about.

The wet blankets that come on here only to critique and say ‘I told you so’ when the team is not on the right side of winning are not the definition of a fan. 

[Strawbone]

If the Canucks play exactly .500 hockey the rest of the season, they end up with 89 points. 3 games above .500 gets them to 95 points, which is pretty much a lock for the playoffs, no?  They wouldn't have much momentum with that kind of record the rest of the way, but man I'm so hungry for Canucks playoff hockey that I'd gladly take it over missing out by a few points.

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Strawbone said:

If the Canucks play exactly .500 hockey the rest of the season, they end up with 89 points. 3 games above .500 gets them to 95 points, which is pretty much a lock for the playoffs, no?  They wouldn't have much momentum with that kind of record the rest of the way, but man I'm so hungry for Canucks playoff hockey that I'd gladly take it over missing out by a few points.

It would be more of a lock with 101 points. Just my comfort zone. But that's only 6 games above .500 which should be doable.

[Ghostsof1915]

Maybe it's time for an old fashioned "Players only meeting"? Get everyone back on the same page?

[Elias Pettersson]

In all of this Petey hate, people have forgotten that we found our new top 6 forward last night in Nils Höglander. 
 

This is a huge positive for the team. It means no more PDG in the top 6. 
 

If Kuzmenko could ever learn how to forecheck our top 6 would be complete. 

[LaBamba]

10 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

—————

 

edit :

 

*damn it, I forgot @Coconuts @Devron. Two of my faves.

 

And I remembered his name!!!

@Roberts @Roberts @Roberts!
 

if I say his name two more times, he will appear in the mirror behind me.

 

——————-
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

Some people hide weird stuff like sexual stuff. (Getting pee or pooped on). 
Some people hide drug or alcohol problems. 
some people hide weird birth defects. 
some people hide weird habits like picking your nose and flicking it places.  
 

I actually hide all of the above, but I also hide my dislike for EP40. 
 

I don’t know what it is about him. It’s like he is always disgusted. There is just something about his face. It always looks like he is doing us all a favour by his presence. 
 

And you know what? If you aren’t sure you want to sign long term and you keep fiddle fucking around till you become a ufa then leave now while you’re worth something cause I’m sick of looking at your face anyway. We could probably get a ridiculous haul, but that doesn’t always work out. As per Calgary flames. 

[RWJC]

2 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

thanks my man. Appreciate all the articles you posted, and sharing your chat with PA. You are a CFF legend, in my books.

Haha thanks Very kind words. And back at ya. You always provide solid and fair takes and positivity. Huge asset to the forum!!!

[Captkirk888]

12 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Roster is better but still lacking key pieces. 
 

Team composition still needs to improve. 
 

Among other things. 
 

Gonna be an interesting offseason. Hopefully they get some playoff experience.
 

Petey(especially) and Kuz need to turn their situations around before things really start to plummet. 
 

This roster isn’t gonna win as many games defensively as they will offensively. 
 

Give Demko a bit of a rest and reset next game. 

Alll good points dog and I agree. This dialogue is sensible and thoughtful.

I think some people need to realize that we are only 26 games into a season that has been beyond what I believe many of us expected from this team. Every season has its peaks and valleys, no team is going 82-0.

i am tired of the ‘doom and gloomers’ that for whatever reason can just not be happy. 
 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Captkirk888

[AnotherCanucksFan]

4 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

If the Canucks play exactly .500 hockey the rest of the season, they end up with 89 points. 3 games above .500 gets them to 95 points, which is pretty much a lock for the playoffs, no?  They wouldn't have much momentum with that kind of record the rest of the way, but man I'm so hungry for Canucks playoff hockey that I'd gladly take it over missing out by a few points.

I think my point is that if they start settling for losing against the good teams and feasting on the bad teams, it's not a recipe for success. Additionally, they were so far ahead in the beginning of the season that they were above the pressure, but now the Kings are pushing ahead of them and the pressure will only increase. Atm, they have buckled under pressure. As Tocchet said - meet pressure with pressure. That is the key in my opinion - can the Canucks meet pressure with pressure or just be average enough to reach the playoffs and then lose in the 1st round. 

