PGT - Devils at Canucks - 12/05/2023

[Juice]

35 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Cole: 4/10 really struggled and lost his man that led to a goal. 

 

I stated this earlier in the thread but I post it again:

 

Dakota Joshua cost that goal.

 

Here's the play by play:

 

Cole passing it up to Joshua on the boards to clear. Joshua isn't able to do so being pressured from behind and the puck makes it's way to the point. Joshua is following his man back towards the net, gives him a little tap with the stick and then let's him go! Now Joshua is standing in no man's land covering nobody holding his dick. His man comes around the back of the net and pots in the rebound.

 

Everyone is covering their man except for him.

 

Sure, we can say the "failed clear" is what did it. But Cole is trusting Joshua to do his job here. And not once but twice did he fail to do so.

 

Either way, I don't expect to see Joshua out in the final minute of a close game again any time soon. No doubt Tocchet is kicking himself for that one.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Juice

[Rip The Mesh]

17 minutes ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

 

The difference with Myers is consistentcy.  I've always rooted for the big guy but for us to get to the next level we need to move on from him.  

 

Here's Hansen saying it best.

 

 

 

Jannick Hansen is bang on on almost everything he saw last night. We gotta get him over here! Hell; Maybe he's here already!  Yah never know...

[Rip The Mesh]

56 minutes ago, Blue said:

It's December. We don't really want the President's Trophy do we ? So win/loss/win/loss .500 hockey is fine for now. 

As long as we get in the show! Can you imagine getting to the second or even third round! Wouldn't be no Damn bubble either. It's still eons away till

the trade deadline and Alvin and Ruth might knock a home run or two. C,ya Tyler..

[Viking]

40 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

What did Myers do more wrong than Hronek or Cole in that game?

Tanev replace Cole is the most likely.

The team could get a ransom for Hronek right now.

 

And then posters could get the other Huggy Bear, the Bear man, Bear back, if he can play.

 

FYI, Myers and Zadorov were the best two defencemen on the ice last night. On the ice for only ONE goal against.

 

Demko sucked in the first period. Miller peeled off too soon on the first goal leaving his check wide open in front of the net.

Hughes got out muscled twice in close.

Hronek was just awful all night

Cole his age and looked tired

 

Tocchet really hates Kuzmenko essentially deflecting the loss to his performance. but Miller was on for all those too.

 

I hope fans take into consideration that this team played and won 4 games against the worst two teams in the league at the time.

 

Regardless that was enough to make the playoffs. They only need to play .500 hockey.

And Rutherford/Allvin still haven't finished

 

After Demko's bad start and the rest of the team got going the come back was good to see.

Crazy to think this is all on the fault of Demko...yes 4g on 8 shots is not good but where was his teammates defending...can't have both D leaving the net front open or F's not getting their man or poor back checking

 

Cole needs to be on the bottom pair and then PK. Split up Hughes and Hronek yes they can play well in the O Zone but they BOTH are weak on the puck and need a stronger defensive D partner in my opinion so split them up!

 

Hughes Zadorov/someone else

Zadorov/insert player name Hronek

 

Canucks still need a long term D partner for Hughes, we seem reluctant to play a left shot D on the right side but once Soucy is back it is gonna have to happen. Try Zadorov with Hughes and play give both a chance to play the right side and leave whoever is more comfortable on the right side.

 

Again, if we don't have Demko we are a rebuilding team in my opinion. Time to give DeSmith a start tomorrow probably and let Demko have some more time with Ian Clark?!?

[Miss Korea]

1 minute ago, Viking said:

Crazy to think this is all on the fault of Demko...yes 4g on 8 shots is not good but where was his teammates defending...can't have both D leaving the net front open or F's not getting their man or poor back checking

 

Cole needs to be on the bottom pair and then PK. Split up Hughes and Hronek yes they can play well in the O Zone but they BOTH are weak on the puck and need a stronger defensive D partner in my opinion so split them up!

 

Hughes Zadorov/someone else

Zadorov/insert player name Hronek

 

Canucks still need a long term D partner for Hughes, we seem reluctant to play a left shot D on the right side but once Soucy is back it is gonna have to happen. Try Zadorov with Hughes and play give both a chance to play the right side and leave whoever is more comfortable on the right side.

