[PGT] Minnesota @ Vancouver

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

We didn't see much of Kuzy in the 3rd but I liked his movement on the PP and that backcheck he did have in the 3rd. Real tough to not see him clicking though. Miller-Boeser and Petey-Kuzy firing on all cylinders which they are capable of doing makes us a great scoring team. Hopefully it all gets going.

 

Hoggy is making up for some goals in the meantime so that's nice.

Kuzzy is too skilled to be on the 4th line... he needs to figure it out sooner rather than later or we might ship him out. What would be a fair return for him?

 

And great job to De Smith. He looked so solid today! Nice to see him do well and give a clutch backup start.

At this point, a solid but expensive, veteran 3C would be worth looking into.   With Hogs breaking out, it's something we could afford.   Lowry type. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, coolboarder said:

I think that we will be close together as top 5 until we play Vegas and LA more often and get some type of separation.  

This team can beat both those teams, and any other team, if both our top lines are on.   Soucy coming back, is going to solidly our d-core.   Even without him, Zadarov will settle in and should replace a lot of what we've missed since he went down.   Which did coincide with this win one, lose one.   Stoked the team, once again, pulled it out a win after a loss.   That's extremely valuable, and shouldn't be ignored.  Losing two in a row (once so far this season), is a quick way to lose a series.   If anything, hopefully later they can draw on that.   

 

So far we haven't been blown out either.   And it seems like the first time in years, we can win low scoring games.   That's on the coaching staff and their systems.    Buy in is there, but maybe could go one more level too.   
 

NJ.   The best defensive team i've ever seen, and maybe the best all-time at it (probably).   Ask Scott Steven's what he has to say about "playing a system, that required me to change my game"  "we all sacrificed individual stats, to play as a team".      Prior to that, he was close to a PPG guy.   Scary good at both ends of the ice.    He completely bought in, and focussed almost entirely on his own zone.    

 

Tochett, Foote and Gonchar, have seen it all, and know what it takes to win cups.    Like to see us go out and play a stack of games where we are in it from the start, but the nice thing about systems,  when players are tired or playing with something (not 100%), they can rely on the system.    Still working out the kinks.

[theochar]

You could see in his pre game interview that Kuzmenko has had the joy and happiness sucked out of him. It down to the coach to utilize his assets and put him in a position to succeed, you can't be playing him like hes a plug. Tocchet needs to figure this out pretty sharpish or Kuzy will be shipped out as a failure with no decent return. Yes hes a bit of a show pony but you have to put him back on the Petey line, Lafferty is fine but he should't be ahead of Kuzy in the line up. We have enough behind him to support whatever defensive deficiencies he may have. Kuzy has a great attitude but he is now becoming demotivated. Sort it out coach!!!!!

 

You dont score 40 goals if youre a plug I don't care who you linemates are

Edited December 8, 2023 by theochar
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[Chon derry]

5 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I'm a former player 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, theochar said:

You could see in his pre game interview that Kuzmenko has had the joy and happiness sucked out of him. It down to the coach to utilize his assets and put him in a position to succeed, you can't be playing him like hes a plug. Tocchet needs to figure this out pretty sharpish or Kuzy will be shipped out as a failure with no decent return. Yes hes a bit of a show pony but you have to put him back on the Petey line, Lafferty is fine but he should't be ahead of Kuzy in the line up. We have enough behind him to support whatever defensive deficiencies he may have. Kuzy has a great attitude but he is now becoming demotivated. Sort it out coach!!!!!

If one of your key guys, isn't playing the system, it doesn't work.   Of course he's not as happy.  And he shouldn't be.   Even when the team was flying, he wasn't putting the puck in the net, and they had a ton of zone time.    It's hockey.   Sometimes players get in a funk.   Other times players are slow starters, and go on heaters later.

 

   Asking your players to forecheck,  isn't something an NHL coach should be required to do.    There was a time, when ALL players, finished their checks, now 1/2 the recorded hits, are doing just that.    Kuzmenko is good enough to figure this out.    Just wish the media would leave it alone, Tochett has even told them not to ask about him. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

I think between Coach Tocchet and the Vancouver media - Kuzmenko will be asking for a trade anyway.

Kuzmenko is 27 but he never played in the NHL until last year. He scored 39 goals and had 74 points, but was with good linemates. In his Russian hockey career he never scored more than 20 goals and only did that twice. It's like players who played with the Sedins and got career points - who's on your line matters!

