PGT - Devils at Canucks - 12/05/2023

[Strawbone]

43 minutes ago, 24K said:

Pettey is more than likely being weight down by his contract situation. 

 

Not the first time he played like this right around contracts pre and post signing.

 

The guy should not bet on himself cause he can't handle that pressure.

 

Best thing he can do right now for himself is to go to his agent and either tell him to get the contract done asap or request a trade.  

 

I wonder if the Vancouver market is weighing on him. We all want a Stanley Cup SO BAD, there's 50 years of pent up hope and seemingly never-ending disappointment... the weight of expectations must be huge on star players here.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

 

 

This is where i hope the prospect pool kicks in.  They need to start cycling in guys they develop (AHL) into bottom pair/bottom 6 players.  Give them some experience and then move them up the lineup and push others out if applicable.    Having a farm system that is on the same page with the big club when it comes to systems/coaching styles will make this even more of a seamless process.  The hope is you can afford more big ticket players in key roles rather than paying through the nose to fill role positions (see Beagle, Schaller etc)

 

This is one of the areas the org has failed IMHO.  In the past 5-8 years have they developed any D that have stepped in and moved their way up the lineup?

 

 

 

to be fair, it takes a long to get to that point and when Gillis left, their development system was completely non existent, both in terms of prospects and structure.

[Darius]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

to be fair, it takes a long to get to that point and when Gillis left, their development system was completely non existent, both in terms of prospects and structure.

no doubt.  our hopes were hinged on guys like Jensen and Rodin...thin to say the least (wont get into the reasons why it was thin coz thats a 3,000 page debate lol)

 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

or don't cave to players seeking massive contracts and go the route that Vegas went instead and spread the cap around more evenly

 

Vegas is an anomaly as an expansion team who stepped into the league and began to try and contend pretty much immediately, they benefitted greatly from beginning with a blank slate and from a favourable expansion draft. Vegas also has favourable tax bits if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Easier to convince guys to take less in tax-friendly states, Kucherov making 9.5M is another good example of this, so is point at 9.5M. Hell, Stamkos signing his last deal at 8.5M is too. 

 

Florida's getting the same deal, Tkachuk at 9.5M and Barkov at 10M. 

 

Canucks don't get those kinds of breaks, they'll have to pay the actual dollars up front. 

 

5 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

 

This is where i hope the prospect pool kicks in.  They need to start cycling in guys they develop (AHL) into bottom pair/bottom 6 players.  Give them some experience and then move them up the lineup and push others out if applicable.    Having a farm system that is on the same page with the big club when it comes to systems/coaching styles will make this even more of a seamless process.  The hope is you can afford more big ticket players in key roles rather than paying through the nose to fill role positions (see Beagle, Schaller etc)

 

This is one of the areas the org has failed IMHO.  In the past 5-8 years have they developed any D that have stepped in and moved their way up the lineup?

 

 

 

They've done a better job drafting of late at least, but yeah.. drafting and development have been an issue for ages, at least up until recently. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

5 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

 

This is where i hope the prospect pool kicks in.  They need to start cycling in guys they develop (AHL) into bottom pair/bottom 6 players.  Give them some experience and then move them up the lineup and push others out if applicable.    Having a farm system that is on the same page with the big club when it comes to systems/coaching styles will make this even more of a seamless process.  The hope is you can afford more big ticket players in key roles rather than paying through the nose to fill role positions (see Beagle, Schaller etc)

 

This is one of the areas the org has failed IMHO.  In the past 5-8 years have they developed any D that have stepped in and moved their way up the lineup?

 

 

 

It looks like we're finally turning the corner on all of that. It's been a long time and we're getting more competent in our development. This should be a bright spot and reason to be hopeful. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 minutes ago, Darius said:

no doubt.  our hopes were hinged on guys like Jensen and Rodin...thin to say the least (wont get into the reasons why it was thin coz thats a 3,000 page debate lol)

 

 

That was brutal. Those days are gone ... thank god. 

[kilgore]

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

Guess no bag skates 

 

Tocc probably did it to prevent himself from losing it on a player

 

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Vegas is an anomaly as an expansion team who stepped into the league and began to try and contend pretty much immediately, they benefitted greatly from beginning with a blank slate and from a favourable expansion draft. Vegas also has favourable tax bits if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Easier to convince guys to take less in tax-friendly states, Kucherov making 9.5M is another good example of this, so is point at 9.5M. Hell, Stamkos signing his last deal at 8.5M is too. 

 

Florida's getting the same deal, Tkachuk at 9.5M and Barkov at 10M. 

 

Canucks don't get those kinds of breaks, they'll have to pay the actual dollars up front. 

 

 

They've done a better job drafting of late at least, but yeah.. drafting and development have been an issue for ages, at least up until recently. 

You nailed it @Coconuts ... and a late happy B-day to @Huggy Bear  ... sounds like you had a blast.   Also saw your invite.   Cool stuff.   Bucket list is a Canucks playoff game, if and when I get there, might be doing the same that was neat.  

 

They don't have the same luxury as some places, let's hope that EP signs a contract that gives the team a leg up like Miller did.  