 

Again, if we don't have Demko we are a rebuilding team in my opinion. Time to give DeSmith a start tomorrow probably and let Demko have some more time with Ian Clark?!?

 

You really think Hughes and Hronek are poor defenders...?

 

   

 

We still have Juulsen playing only 10 minutes per game.  It'll be the same thing if Friedman slots in.  Obviously the rest of our defenders have to do double duty until Soucy comes back and their performance will suffer for a bit.

[AatuD2]

25 minutes ago, Juice said:

 

I stated this earlier in the thread but I post it again:

 

Dakota Joshua cost that goal.

 

Here's the play by play:

 

Cole passing it up to Joshua on the boards to clear. Joshua isn't able to do so being pressured from behind and the puck makes it's way to the point. Joshua is following his man back towards the net, gives him a little tap with the stick and then let's him go! Now Joshua is standing in no man's land covering nobody holding his dick. His man comes around the back of the net and pots in the rebound.

 

Everyone is covering their man except for him.

 

Sure, we can say the "failed clear" is what did it. But Cole is trusting Joshua to do his job here. And not once but twice did he fail to do so.

 

Either way, I don't expect to see Joshua out in the final minute of a close game again any time soon. No doubt Tocchet is kicking himself for that one.

 

Oh I was talking about the Jack Hughes goal that happened off the lost faceoff. 

 

I think we're talking about a different goal, right? 

[Strawbone]

1 hour ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

I think my point is that if they start settling for losing against the good teams and feasting on the bad teams, it's not a recipe for success. Additionally, they were so far ahead in the beginning of the season that they were above the pressure, but now the Kings are pushing ahead of them and the pressure will only increase. Atm, they have buckled under pressure. As Tocchet said - meet pressure with pressure. That is the key in my opinion - can the Canucks meet pressure with pressure or just be average enough to reach the playoffs and then lose in the 1st round. 

 

The reality is that pressure will increase as get closer to the end, will they have firmed up the good habits and played with structure or will they have allowed themselves to play .500 hockey and live with bad habits. I think the next 15 games will determine which path they choose.

 

Fair points. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if the weather in Vancouver has a real effect on players. It's so damn dark and gloomy for a few months. It's not so bad to start the season, or at the end, but the middle few months are just... blah. I have to think waking up in sunny California or Florida gives you a little boost.

[Juice]

2 hours ago, JamesB said:

You might be right about Joshua. But I still think Cole could have taken a safer play to clear the puck, like a high "lob" that does not go all the way for icing. Even another icing would have been better.  Instead he basically passed the puck into a puck battle. At that stage in the game I don't think that was the right play. But I am not a coach and I might have the wrong take.

I've watched the replay in slow mo probably a dozen times.

 

Given where Cole was in the corner with the coverage on him, the pass to Dakota WAS the safer play. His stick in tight and pressure on him, he would get no leverage to go for the big wrister required to clear on his own. And regardless, Cole needs to be able trust his teammates when he needs a little help in the dzone, too.

 

Problem is Joshua went in to retrieve on the boards with almost zero effort just gliding in. By the time he gets there his man pinches him into the boards...and using his ass no less. Now Joshua can't get a stick on it. And even if we say that little moment is forgivable (because losing a puck battle happens), Joshua letting his man go behind the net, standing in no man's land puck watching and covering nobody is absolutely not.

 

Watch the replay.  Lol.  First he tries to cover Petey's man, and then Cole's! He has absolutely no idea where's supposed to be or what to do. That was the moment.

 

That was what cost the goal.

[Steamer4GM]

7 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

LET'S JUST GET OUT OF DECEMBER!!

December just started and we have lots of home games. WTF are you 2 on about?

[Rip The Mesh]

Becoming a growing concern to many. He has spent plenty of time on the Canucks first line and plenty of powerplay time what's changed?

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Rip The Mesh

[Hairy Kneel]

5 minutes ago, Steamer4GM said:

December just started and we have lots of home games. WTF are you 2 on about?

Survival mode. We should be in panic mode. Especially if we lose Demko, his top game,  we could be in trouble. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

I don't understand why they'd put two Giraffes together? Additionally, Meyer is not a reliable player so why put the pressure of having to keep things stable while Zadorov gets familiar with the Canucks system. 

 

Maybe the Canucks can get their money back.

 

 

[Steamer4GM]

6 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I guess this is the problem with the core, they can't seem to rise to the occasion.