Moving Kuzmenko to the forth line with a 15 pt player ( Phillip Di Giuseppe ), and a sophmore player who had 16 points last year (Nils Aman) is basically telling Kuzmenko the team has no faith in him. He was playing with a 28 pt player ( Ilya Mikheyev ) and a 102 pt player ( Elias Pettersson ). In the last 10 games where Canucks are 5-5, Pettersson has 7 points ( 4 points in 2 games ) and Mikheyev has 5 points, while Kuzmenko has 3 pts. 

 

 

You do know, that the team tried virtually everyone with the Sedins at one point or the other, on a lot of teams, with various rosters ... and only two players gelled.   One year of Carter and Burrows.    It was a merry go round, trying to find anyone aside from those two guys, and none of them, saw a big "boost" other then what you should expect getting second or first line minutes, and even then, underwhelming.     After Burrows was gone, it was back to the early-mid  2000's, and even before he was traded, it was pretty grim as his career winded down.   So in 17 year careers, we saw two guys get a "boost".    And i'd argue Burrows gave them a "boost" just as much as he was given.  

 

EPs not like Bure, who you'd just put out with anyone (Odjick and spare parts) and could make a line just like that.   So far anyways.  Mogilny maybe too. 

 

Brock's rookie year, and he was a right winger so could have played with the Sedins, he played with Bear and Horvat.   

 

Know you've got a big button on Tochett for some reason (man is it refreshing, to have a coach who tells it like it is...even during our hot start he kept it real).    Maybe we should just let him do the coaching. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[theochar]

47 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If one of your key guys, isn't playing the system, it doesn't work.   Of course he's not as happy.  And he shouldn't be.   Even when the team was flying, he wasn't putting the puck in the net, and they had a ton of zone time.    It's hockey.   Sometimes players get in a funk.   Other times players are slow starters, and go on heaters later.

 

   Asking your players to forecheck,  isn't something an NHL coach should be required to do.    There was a time, when ALL players, finished their checks, now 1/2 the recorded hits, are doing just that.    Kuzmenko is good enough to figure this out.    Just wish the media would leave it alone, Tochett has even told them not to ask about him. 

 

I don't remember the Sedins in their prime doing that forecheck thing or finishing their checks that's not what they were paid to do. When you pay your hard earned money for a ticket what would you rather see, a Kuzy dangle or him chasing a puck after a dump in? You have to accommodate talent within any system. We have plenty of guys to chase and bang. Otherwise you start looking like Minnesota, would you pay money to see them?

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by theochar
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[Falcons]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

We didn't see much of Kuzy in the 3rd but I liked his movement on the PP and that backcheck he did have in the 3rd. Real tough to not see him clicking though. Miller-Boeser and Petey-Kuzy firing on all cylinders which they are capable of doing makes us a great scoring team. Hopefully it all gets going.

 

Hoggy is making up for some goals in the meantime so that's nice.

Kuzzy is too skilled to be on the 4th line... he needs to figure it out sooner rather than later or we might ship him out. What would be a fair return for him?

 

And great job to De Smith. He looked so solid today! Nice to see him do well and give a clutch backup start.

Just don’t ship him to the gulag 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, theochar said:

 

I don't remember the Sedins in their prime doing that forecheck thing or finishing their checks that's not what they were paid to do. When you pay your hard earned money for a ticket what would you rather see, a Kuzy dangle or him chasing a puck after a dump in? You have to accommodate talent within any system. We have plenty of guys to chase and bang

The Sedins were a lot more active on the boards than Kuzmenko is.   A lot more physical too, and way more active with their sticks.   And wouldn't even go there.   Kuzmenko, isn't a Sedin.   Sedins had to learn that part of the game in the deepest part of the dead puck era.   Took a beating, because they were willing to go in the corner and the tough area.   Kuzmenko could be a much better player.   And don't think Tochett is doing him a disservice for trying to make him a more complete player.   Yet anyways.   He wasn't scoring (with a lot of zone time, with EP).   Look at Brock.   Doesn't have the same wheels, and he's excelling.    I'm sure Kuzmenko will get another shot in the top six.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[Chon derry]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

The Sedins were a lot more active on the boards than Kuzmenko is.   