[Locke Lamora]

Sure hope Zadorov has more to his game than what he’s shown. I know its only been two games but yeeeesh. 

[Coconuts]

If Vegas were to acquire and pay Pettersson 10M he'd only pay $3,660,332

 

If the Canucks were to pay Pettersson 10M he'd pay $5,302,932 in tax 

 

The Canucks have to pay more in terms of dollars and cap space for Pettersson to get the same dollar value 

 

That's a difference of $1,642,600 per season 

 

If the Canucks had somehow acquired Tkachuk and given him 9.5M instead of Florida he'd pay $5,035,432 a year in tax

 

Instead, he pays $3,475,332 a year in tax, a difference of $1,560,100 a season

 

Play around with it, the Canucks aren't going to get the favourable contracts tax free states will https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/

Edited December 6, 2023 by Coconuts

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, Coconuts said:

If Vegas were to acquire and pay Pettersson 10M he'd only pay $3,660,332

 

If the Canucks were to pay Pettersson 10M he'd pay $5,302,932 in tax 

 

The Canucks have to pay more in terms of dollars and cap space for Pettersson to get the same dollar value 

 

That's a difference of $1,642,600 per season 

 

If the Canucks had somehow acquired Tkachuk and given him 9.5M instead of Florida he'd pay $5,035,432 a year in tax

 

Instead, he pays $3,475,332 a year in tax, a difference of $1,560,100 a season

Well then I guess we might as well just fold up the Canadian teams and form our own B-league then?

 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

I don’t think Kuzmenko is staying with the team. Could see him and Garland being traded. 

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If Vegas were to acquire and pay Pettersson 10M he'd only pay $3,660,332

 

If the Canucks were to pay Pettersson 10M he'd pay $5,302,932 in tax 

 

The Canucks have to pay more in terms of dollars and cap space for Pettersson to get the same dollar value 

 

That's a difference of $1,642,600 per season 

 

If the Canucks had somehow acquired Tkachuk and given him 9.5M instead of Florida he'd pay $5,035,432 a year in tax

 

Instead, he pays $3,475,332 a year in tax, a difference of $1,560,100 a season

One of my favourite hobby horses the past 6 years or so.   It didn't used to be a big deal, but now that low state tax teams are regularly in the final four or winning cups...it's a big deal. 

 

Going after Swedes is smart.   They are used to high taxes, BC is a similar climate as well.   Back in 2011, we had the same taxes as Alberta does.   Palatable.   That's gone up 6-7%.     Figure EP signs the Barkov special, add some for inflation and taxes, and that's how we end up with 10.5-11. 

 

Edit:  One way to lower cap hits is to front load deals.   Give EP a bunch upfront.   Future value of money.   A dollar today, is not a dollar in 6-8 years.    Gillis was a mastermind when it came to this.  It should also be reserved for marque players only though.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by IBatch

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Well then I guess we might as well just fold up the Canadian teams and form our own B-league then?

 

 

It'll never happen, NHL is likely far too entrenched and it's the devil owners know, Canadian owners will simply take their lumps alongside their profits 

 

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don’t think Kuzmenko is staying with the team. Could see him and Garland being traded. 

 

He's the guy I'd look to be moving, him and Boeser are up for renewal the same year and I know who I'd be keeping 

 

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

One of my favourite hobby horses the past 6 years or so.   It didn't used to be a big deal, but now that low state tax teams are regularly in the final four or winning cups...it's a big deal. 

 

It's a huge competitive advantage, Tampa arguably doesn't fit those cup winning teams together without it 

 

Florida probably doesn't have their modern renaissance without it

 

Vegas doesn't fit all the pieces the way they do without it 

 

Who wouldn't wanna go somewhere you're not going to be recognized on the street and where you'd earn more money? 

 

Millionaire athlete in Florida or closer to Cali, sells itself 

[PhillipBlunt]

Will also be glad when Myers time here is over. That pass to the wrong Hughes was irretrievably stupid. 

[Nucker67]

6 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

Sure hope Zadorov has more to his game than what he’s shown. I know its only been two games but yeeeesh. 

 

Not worried at all about Zadorov. It's only his second game, he's new to the team, coaches, city, everything. Myers needs to go and a better D partner for Zadorov.

 

Hughes - Hronek

Zadorov - Cole

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

So what's the solution? Teams that have States with low taxes have to pay a "Equalization tax?" I was looking at California, they pay similar but slightly less taxes (About 8% less) than here in BC.

[Roberts]

9 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

—————

 

edit :

 

*damn it, I forgot @Coconuts @Devron. Two of my faves.

 

And I remembered his name!!!

@Roberts @Roberts @Roberts!
 

if I say his name two more times, he will appear in the mirror behind me.

 

——————-
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

AYY

[Coconuts]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

So what's the solution? Teams that have States with low taxes have to pay a "Equalization tax?" I was looking at California, they pay similar but slightly less taxes (About 8% less) than here in BC.

 

There isn't one, why would the NHL remove the advantage of non-traditional markets that also happen to be great revenue sources?

