PGT - Devils at Canucks - 12/05/2023

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

How's Connor Bedard on the forecheck?

I don't know, but i do know that Boeser's has improved greatly since RT came along.

[Goose]

Expecting your FWDs to forecheck hard isnt an unfair expectation imo.  Any Canuck  regardless of skillset can and should do that.  That’s how you want your team to play. 

 

The whole Tocchett narrative stifling Kuz because of defensive expectations is silly imo.  He’s been very explicit about understanding the strengths of his players.  That said, being a floater doesnt let you of the hook for basic team play expectations.  

 

Boeser has been one of the best stories so far about embracing RT’s philosophy.

[AnthonyG]

Kuzmenko needs to shit or get off the pot.

shoot the fucking puck. Idk how many times he stick handles the puck waiting for an opening to thread the needle. He gets a pass and stops then takes a step, stick handles it a few times and then is trying to decide if the shot is worth taking and then waits a brief moment and costs himself time and space and then has to move the puck. He never onetimes it, he always has to handle the puck first and its costing him opportunities.

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Exactly.  People forget BOTH Pettersson and Hughes held out of training camp for their current contracts.  They both have the same agent.  I can pretty much guarantee that whatever is happening with Petey now, the same thing will happen with Hughes.  Do people think Hughes will take less than $11 million when he is scoring 100 points and maybe wins the Norris?  Do people think Hughes will take the big hometown discount for the team?  The same vultures that are after Petey right now are also going to turn on Hughes as well when his contract is up.  Haters gonna hate...

 

Like, what are they gonna do.. not pay him? That's ridiculous, he's the best D we've ever had and will get paid as such. Quinn also watched Jack get locked in early, and lose out on millions in the process, he's gonna get his bag. 

 

Quinn sat out once, you're right, people are quick to forget. Why wouldn't he play hardball again? Like Pettersson, he'll likely have the Canucks by the balls. Dahlin, in 2023, just signed for 11M per, Hughes still has three more years on his deal. Cap is going up 4.2M in the off season, are folks expecting him to take 11M after another three off seasons of cap increases? 

 

Folks should thank their lucky stars we actually have top tier talents who've performed well enough to command the big dollars. We're really not that far from our own decade of darkness, all one has to do is go back 3-8 years and look at the Canucks rosters to see it could be a helluva lot worse. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Coconuts

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Like, what are they gonna do.. not pay him? That's ridiculous, he's the best D we've ever had and will get paid as such. Quinn also watched Jack get locked in early, and lose out on millions in the process, he's gonna get his bag. 

 

Quinn sat out once, you're right, people are quick to forget. Why wouldn't he play hardball again? Like Pettersson, he'll likely have the Canucks by the balls. Dahlin, in 2023, just signed for 11M per, Hughes still has three more years on his deal. Cap is going up 4.2M in the off season, are folks expecting him to take 11M after another three off seasons of cap increases? 

 

Folks should thank their lucky stars we actually have top tier talents who've performed well enough to command the big dollars. We're really not that far from our own decade of darkness, all one has to do is go back 3-4 years and look at the Canucks rosters to see it could be a helluva lot worse. 

 

I never understand the "hopefully he'll take a team friendly deal" mentality.  That never happens, players will go for and take the max deal they can possibly get.......every time

[Goose]

Id also like to see PDG back in the line up.  He’s rested and will probably look a lot like he did earlier in the season.  That’s probably the thing to manage for him this season-fatigue.  

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I never understand the "hopefully he'll take a team friendly deal" mentality.  That never happens, players will go for and take the max deal they can possibly get.......every time

 

Sometimes players leave money on the table, but more than likely it's not a whole lot. I don't see why folks would expect players to take less than close to max, most people wouldn't if they were in that scenario. 

 

Even folks working blue and white collar jobs are going to take the best offers they can get, athletes typically do the same but on an entirely different scale. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

11 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Sometimes players leave money on the table, but more than likely it's not a whole lot. I don't see why folks would expect players to take less than close to max, most people wouldn't if they were in that scenario. 

 

Even folks working blue and white collar jobs are going to take the best offers they can get, athletes typically do the same but on an entirely different scale. 

I think Burrows 'left money on the table' on one of his deals (not his last contract with us but the one before that) after striking it rich when it was found he had chemistry with the Sedins.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

What did Myers do more wrong than Hronek or Cole in that game?

Tanev replace Cole is the most likely.

The team could get a ransom for Hronek right now.

 

And then posters could get the other Huggy Bear, the Bear man, Bear back, if he can play.

 

FYI, Myers and Zadorov were the best two defencemen on the ice last night. On the ice for only ONE goal against.

 

Demko sucked in the first period. Miller peeled off too soon on the first goal leaving his check wide open in front of the net.

Hughes got out muscled twice in close.

Hronek was just awful all night

Cole his age and looked tired

 

Tocchet really hates Kuzmenko essentially deflecting the loss to his performance. but Miller was on for all those too.

 

I hope fans take into consideration that this team played and won 4 games against the worst two teams in the league at the time.

 

Regardless that was enough to make the playoffs. They only need to play .500 hockey.