 

The reality is that pressure will increase as get closer to the end, will they have firmed up the good habits and played with structure or will they have allowed themselves to play .500 hockey and live with bad habits. I think the next 15 games will determine which path they choose.

[AnotherCanucksFan]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

In all of this Petey hate, people have forgotten that we found our new top 6 forward last night in Nils Höglander. 
 

This is a huge positive for the team. It means no more PDG in the top 6. 
 

If Kuzmenko could ever learn how to forecheck our top 6 would be complete. 

 

Höglander is playing well. I do think the Coaching staff has screwed up on managing PDG and Kuzmenko. Figure out how to get those two players going again and it would dramatically change the win column. 

It's one of those things, where we had solid lines so everything clicked, but now one player on several lines isn't working and it's impacting the flow of every line. 

[Captkirk888]

1 minute ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

I think my point is that if they start settling for losing against the good teams and feasting on the bad teams, it's not a recipe for success. Additionally, they were so far ahead in the beginning of the season that they were above the pressure, but now the Kings are pushing ahead of them and the pressure will only increase. Atm, they have buckled under pressure. As Tocchet said - meet pressure with pressure. That is the key in my opinion - can the Canucks meet pressure with pressure or just be average enough to reach the playoffs and then lose in the 1st round. 

 

The reality is that pressure will increase as get closer to the end, will they have firmed up the good habits and played with structure or will they have allowed themselves to play .500 hockey and live with bad habits. I think the next 15 games will determine which path they choose.

See my post directly above yours. ^
Did you expect the Canucks to even be in this position before the season started?

Let’s be real, this team is still clearly building and needs more parts to contend. I don’t expect anything past a first round, but I’ll enjoy the ride if it goes further.

cheers.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

 

Höglander is playing well. I do think the Coaching staff has screwed up on managing PDG and Kuzmenko. Figure out how to get those two players going again and it would dramatically change the win column. 

It's one of those things, where we had solid lines so everything clicked, but now one player on several lines isn't working and it's impacting the flow of every line. 

PDG is what he is. You will always get hard work from him. But is he really a full time NHL calibre player? I think it's great to give him a chance.

Part of it he's on a cheap cap hit. Bang for the buck factor is there.

I just hope Kuz can find the right balance of forecheck and offence.

[Blue]

I'm gonna mark this one down as a scheduled loss. NJ was better than their recent results. 

 

Parity is huge in this league now. But i think we have the horses to rise above it. 

 

It's still unfortunate that we can't even get a point in these games. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Tocchet ripped into the players, but at the end of the day the biggest mistake last night was playing Demko. He looked tired. Tocchet should have went with DeSmith. 
 

Not sure why DeSmith isn’t getting more playing time. Playing Demko 4 games in a row when he lost 2 of them is not good goalie management. 
 

This loss is on Tocchet IMO. He likes to rip my little Kuzy at every opportunity, but Tocchet needs to be a man and take the L on this one. 
 

100% DeSmith needs to start the next game. 

[AnotherCanucksFan]

1 minute ago, Captkirk888 said:

See my post directly above yours. ^
Did you expect the Canucks to even be in this position before the season started?

Let’s be real, this team is still clearly building and needs more parts to contend. I don’t expect anything past a first round, but I’ll enjoy the ride if it goes further.

cheers.

 

Fair enough. In my opinion, we have several of the pieces that we need on our team already, but mentally they're struggling, so it's impacting the entire team's chemistry. 

That being said, we def need some more parts. I think Meyers has played better than last year, but he's still awkward and too slow mentally under pressure. He cracks under pressure too easily, so he needs to go.  Soucy was helping us, so his injury is an issue. Losing him started destabilizing our D group. I'm not sure if Zadorov is going to help us, so far not impressed at all. Juulson doesn't seem to be doing much. I'm not sure about Blueger? How is he helping us?