To be fair kuzmenko doesn’t have a twin brother that he can telepathically communicate with like the Sedins did. This ability always gave the twins an advantage. I’d dare to say  that solely either one of the twins by themselves would be any better than kuzmenko. 

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

1. The first half of the first period reminded me of half-court basketball because pretty much the entire game was played in the Canucks' end. DeSmith was great. I would like to say something about the other guys but it is hard because it seemed like no-one touched the puck (OK, a slight exaggeration.)

 

2. But around the twelve minute mark with the shots 10-0, the Canucks started to turn things around and outplayed Minny for the rest of the first period and in the second. In the third period the Canucks did not give up much and did a score a nice goal, but it concerns me that they only got 3 shots on goal in the 3rd.

 

3. Still, it was a nice defensively oriented win that corrected a lot of the problems that surfaced in the New Jersey game.

 

4. Hogz scored the first goal and had a very good game as the Miller line went against the Minny top line and did well after the first half of the first period. 

 

5. The line with the best numbers was the Garland-Blueger-Joshua line.  Blueger had a great goal and a nice feed from Garland. In the "Statcards" advanced stats those were top 3 Canucks. That line has been playing well and they deserve to finally get a few points.

 

6. The Pettersson line was pretty good. The Aman-PDG-Kuzy line struggled, with very poor advanced stats. 

 

7. As for the D, Hughes played close to 28 minutes, but he played very well, constantly skating the puck out of trouble.  Cole had a bounce-back game and played well, apart from the penalty he took because he used his stick instead of moving his feet.

 

8. I would also mention Juulsen. He played a tough, physical game and was credited with 5 hits. He played about 12 1/2 minutes and did not give up much and ended up with pretty good advanced stats. He has improved a lot since the start of the season. I'd still take Bear as an upgrade on the right side, but Juulsen deserves some credit.

 

9. I feel sorry for Kuzy. He must be kind of confused about what to do. Basically, Tocc wants him to play a completely different style from his natural tendencies. I am not convinced that is the right was to get the most value from Kuzy. Right now he is playing on eggshells, worried about doing the wrong thing instead of playing with confidence. 

 

Bottom Line: Great to get the win but it is a bit worrying to the see the team get dominated so badly in the early going. Its hard for me to figure out how that can happen. But it is a win and it is great to know we have such a good backup goalie and that the team can play tight "structured" defence as they did for most of the game.

I have been pumping both Hogs and Juulson for a month now. Hogs was easy as his game under RT has blossomed and it was only a matter of time before his points started coming. ANother game where he arguably was the top forward. I will with hold that tho are top forward was JT Miller. The only forward to clock over 20 minutes at 22:38 and 52.6% in the circle. He logged a lot of TOI in the Canuck d-zone with critical FO's. #1 DeSmith #2 JT #3 Hogs.

 

Noah Juulson: Does this guy start getting some love on this thread? Yes, he made 5 hits and gets some criticism for ill advised/timed hits. Fair enough but I would hope the high forward would be covering him as a better physical game by the Canucks will be critical come playoffs. What is somewhat under appreciated is his d-zone coverage and ability to move the puck up ice. Juulson's pinch on the Blueger goal did not yield him a apple but it should have. His ability to hold the o-zone blueline is steadily improving. He has a heavy shot. His TOI last night was 12:31 and I thought he outplayed Meyers. Consider his play in light of his 71 NHL games of which 28 are in the last 2 seasons. At 26 I think he has more upside. IMHO he has 5D upside. He gives us a physical side we won't get from Bear and is of course much cheaper. 

 

My only downer on the game was Hughes 26:54 and Hronek 27:57 TOI. I can see why RT did that much ice, especially Hronek at RD but it is to much. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Chon derry said:

To be fair kuzmenko doesn’t have a twin brother that he can telepathically communicate with like the Sedins did. This ability always gave the twins an advantage. I’d dare to say  that solely either one of the twins by themselves would be any better than kuzmenko. 

Like probably everyone on this site, was hoping Kuzmenko could become, EPs longtime wing mate.   I also don't mind Tochett exploring different line combos for EP, given what sort of pay cheque he's going to command.    Guys who get paid what he's likely going to get, should be capable of driving a line with whomever.   Barkov, Stamkos, Point, ... to name a few.     Also think Lafferty is there to provide some size.    Mikheyev is a swiss army knife.   Could add value to the Mathews line, or play in the bottom six.    Our first line so far this year,  as far as who plays who, had mostly been the Miller line up against the other teams best players.  