 

 

[R3aL]

12 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

 

I was at the game tonight. The 3rd period comeback was great to see and then the Devils' winning goal with half a minute left was a huge letdown. 

 

Here are some of the key points from my point of view.

 

1. The Devils scored 4 goals on their first 8 shots, seemingly putting the game out of reach early. I wouldn't "blame" Demko for any of the goals, but he did not look sharp tonight. Most nights he stops one or two or maybe three of the 6 that went in. And his rebound control was shakey. The D in front of him was not good but his expected goals number was about 3.5 and his actual goals number was 6 so he had about 2.5 more goals allowed than expected. This is an unusually poor number for that stat--the worst of the season for Demmer.  

 

2. If Demmer is his usual self, I think the Canucks win this game. The Canucks won the expected goals battle. 

 

3. The D in front of Demmer was not good enough. The Myers -- Zadorov pair struggled and that was largely due to Myers. A Myers giveaway led to the second goal (although Zadorov was out of position) and Myers had poor underlying stats overall.  Juulsen was okay and is getting the most out of his talent level. The problem is that his talent level is not very high and he played only 10 minutes tonight. Hronek has looked very good with Hughes this year. But part of that is due to Hughes. With other partners I would say that Hronek looks "good" but I would not a lot further. Cole's inability to clear the puck or exit the zone hurt the team and was a key reason the Canucks could not get the game to OT. We need a bounceback from the D as a group next game. 

 

4. Hoglander was excellent by the eye test, scored a nice goal, and was +2. And he had the best underlying stats on the team. Shots were 10-1 for the Canucks with him on the ice and he scored a nice goal. 

 

5. The forwards as a group were pretty good, except for Kuzmenko. The line of Miller, Boeser and Kuzy struggled, while the line of Miller, Boeser and Hogs dominated.  Boeser continues to play well and it was nice to see him extend his league lead in goals scored.  

Agree on demmer

 

-

 

Dont think the expected goals stats tell the proper story of that game though.

 

-

 

I really dont want to see Z with Myers anymore. I dont want Myers to ruin Z here for us.

 

I thought all the D tonight outside of Hughes and Juulsen in his sheltered minutes had a tough game.

 

Hronek / Cole / Myers were all not good enough

 

I will give Z a pass because hes learning our system and playing with Myers.

 

The breakdown that lead to the rotation of Cole on the right side with Hronek and the weak clear when everything was in scramble mode and Hronek going up high aggressively with 30 seconds left all was tough. I wasn't impressed with both of them on the play which stinks because I have been advocating to see them as a pairing to see what we have with Hronek.

 

Cole-Hronek or Zadorov-Hronek I would really like to see so we can know what we have in Hronek if Hughes was hurt, or just if we wanted to balance the pairs better.

 

-

 

Hoglander was a huge driver for us loved his game the most.

 

- 

 

Last time Hoglander played with Boeser and Miller they were pretty good. And now all three players are improved so would love an extended look at it.

[R3aL]

13 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

—————

 

edit :

 

*damn it, I forgot @Coconuts @Devron. Two of my faves.

 

And I remembered his name!!!

@Roberts @Roberts @Roberts!
 

if I say his name two more times, he will appear in the mirror behind me.

 

——————-
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

I dont think hes Luke warm on staying here I think his contract status of being an RFA and with the cap rising it wouldn't be smart to have signed before the season played out or at least part way.

 

And last year was an absolute circus so I think him not being in a rush to sign is nothing but in his best interest and makes sense.

 

-

 

I would agree hes not been playing his best right now. But I am confident hes going to figure it out. I wouldn't want to trade him he would be incredibly difficult to replace andsis a very rare player who still is growing as a player.

 

Happy belated! and that was a heartbreaking finish for us for sure.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

You really think Hughes and Hronek are poor defenders...?

 

   

 

We still have Juulsen playing only 10 minutes per game.  It'll be the same thing if Friedman slots in.  Obviously the rest of our defenders have to do double duty until Soucy comes back and their performance will suffer for a bit.

 

No one could watch last night's game and say, for that game, they weren't awful......hronek especially 

Edited December 6, 2023 by stawns

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Becoming a growing concern to many. He has spent plenty of time on the Canucks first line and plenty of powerplay time what's changed?

