PGT - Devils at Canucks - 12/05/2023

[DeNiro]

Well they looked worse after a practice so maybe rest is what they need more right now.

 

It seems to be mental mistakes at this point. Myers just can’t play more than 15-16 minutes without his brain completely evaporating.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by DeNiro

[Strawbone]

4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Brilliant play by Zadorov to abandon the front of the net and go into Myers corner to just watch. Oh and the forward who also just watched and didnt do anything. Yea Myers tried to force a play up the wall, but he sure as hell wasn’t getting any help everyone needs to be held accountable 

No doubt other guys made mistakes too, but Myers literally looked like he didn’t know what team he was on with that play. 

[qwijjibo]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Tried to say this last season.   That the shiny "new" toy,  is far surpassing what he's done so far in this sport.   Was it the EP factor, or just some good old fashioned luck.   Not that he doesn't have value, of course he does.   He's also not getting paid to score close to 40 a season either is he.   

No, his aav I'd pretty much in line with what it should be. People just need to discard the notion that hes a 40 goal guy.  Last season was likely an outlier.  About as likely to happen again as Domi is to repeat his 72 point season 

[DeNiro]

Just now, Strawbone said:

No doubt other guys made mistakes too, but Myers literally looked like he didn’t know what team he was on with that play. 

Speed is still this teams achilles.

 

They panic every time and force plays too fast. They need to get comfortable just eating the puck if there’s no play and not throwing it away.

 

Myers could have easily just reversed it and gotten out of trouble. It’s that extra second they’re not taking to make the right play.

[Nucker67]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Well they looked worse after a practice so maybe rest is what they need more right now.

 

It seems to be mental mistakes at this point. Myers just can’t play more than 15-16 minutes without his brain completely evaporating.

 

 

His brain evaporated early. Like at the end of the 1st with seconds left, he gets a juicy pass in the slot, all alone, TAKE THE SHOT!!!! but Myers decides to set up to play passy-pass with his team mates and time runs out. 

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Nucker67 said:

 

His brain evaporated early. Like at the end of the 1st with seconds left, he gets a juicy pass in the slot, all alone, TAKE THE SHOT!!!! but Myers decides to set up to play passy-pass with his team mates and time runs out. 

 

 

Id actually prefer Myers to not shoot.

 

He’s more likely to injure a teammate than hit the net…

[DownUndaCanuck]

You can see the media want to make Kuzmenko (a former fan favourite) into a coach's doghouse kind of player and it's working sadly, but Tocc is right - he's got to forecheck better. That's why Garland's still somehow on this team and Hoglander is moving up the lineup. Kuzmenko needs to play a bit more like Hoglander to fit in with Rick's team but sadly it's not his style. 

 

I hope we don't trade him, we need purely skilled offensive guys like him and Brock in our top-6. Boeser does look like he tries on the forecheck but Kuzmenko just really isn't there with his skating or hitting whereas everyone in our bottom-6 is. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

49 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He's 25, he's not young anymore.  To me, he just doesn't look happy and he's playing like it.

By comparison, Miller is hitting his prime what...now? Essentially in his late 20's when it started and now he's in his thirties.

 

I wouldn't give up on a 25 year old 100pt (x2 possibly) player.

 

If anything, you hope it means we can drive his cap hit down. When he was scoring at 2PPG and leading the league, there were talks of 12M+ but now he's coming down to Earth I wonder if we can get him at 10-11M? Depends on what his final season number is but if it's likely 100pts+ then he'll probably warrant 11.5M, and if that's the case, we've got a darn good player on our hands. If he drops down to 80-90 points we can surely drive it down to 9-10M and honestly even then, I'd be pretty chuffed. 

 

If Petey's scoring under a PPG over the course of the season then yeah, we've got a problem, but I just don't see that happening.

[CanucksJay]

I was curious about all the odd man chances and poor defensive coverage and decided to look at the goals. 

First goal

Kuz was slow getting in on the forecheck. D rang it around the boards without much pressure. Brock and Hronek lost a 2v1 at the halfwall (I think to Hischier) so cleanly where Bratt was able to receive the puck in full flight and go on a 2 on 1.

 

2nd goal

Myers doing Myers things. So embarrassing because Jack Hughes completely bailed out on that play because he didn't wanna get hit and gave up possession but Myers double clutched and gave it away. 

Zadorov followed Toffoli behind the net and front was wide open. I thought Miller also messed up because he left the middle of the ice but watching a replay of it, this is 100 percent on Myers. Miller went in deep to do a button hook because Myers had full possession and had 2 options. Hard around the glass where we had Boeser or a tough touch pass up the middle to Miller in full flight. Myers did neither. He gave it right back to Hughes and the rest is history. 

3rd goal

Bleuger left his man (Hughes) after the faceoff. 

4th goal

Hughes lost the battle in front of the net

5th goal scramble play on PK. That happens sometimes. 