And Rutherford/Allvin still haven't finished

 

After Demko's bad start and the rest of the team got going the come back was good to see.

 

Myers wasn't really much worse than those others minus the goal he gave away was very untimely. Cole's was worse. The issue is the hundreds of crap plays and games over the 5 years. It's just unacceptable if you want to win.

 

Tanev doesn't replace Cole. Cole is a LD who could play on the right in a pinch. Tanev is solely a RD. Tanev would replace Myers or Juulsen/Friedman.

 

Hughes wasn't great but he was probably the best. Myers, Hronek, Cole, and Zadorov all sucked. Zadorov made 3 horrific plays that come to mind. Didn't pick up his man and left the danger area in front of the net on the massive Myers gaff for the 2nd goal that blew the game open. Also passed the puck from behind his own net to a Devil right in front for wide open shot, and should have got a penalty for dragging down the Devil player after Myers made another huge gaff. Stat watching doesn't tell the whole story.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[EdgarM]

42 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Let's not ignore context. Miller signed under market value, absolutely, but Hughes didn't.

 

Hughes signed his current deal on Oct. 1, 2021, before going on to smash his career high of 53 points. Hughes got a 7.8M extension for what he'd done at the time. 

 

Over the course of this contract he's put up 68, 76, and currently 36 points in 26. You don't think he's also going to cash in once this current deal is up? 

 

Folks are fussing a lot about Pettersson right now, I can't wait to see how they fuss once it's time to pay the piper with Hughes. 

His brother Jack has a long term contract which he signed last year making 8. I am pretty sure he worth a lot more too but maybe they are not just playing for the money?

[Juice]

24 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Who are you going to play?  It wasn't one bad shift from one player.  It was a mess that immediately started with the faceoff following the 5-5 goal.  They poured it on us.  Joshua wasn't the only one making the mistake.  If anything, Myers looked the very worst in that 3 minute span.  But that's too much time to shorten the bench.

What do you mean who else to play? They've been playing the pants off most their top guys all year. But not there. It's not about  just "one bad shift, but moreso being trusted in those crucial moments- The final minute of a game when the pressure is on.

 

And failing at assignments in REALLY BIG ways can absolutely weaken that trust... especially for those with  shorter leashes, smaller short term contracts who have yet to really show the consistency required to become mainstays.

 

And yes, Myers screwed the pooch hard right before that. Should have been a penalty shot for Hughes and he would have likely ended the game and the Joshua situation being irrelevant.

 

But that didn't happen. What did happen is Joshua missing his assignment at the end and costing them a point.

 

Of course you can go back and say "because this happened that happened" and on and on, and yeah there's plenty of blame to go around for why they were in that 4-1 deficit in the first place.

 

Nevertheless, Joshua fucked up on the play there. Not Cole. That's all that's really being said here.

[EdgarM]

42 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It's silly, folks love having premier talents but fuss about top of the league talents getting top of the league dollars. If anything, factoring how the cap will rise over the remainder of Hughes's deal, he'll probably end up making more than Pettersson. 

Not me, I would much prefer a team like Vegas.

[Juice]

1 hour ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Oh I was talking about the Jack Hughes goal that happened off the lost faceoff. 

 

I think we're talking about a different goal, right? 

 

That wasn't Cole either though.

 

That was Mr. Teddy Bluegar. Lol

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Myers wasn't really much worse than those others minus the goal he gave away was very untimely. Cole's was worse. The issues the hundreds of crap plays and games over the 5 years. It's just unacceptable if you want to win.

 

Tanev doesn't replace Cole. Cole is a LD who could play on the right in a pinch. Tanev is solely a RD. Tanev would replace Myers or Juulsen/Friedman.

 

Hughes wasn't great but he was probably the best. Myers, Hronek, Cole, and Zadorov all sucked. Zadorov made 3 horrific plays that come to mind. Didn't pick up his man and left the danger area in front of the net on the massive Myers gaff for the 2nd goal that blew the game open. Also passed the puck from behind his own net to a Devil right in front for wide open shot, and should have got a penalty for dragging down the Devil player after Myers made another huge gaff. Stat watching doesn't tell the whole story.

Sorry if a player is good enough to be a NHLer, he should be able to make that switch (particularly one of Tanev's calibre).  Would his performance be effected at least a bit?  Sure, Ideally, you want 3 LD & 3 RD.  But frankly, I'd rather have all LEFT side D if they were legitimate NHLers vs 3 rights & 3 lefts if half of them were of Juulsen's ability.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Sorry if a player is good enough to be a NHLer, he should be able to make that switch (particularly one of Tanev's calibre).  Would his performance be effected at least a bit?  Sure, Ideally, you want 3 LD & 3 RD.  But frankly, I'd rather have all LEFT side D if they were legitimate NHLers vs 3 rights & 3 lefts if half of them were of Juulsen's ability.