 

a quote from Patterson is just his attempt to become an arsonist.

 

Kuz is being asked to change his game by Tochett.

When Its not necessarily “his game” that is the issue.

 

If I was RT ,.
 I’d tell him to go out there and just do what’s natural, have fun ( which is how he performs best ), but keep in mind the points brought up in Video sessions.

 

some players perform their best when left to do what they do best .

Kuz is probably on his heels thinking more about positional mistakes than engaging in his own fashion.

He has a great year last season,.  
nothing needed to change that.

 

Its the other areas of this team that need or needed addressing and they are being dealt with.

 

If Boeser can be gifted 2-3 years to find his game again..  what’s fair about being fair.

 

 

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

If Vegas were to acquire and pay Pettersson 10M he'd only pay $3,660,332

 

If the Canucks were to pay Pettersson 10M he'd pay $5,302,932 in tax 

 

The Canucks have to pay more in terms of dollars and cap space for Pettersson to get the same dollar value 

 

That's a difference of $1,642,600 per season 

 

If the Canucks had somehow acquired Tkachuk and given him 9.5M instead of Florida he'd pay $5,035,432 a year in tax

 

Instead, he pays $3,475,332 a year in tax, a difference of $1,560,100 a season

 

Play around with it, the Canucks aren't going to get the favourable contracts tax free states will https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/

...............and yet Miller signed for 8 and Hughes 7.8. I don't want a team that has the most highest paid players I want a team that wants to play as a team.

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, R3aL said:

Agree on demmer

 

-

 

Dont think the expected goals stats tell the proper story of that game though.

 

-

 

I really dont want to see Z with Myers anymore. I dont want Myers to ruin Z here for us.

 

I thought all the D tonight outside of Hughes and Juulsen in his sheltered minutes had a tough game.

 

Hronek / Cole / Myers were all not good enough

 

I will give Z a pass because hes learning our system and playing with Myers.

 

The breakdown that lead to the rotation of Cole on the right side with Hronek and the weak clear when everything was in scramble mode and Hronek going up high aggressively with 30 seconds left all was tough. I wasn't impressed with both of them on the play which stinks because I have been advocating to see them as a pairing to see what we have with Hronek.

 

Cole-Hronek or Zadorov-Hronek I would really like to see so we can know what we have in Hronek if Hughes was hurt, or just if we wanted to balance the pairs better.

 

-

 

Hoglander was a huge driver for us loved his game the most.

 

- 

 

Last time Hoglander played with Boeser and Miller they were pretty good. And now all three players are improved so would love an extended look at it.

 

We probably should have added a pick and a prospect and gotten Tanev from the Flames as well.  Give them Garland in return...

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

a quote from Patterson is just his attempt to become an arsonist.

 

Kuz is being asked to change his game by Tochett.

When Its not necessarily “his game” that is the issue.

 

If I was RT ,.
 I’d tell him to go out there and just do what’s natural, have fun ( which is how he performs best ), but keep in mind the points brought up in Video sessions.

 

some players perform their best when left to do what they do best .

Kuz is probably on his heels thinking more about positional mistakes than engaging in his own fashion.

He has a great year last season,.  
nothing needed to change that.

 

Its the other areas of this team that need or needed addressing and they are being dealt with.

 

If Boeser can be gifted 2-3 years to find his game again..  what’s fair about being fair.

 

 

 

I agree.  Kuzmenko is skating on eggshells right now.  He's so worried about the little things that he is not focused on what he does best, which is score goals.  What is the benefit of making Kuzmenko a great defensive player if he is only scoring 10 goals?  People say that Kuzmenko needs to play like everyone else and play into the system.  So is Dakota Joshua capable of scoring 40 goals?  What about Blueger, Suter, Garland, Hoglander, Mikheyev, etc?  At the end of the day, we have very few players that are capable of scoring 40 goals.  So why ruin one of those few players?  Makes no sense.

 

I don't see Kaprizov or Kucherov playing great defensive hockey.  Is Pastrnak some defensive dynamo?  I hate seeing a player get ruined.  

 

#FreeKuzy

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

...............and yet Miller signed for 8 and Hughes 7.8. I don't want a team that has the most highest paid players I want a team that wants to play as a team.

 

Let's not ignore context. Miller signed under market value, absolutely, but Hughes didn't.