 

 So it's not like EPs been hung out to dry either.   If you want to be the best, that's a great start, but you also have to be the best.   Tactically, Tochett's trying to get Kuzmenko to play his system.    He does have to be careful...  Accountability sometimes requires an example.    Myers your next? 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I have been pumping both Hogs and Juulson for a month now. Hogs was easy as his game under RT has blossomed and it was only a matter of time before his points started coming. ANother game where he arguably was the top forward. I will with hold that tho are top forward was JT Miller. The only forward to clock over 20 minutes at 22:38 and 52.6% in the circle. He logged a lot of TOI in the Canuck d-zone with critical FO's. #1 DeSmith #2 JT #3 Hogs.

 

Noah Juulson: Does this guy start getting some love on this thread? Yes, he made 5 hits and gets some criticism for ill advised/timed hits. Fair enough but I would hope the high forward would be covering him as a better physical game by the Canucks will be critical come playoffs. What is somewhat under appreciated is his d-zone coverage and ability to move the puck up ice. Juulson's pinch on the Blueger goal did not yield him a apple but it should have. His ability to hold the o-zone blueline is steadily improving. He has a heavy shot. His TOI last night was 12:31 and I thought he outplayed Meyers. Consider his play in light of his 71 NHL games of which 28 are in the last 2 seasons. At 26 I think he has more upside. IMHO he has 5D upside. He gives us a physical side we won't get from Bear and is of course much cheaper. 

 

My only downer on the game was Hughes 26:54 and Hronek 27:57 TOI. I can see why RT did that much ice, especially Hronek at RD but it is to much. 

Hogs this year is like found money.  Juulsen maybe too.   Not sure why the lightning rod has to be around Kuzmenko.   Wasn't signed to score 38 goals.

 

As for Myers.  It's going to be awfully interesting once Soucy comes back.   One of our LHD's will slot to the right side.    

[WillisD]

7 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Tocchet interview he needs to get fired now.

 

He is to happy about a win against a bad team that out played them in the first

Fuk you're a turd in the pool

[Rekker]

6 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

That would be amazing.  

 

Juulsen has strung together about 10 games in a row now where he's looked solid. Big hits and blocked shots, with some mistakes sprinkled in. 

 

I'd love to still sign Bear and have Juulsen and Bear fighting it out for 6th dman. 

I as well. If Juulsen can find this consistency I would take him over Bear. Love the physicality he can bring to the right side.

[Chon derry]

57 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Like probably everyone on this site, was hoping Kuzmenko could become, EPs longtime wing mate.   I also don't mind Tochett exploring different line combos for EP, given what sort of pay cheque he's going to command.    Guys who get paid what he's likely going to get, should be capable of driving a line with whomever.   Barkov, Stamkos, Point, ... to name a few.     Also think Lafferty is there to provide some size.    Mikheyev is a swiss army knife.   Could add value to the Mathews line, or play in the bottom six.    Our first line so far this year,  as far as who plays who, had mostly been the Miller line up against the other teams best players.  

 

 So it's not like EPs been hung out to dry either.   If you want to be the best, that's a great start, but you also have to be the best.   Tactically, Tochett's trying to get Kuzmenko to play his system.    He does have to be careful...  Accountability sometimes requires an example.    Myers your next? 

Tochetts trying to get the team as a whole to buy into his system. With kuz he seems to be an offence player only. And that’s all you get. He’s sacrificing kuz s offence to somehow hope he’ll become a better 2way player. A player he’s never been. But someone pointed out back in Russia he only had 2 seasons where he only scored 20 goals. So is he really a offence only player?  Like like you said he really needs to have good players to play with. RT is setting him up for failure. 1. Trying to instile this defensive side that he just doesn’t have. 2. Playing him with 3rd and 4th line players. At this point he’s all but forgotten how to bring what he brought last year, and he’s so muddled now they might as well trade him as much I’d like to see him adapt, I just don’t see it with how  their utilizing him. They should have just left it the way it was , why try to fix something that’s not broken? In the end this team does need to still score goals. It’s similar to how Edmonton screwed up the development of some of their draft picks. The difference is kuzmenko isn’t a young draft pick.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chon derry
G

[stawns]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

If one of your key guys, isn't playing the system, it doesn't work.   Of course he's not as happy.  And he shouldn't be.   Even when the team was flying, he wasn't putting the puck in the net, and they had a ton of zone time.    It's hockey.   Sometimes players get in a funk.   Other times players are slow starters, and go on heaters later.