 

What's funny was the Hughes' parents reaction. Zero emotion yet all 3 kids are lighting it up. 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

By comparison, Miller is hitting his prime what...now? Essentially in his late 20's when it started and now he's in his thirties.

 

I wouldn't give up on a 25 year old 100pt (x2 possibly) player.

 

If anything, you hope it means we can drive his cap hit down. When he was scoring at 2PPG and leading the league, there were talks of 12M+ but now he's coming down to Earth I wonder if we can get him at 10-11M? Depends on what his final season number is but if it's likely 100pts+ then he'll probably warrant 11.5M, and if that's the case, we've got a darn good player on our hands. If he drops down to 80-90 points we can surely drive it down to 9-10M and honestly even then, I'd be pretty chuffed. 

 

If Petey's scoring under a PPG over the course of the season then yeah, we've got a problem, but I just don't see that happening.

I'm guessing he'll want to sign a shorter term contract.  Not sure how many years he's got left before he becomes free agent elibible (still a RFA right now).

[Gawdzukes]

  

9 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Huggy, congrats on your 45th man. Glad it was awesome.  

 

Yeah tough loss, especially after fighting back so hard. On the other hand we're kind of still doing better than we thought. Even with how emotional the game was it's only two points so it's not a huge loss or anything. Definitely will have the team getting stuck in at practice.

 

As far as moving Petey I wouldn't be totally opposed depending on the return. One thing though is he's likely still getting better and unless it's for a real serious #1 blue chipper like a Bedard or say Carlsson/Fantilli + we'd be running a risk of not getting enough value back. Miller is also aging even though he's is playing at an extremely high level. I am so happy with how he's bought in. I'm loving our fourth line, and our 3rd line has been super too, better when Suter is back. Surprisingly it's our top 6 that is letting us down.

 

One other note is that I've always felt next year is where we really start to make our mark. Myers is finally off the books, Cole's contract is done, Blueger is done, Zadorov ... we'll see, and the cap should finally rise. I think that is when we'll finally see the Allvin stamp of what our team will look like. Not certain but our prospects will be a year older and knocking on the door. I say we just keep building on what we're building and we'll build a winner!

Edited December 6, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[DownUndaCanuck]

2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I'm guessing he'll want to sign a shorter term contract.  Not sure how many years he's got left before he becomes free agent elibible (still a RFA right now).

 

I wouldn't be against a bridge, sort of like 3-4 years but it'll cost a bit more. Otherwise we give him a 7-8 year deal to take him to his early-ish 30s and maybe we can get him for a round 10M?

[Ballisticsports]

8 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

If the Canucks were a sub-500 team, I would say entertain the bids from multiple teams and anyone who gives the equivalent of 3-4 1st round picks in prospects and picks, gets him.

 

However, the 2023 Canucks seem to be a playoff team and the front office appears to be competent, so I say give them a chance to put together a Stanley Cup roster.

 

The grass isn't always greener on the other side of a trade.

Yes, especially when the greatest player traded returns didn't exactly work out imo

Gretzky, Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski in exchange for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, three first-round draft picks and cash

 

It would depend on what EP commitment and desire to be a part of this and the cost and term and returns if trading him

I put the team before any player and what makes us a better team, so if any deal makes since I am open minded whatever happens

[CanucksJay]

Just now, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

I wouldn't be against a bridge, sort of like 3-4 years but it'll cost a bit more. Otherwise we give him a 7-8 year deal to take him to his early-ish 30s and maybe we can get him for a round 10M?

Im all for a bridge. 

We hit home runs on the Hughes and Miller contracts. 

It would suck to undo all the good work there by overpaying Petey without him proving himself. 

If he does prove himself and becomes an elite 2 way player, pay the guy but til then pay him what he's worth now.

[RWJC]

8 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

Happy Birthday Huggy!!!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Yes, especially when the greatest player traded returns didn't exactly work out imo

Gretzky, Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski in exchange for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, three first-round draft picks and cash

 

It would depend on what EP commitment and desire to be a part of this and the cost and term and returns if trading him

I put the team before any player and what makes us a better team, so if any deal makes since I am open minded whatever happens

"Superscout" Fraser & co. seemed to hit a big bump on the road after drafting all those superstars.  Maybe Gillis was their consultant?

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

By comparison, Miller is hitting his prime what...now? Essentially in his late 20's when it started and now he's in his thirties.

 

I wouldn't give up on a 25 year old 100pt (x2 possibly) player.

 

If anything, you hope it means we can drive his cap hit down. When he was scoring at 2PPG and leading the league, there were talks of 12M+ but now he's coming down to Earth I wonder if we can get him at 10-11M? Depends on what his final season number is but if it's likely 100pts+ then he'll probably warrant 11.5M, and if that's the case, we've got a darn good player on our hands. If he drops down to 80-90 points we can surely drive it down to 9-10M and honestly even then, I'd be pretty chuffed. 

 

If Petey's scoring under a PPG over the course of the season then yeah, we've got a problem, but I just don't see that happening.