 

Hughes signed his current deal on Oct. 1, 2021, before going on to smash his career high of 53 points. Hughes got a 7.8M extension for what he'd done at the time. 

 

Over the course of this contract he's put up 68, 76, and currently 36 points in 26. You don't think he's also going to cash in once this current deal is up? 

 

Folks are fussing a lot about Pettersson right now, I can't wait to see how they fuss once it's time to pay the piper with Hughes. 

[Coconuts]

It's silly, folks love having premier talents but fuss about top of the league talents getting top of the league dollars. If anything, factoring how the cap will rise over the remainder of Hughes's deal, he'll probably end up making more than Pettersson. 

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, Juice said:

 

I stated this earlier in the thread but I post it again:

 

Dakota Joshua cost that goal.

 

Here's the play by play:

 

Cole passing it up to Joshua on the boards to clear. Joshua isn't able to do so being pressured from behind and the puck makes it's way to the point. Joshua is following his man back towards the net, gives him a little tap with the stick and then let's him go! Now Joshua is standing in no man's land covering nobody holding his dick. His man comes around the back of the net and pots in the rebound.

 

Everyone is covering their man except for him.

 

Sure, we can say the "failed clear" is what did it. But Cole is trusting Joshua to do his job here. And not once but twice did he fail to do so.

 

Either way, I don't expect to see Joshua out in the final minute of a close game again any time soon. No doubt Tocchet is kicking himself for that one.

 

Who are you going to play?  It wasn't one bad shift from one player.  It was a mess that immediately started with the faceoff following the 5-5 goal.  They poured it on us.  Joshua wasn't the only one making the mistake.  If anything, Myers looked the very worst in that 3 minute span.  But that's too much time to shorten the bench.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Let's not ignore context. Miller signed under market value, absolutely, but Hughes didn't.

 

Hughes signed his current deal on Oct. 1, 2021, before going on to smash his career high of 53 points. Hughes got a 7.8M extension for what he'd done at the time. 

 

Over the course of this contract he's put up 68, 76, and currently 36 points in 26. You don't think he's also going to cash in once this current deal is up? 

 

Folks are fussing a lot about Pettersson right now, I can't wait to see how they fuss once it's time to pay the piper with Hughes. 

 

Exactly.  People forget BOTH Pettersson and Hughes held out of training camp for their current contracts.  They both have the same agent.  I can pretty much guarantee that whatever is happening with Petey now, the same thing will happen with Hughes.  Do people think Hughes will take less than $11 million when he is scoring 100 points and maybe wins the Norris?  Do people think Hughes will take the big hometown discount for the team?  The same vultures that are after Petey right now are also going to turn on Hughes as well when his contract is up.  Haters gonna hate...

[JamesB]

21 minutes ago, R3aL said:

Agree on demmer

 

-

 

Dont think the expected goals stats tell the proper story of that game though.

 

-

 

I really dont want to see Z with Myers anymore. I dont want Myers to ruin Z here for us.

 

I thought all the D tonight outside of Hughes and Juulsen in his sheltered minutes had a tough game.

 

Hronek / Cole / Myers were all not good enough

 

I will give Z a pass because hes learning our system and playing with Myers.

 

The breakdown that lead to the rotation of Cole on the right side with Hronek and the weak clear when everything was in scramble mode and Hronek going up high aggressively with 30 seconds left all was tough. I wasn't impressed with both of them on the play which stinks because I have been advocating to see them as a pairing to see what we have with Hronek.

 

Cole-Hronek or Zadorov-Hronek I would really like to see so we can know what we have in Hronek if Hughes was hurt, or just if we wanted to balance the pairs better.

 

-

 

Hoglander was a huge driver for us loved his game the most.

 

- 

 

Last time Hoglander played with Boeser and Miller they were pretty good. And now all three players are improved so would love an extended look at it.

100% on target.

 

Agree on Hronek. He has been putting up great numbers and looking good as well, playing with Hughes. And some people have been talking about a cap hit of 8 to 9 million.

 

But Hronek has to show he is a premium D by driving a good top 4 pairing, not just by riding shotgun for Hughes -- a spot where anyone can look good.

 

Based on his play without Hughes, I would see 6 to 7 million as a reasonable cap hit and closer to 6 than 7.

 

I like the idea of Zadorov-Hronek. On paper they look good. Let's what we have with both of them.