 

   Asking your players to forecheck,  isn't something an NHL coach should be required to do.    There was a time, when ALL players, finished their checks, now 1/2 the recorded hits, are doing just that.    Kuzmenko is good enough to figure this out.    Just wish the media would leave it alone, Tochett has even told them not to ask about him. 

 

I actually don't find that kuz isn't playing the systems or not playing the right way, I just think he's a bit redundant in the lineup now and there's just not a spot for his skill set

 

PA still has some big moves to make to get this team where they want them to be and Kuz, imo, is one of them 

Edited December 8, 2023 by stawns

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Like probably everyone on this site, was hoping Kuzmenko could become, EPs longtime wing mate.   I also don't mind Tochett exploring different line combos for EP, given what sort of pay cheque he's going to command.    Guys who get paid what he's likely going to get, should be capable of driving a line with whomever.   Barkov, Stamkos, Point, ... to name a few.     Also think Lafferty is there to provide some size.    Mikheyev is a swiss army knife.   Could add value to the Mathews line, or play in the bottom six.    Our first line so far this year,  as far as who plays who, had mostly been the Miller line up against the other teams best players.  

 

 So it's not like EPs been hung out to dry either.   If you want to be the best, that's a great start, but you also have to be the best.   Tactically, Tochett's trying to get Kuzmenko to play his system.    He does have to be careful...  Accountability sometimes requires an example.    Myers your next? 

 

I guess I have to ask why would Kuzy get a pass in the system when others don't? It is about accountability.

 

Tbh I don't really care who the odd person out is (there's always one with a new coach) if the team is winning and actually building something special.

 

I just want it resolved sooner than later.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess I have to ask why would Kuzy get a pass in the system when others don't? It is about accountability.

 

Tbh I don't really care who the odd person out is (there's always one with a new coach) if the team is winning and actually building something special.

 

I just want it resolved sooner than later.

 

Do you feel it can be resolved without a deal, or do you think using Kuz as an asset to bolster other areas is the way to go?

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

 

Do you feel it can be resolved without a deal, or do you think using Kuz as an asset to bolster other areas is the way to go?

 

If we can get a top 4 RHD for him, or a 3c with size I think you do that. 

 

I don't see Kuzy having much success out of a top 6 role.

 

Can he make it back there under Rick? Dunno.... 

[Blue]

8 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Tocchet should have come out and spoke the truth.

 

The team was not prepared in the first that's on the coaching staff. Should have called an early time out and rip them new assholes

Listen to the Bleuger interview. He says the bad starts are from jitters and players not wanting to make a mistake. The more you over coach them the worse the starts will get 

[Blue]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Do you feel it can be resolved without a deal, or do you think using Kuz as an asset to bolster other areas is the way to go?

We already have a fringe NHLer in the top 6. We don't need another 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

We already have a fringe NHLer in the top 6. We don't need another 

Who out of our current top 6 is a fringe NHLer? Lafferty?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Who out of our current top 6 is a fringe NHLer? Lafferty?

IMHAO we have several super elite players who elevate those who play with them. Hughes clearly makes fringe NHL partners appear to be a lot more than that. And Petey and Miller do the same. Boeser is a very good player too. I’d say Lafferty and Hogs (Hogs has more runway to improve though) are fringe NHLers. Their play is certainly amplified by playing with elite players. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO we have several super elite players who elevate those who play with them. Hughes clearly makes fringe NHL partners appear to be a lot more than that. And Petey and Miller do the same. Boeser is a very good player too. I’d say Lafferty and Hogs (Hogs has more runway to improve though) are fringe NHLers. Their play is certainly amplified by playing with elite players. 

Hoglander is at 9 goals, 7 of which were on the 4th line getting 10 minutes of ice time a game. He's a 2nd rounder that has immense skill and great grit. He's way past being a fringe NHLer at this point. Maybe it comes down to definitions, but I'd say a fringe NHLer is someone who wouldn't even get picked up on waivers. I don't see Hoglander or Lafferty in that category. 

 

I will die on the hill that the Lafferty on Petey's line experiment should end immediately. It's pathetic.