 

Why do you think there are rumours about the NHL going back to Atlanta for the third time? Or why there's talk of a second team in Texas? Untapped market revenue. 

 

The NHL's probably thrilled that it's helped markets like Dallas, Vegas, and Tampa develop. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Happy Birthday Huggy! Glad you enjoyed it.

[PhillipBlunt]

10 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Shitty loss tonight. I had the best birthday of my life at age 45, and wanted to cap it off with Quinn beating his brothers, watching the game with my boys and my Dad. Ah well…we’re 4th in the league. Still an amazing season, and great time to be a Canucks fan
 

unpopular opinion - If we love Petey, we set him free… and take the absolute haul we’d get for him (from an Eastern team).

 

We have JTM in his prime, and at least one great bottom 6C. Our defence is taking shape…maybe we retool our 2C/3C with the riches from Petey’s return?

 

Give JT the top line, leading with heart, passion, and legit power forward BDE.

 

@-dlc- @Grandmaster @Elias Pettersson @JamesB @SilentSam @Darius @Salacious Crumb @Goal_thecup @Goalie29 @I.Am.Ironman @stawns @Gurn @AatuD2 @aGENT @ABNuck @Bounce000 @Ballisticsports @Canuckfanforlife82 @Caboose @D.B Cooper @EdgarM@Fantomex @Fanuck @garthsbutcher @Gassy Jack @Gawdzukes @Hairy Kneel @Hammertime @Harvey Specter @I.AM.THE.WALRUS @John.Tallhouse @J-23 @Jack Fig @PhillipBlunt @Phil_314 @LaBamba @Miss Korea @Mando27 @N4ZZY @Qwags @qwijjibo @Ralph. @Rip The Mesh @Ribs @R3aL @Sophomore Jinx @brilac @NucksFan @Canucks_fo_life @Sabrefan1 @The Duke @UnkNuk @VanCanFan @wai_lai416 @Warhippy @xMagnus @viking mama @canuck73_3@Zippy

@Rocket-68 @Sharpshooter@PeteyBoeser

@Bob Long @MeanSeanBean @Wilbur @higgyfan @RWJC @24K

@Dr. Crossbar @DownUndaCanuck @Down By the River
 

—————

 

edit :

 

*damn it, I forgot @Coconuts @Devron. Two of my faves.

 

And I remembered his name!!!

@Roberts @Roberts @Roberts!
 

if I say his name two more times, he will appear in the mirror behind me.

 

——————-
 

You're (some of) the members I really enjoy chatting with on here. IF/WHEN you have time, grateful for your thoughts on taking this approach…if Petey is Luke warm on Van, and prefers obscurity/privacy? Just trade him and use the assets for high end 2C/3C? I’m not married to it (just dating it)…does it make sense?

 

Also just realizing, in real time, what a great community this is. That wasn’t hard to rattle of ~60 names I remember and respect. I have a health issue that affects my memory, so it’s probably over 100!

 

These boards are special. Got me through my worst lows. 
 

Thanks!

PS

 

Who’s the guy from Victoria that loved when I mentioned him twice in a post on CDC? He’s awesome and loves the Macho Man king gif?  I will edit this and mention him3x.

 

 

 

Happy birthday, brother. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

There isn't one, why would the NHL remove the advantage of non-traditional markets that also happen to be great revenue sources?

 

Why do you think there are rumours about the NHL going back to Atlanta for the third time? Or why there's talk of a second team in Texas? Untapped market revenue. 

 

The NHL's probably thrilled that it's helped markets like Dallas, Vegas, and Tampa develop. 

Texas makes sense, even Portland (No sales tax).

I just don't see Atlanta working. Oh wait, Bettman insists Arizona will work....

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Texas makes sense, even Portland (No sales tax).

I just don't see Atlanta working. Oh wait, Bettman insists Arizona will work....

 

It's ugly but I don't see any reason why the NHL would stop putting the screws to other teams 

 

It's not just Canadian teams these markets have advantages over, but other American teams as well 

 

It'd probably also be a huge headache given each state and province has their own tax stuff, don't even know how they'd go about equalizing it all legally 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Coconuts

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

It's ugly but I don't see any reason why the NHL would stop putting the screws to other teams 

 

It's not just Canadian teams these markets have advantages over, but other American teams as well 

 

It'd probably also be a huge headache given each state and province has their own tax stuff, don't even know how they've go about equalizing it all legally 

So Moneypuck?

[IBatch]

l

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So what's the solution? Teams that have States with low taxes have to pay a "Equalization tax?" I was looking at California, they pay similar but slightly less taxes (About 8% less) than here in BC.

The variance is 36.6 - 53 and change %.   Dallas, Vegas, TB, Florida...and your correct the Cali teams and NY teams are the heaviest taxed US ones, around where the Alberta teams are.   Then there a pile of teams in the low 40's.  COL is one of them.  About 12 less than the Canucks.    There are no state tax, and then there are low state tax teams.   Canucks used to be the least taxed Canadian teams, with EDM and CAL.   Around 47%.   It's not an easy discussion.   Also think it has a lot to do with why Quebec City doesn't get a franchise.   That and our dollar.