Great Soviet clubs of the late 60’s - mid 70’s didn’t have any right shot players at all. Great Habs’ clubs of the 70’s played three left shot guys almost the whole game, and then had two more left shot guys supporting them. 
 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Alflives said:

Great Soviet clubs of the late 60’s - mid 70’s didn’t have any right shot players at all. Great Habs’ clubs of the 70’s played three left shot guys almost the whole game, and then had two more left shot guys supporting them. 
 

That's because they were all left wing commies on that team.

[Jaimito]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

I agree.

 

Too much hype surrounding the “Hughes Bowl”. You could tell he wanted to have a big game early and lost track of the system. Hronek got caught having to cover for some poor turnovers.

 

QH didn't perform well in Toronto either. 

He needs to show up when the spotlight is on him.    

[AatuD2]

2 minutes ago, Juice said:

 

That wasn't Cole either though.

 

That was Mr. Teddy Bluegar. Lol

 

 

 

Sure, Cole didn't make any terrible mistakes last night. Him and Juulsen were fairly steady most of the game. 

 

I mainly took issue with the other two D pairings. 

[AatuD2]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That's because they were all left wing commies on that team.

 

[DixonWard]

11 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

You do realize the bulk of those points came during the first 15 games, right?  Pettersson has fallen into a slump ever since.  He doesn't look effective on 5v5 and powerplays right now.  Part of that falls on his wingers performing poorly (hence why Lafferty was brought up), but that doesn't explain why he looks bad on the PP.

 

That doesn't mean we should trade Pettersson.  But you can't frame his current point total like he's maintained a steady level of production throughout.  He has not.

 

 

You can't just keep scratching games.  We've been giving up quite a few goals in our losses lately.  This loss wasn't a one-off situation.

So he was much better in the first 15 games than the last 11.  He still has 9 points in those 11 games.  He is on pace for his best season ever and one of the best seasons ever by a Canuck, and half of this forum wants to trade him.  He has more points per game than Brayden Point, Matthews, Scheifele, Larkin, Crosby, Eichel, Aho, Barkov, Stamkos.  Every player has ebbs and flows in terms of their play and their points.  BTW I did not "frame his current point total like he's maintained a steady level of production throughout", I just said that he is a point per game player and is the 2nd highest scoring centre in the league.  Like many on here, you can't allow strictly positive statements, without adding your expertise and finding some negative.

 

I am a fan and I don't want EP to go anywhere.  Go Canucks Go!

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Kuzmenko needs to shit or get off the pot.

shoot the fucking puck. Idk how many times he stick handles the puck waiting for an opening to thread the needle. He gets a pass and stops then takes a step, stick handles it a few times and then is trying to decide if the shot is worth taking and then waits a brief moment and costs himself time and space and then has to move the puck. He never onetimes it, he always has to handle the puck first and its costing him opportunities.

 

I remember Drance thinking trading him during the deadline last season was the best move for the team. Pretty sure people here would have called him insane 

[GasThomas]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

 

How did he cost them two points when he was on the ice for one goal against?

Did you see what he did in the last minute? 

If you tie that kind of game you have to do the correct play. You cannot give that kind of gift. It doesn't matter he was not on the ice. We lost the possessions in that last minute. 

[kilgore]

59 minutes ago, Tofu_Bud said:

Expecting your FWDs to forecheck hard isnt an unfair expectation imo.  Any Canuck  regardless of skillset can and should do that.  That’s how you want your team to play. 

 

The whole Tocchett narrative stifling Kuz because of defensive expectations is silly imo.  He’s been very explicit about understanding the strengths of his players.  That said, being a floater doesnt let you of the hook for basic team play expectations.  

 

Boeser has been one of the best stories so far about embracing RT’s philosophy.

 

Yup.  While shooting the puck more is important for Kuz.  And also while defensive plays with and without the puck are important as well. The main criticism I hear from RT is that Kuz doesn't forecheck hard enough. Probably grew up in Russia and coddled as the "sniper" and it was understood that he wasn't required to get his mitts dirty. That was someone else's job. I have some sympathy for him and the learning curve, if that's the only way he's understood his game. But on the other hand, its  not rocket science to muck it up in the corners.

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

 

I remember Drance thinking trading him during the deadline last season was the best move for the team. Pretty sure people here would have called him insane 

I suggested we move him last year as well. His skating is what concerned me. Hes explosive out of the corners, but his stride is kinda choppy, he loves  cutting back and forth and using his leg strength while battling to gain the inside lane, but the problem is he relies on that too much to create separation.

[Coconuts]

40 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

His brother Jack has a long term contract which he signed last year making 8. I am pretty sure he worth a lot more too but maybe they are not just playing for the money?

 

Jersey was smart, they locked him in long-term before he blew up, Jack has the best value contract in the league right now 

 

They got him signed Nov. 30, 2021, which was the season he wound up putting up 56 points in 49 games 

 

They bet on him blowing up and he blew up offensively in a spectacular way the following season 

 

Jack will probably have the best deal in the NHL until he's up for a new one 

 

That's more about Jersey taking a calculated gamble and Jack going for the money than Jack being willing to take less 

 

This was the reception at the time https://forum.canucks.com/topic/399334-signing-devils-re-sign-jack-hughes/

Edited December 6, 2023 by Coconuts