 

I don't want the Canucks to follow EDM and TO's model, even if it means my favourite player on the team leaves.

 

And, he may very well want out 

[Strawbone]

Like other's have mentioned, Petey's body language is concerning to me. I know Scandanvians are known for not being outwardly emotional but he really does look disinterested at times. I can't help but feel there's something going on and that he's not entirely happy with his current situation, or he has a nagging injury. I would have thought this hot start to the year would have him amped up for his first real shot at playoff success, but I haven't seen that.

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[Huggy Bear]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Happy birthday my friend.  Haven’t seen you around here in awhile. Hope all is well.

 

I can say this with certainty.  Petey loves Vancouver and will re-sign here in the summer. 100% guaranteed.  I can’t tell you how I know this as it will reveal my true identity, but “just trust me on this bro”…   

 

Petey IS playing with an injury.  I did confirm this.  It’s nothing major but he should be healed up by Christmas.  You will see the real Petey in 2024 and he will lead us to the Stanley Cup.  I promise…

Thanks bro! 

 

grateful for this reassurance. Don’t get me wrong. I love Petey. And while it would be easy to be skeptical, I totally trust you, because your hockey knowledge is 10/10. 

[Strawbone]

On the upside, Hoglander was fantastic. I thought that was his best game as a Canuck. He was hounding the puck all night, playing physical, and making smart plays. It looked like a playoff-level effort from him.

[Huggy Bear]

7 hours ago, qwijjibo said:

Happy birthday!  Positive isn't a bad thing.  I tend to land in the middle. He wai i i see it Things are never as bad as some people see them out to be abd they're never as rosy as others see them.  

 

With regards to Pettersson I think it's akin to being caught between a rock and a hard spot.  You'll never get equivalent value in  trade, at best you might get a couple great pieces, but will you get an elite piece in return? Probably  not.  

 

I guess it comes down to Pettersson's desire to stay and the contract hes willing to accept.  Its not an enviable situation.  If you trade him and end up with nothing of vakue in the long run (think the Patrick Roy trade) you can damage your franchise for a long time.  Or you can do realy well and get some cornerstone pieces (like buffalo got out of the Eichel trade).  On the flip side if you sign him at all cost you can hamstring your franchise like Edmonton and Toronto have done.  Top heavy with no depth.

 

I won't speculate on if there's an issue or not.  It could just be that hes streaky.  He wouldn't be the first player to run hot and cold.  I think back to Alex Kovalev.  The guy could be the best player in the league for a stretch, then disappear. Whether or not that's the case here or not remains to be seen. 

 

Interesting and nerve wracking time 

thanks @qwijjibo. Love how you are so knowledgeable about 2 teams. And I completely agree with you about positivity, and the Canucks situation.

[Huggy Bear]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Happy birthday bud.

 

There is no trade (never say never I guess) that involves Petey that sees this team being competitive in the Miller timeline. I was calling for the approach all along that the team traded both Horvat and Miller for futures, but they didn't do that. By resigning Miller, and likely relocating Horvat to a D entering his financial prime, this is our window whether the team is ready for it or not.

 

I can't invision any trade that involves Petey that puts this team in a better position to take a run at the cup in the next 2-3 years, which is what I now believe or timeline is looking like. If this franchise wants any chance of succeeding in a cup in this cores timeline, that involved Petey being a major part of this team.

Thanks Shayster!

 

great points as usual.

[24K]

6 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

Like other's have mentioned, Petey's body language is concerning to me. I know Scandanvians are known for not being outwardly emotional but he really does look disinterested at times. I can't help but feel there's something going on and that he's not entirely happy with his current situation, or he has a nagging injury. I would have thought this hot start to the year would have him amped up for his first real shot at playoff success, but I haven't seen that.

Pettey is more than likely being weight down by his contract situation. 

 

Not the first time he played like this right around contracts pre and post signing.

 

The guy should not bet on himself cause he can't handle that pressure.

 

Best thing he can do right now for himself is to go to his agent and either tell him to get the contract done asap or request a trade.  

[Huggy Bear]

1 hour ago, Darius said:

At some point Id like to see Hughes and Hronek each paired up with a solid shutdown D.  Each pair can have their minutes managed.  Right now those guys are playing too much and get exposed when the other team really pushes the play in the D zone.  Imagine if we had a young Chris Tanev playing with one of those guys.

 

Im not sure what to make of EP.  If he is the center piece of the offence he will need to be more consistent. When the Sedins were roughly his age I remember lots of people wanting to trade them too.  Too inconsistent, too soft etc ...those were the criticisms.  IMHO he is probably a bit injured and ultimately id like to see him with a bigger/heavier winger that can win some board battles and cause chaos in front of the net.    I love Kuz as a character, I think he got a bit lucky last year, but I see him as a Russian Kyle Wellwood.  Loads of skill, but probably not a guy you win a battle with vs big heavy teams like Las Vegas.

 

Happy Birthday @Huggy Bear

 

Great points as usual. Thanks @Darius