[PGT] Minnesota @ Vancouver

[TheGuardian]

28 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

First half of the first period... 

I was wondering what the heck was wrong with this team... Soft on the puck. Couldn't make or take a pass. 

We really looked like the same basement team from the past few seasons. We looked terrible.

2nd and 3rd periods were completely completely different. Played systems really well and didn't give the Wild much. 

DeSmith was great. 

Also, I think Z's been solid. Love the big hits and the strong play at the end on Maroon to break up the sustained puck possession in our zone and get it out. 

I felt like the entire team played well and followed the game plan the final 2 periods and dominated. 

We could have scored quite a few more goals. A few breakaways, a few posts, some grade A cross seam passes. 

Seeing how the were able to play so differently the final 2 periods vs the first period, makes me question why the came out so flat? They might be playing too tight, scared of making mistakes so they over analyze, over think and are last to the puck. Being second to the puck and losing the battle then opens up other holes. 

The key or answer to this isn't to abandon the system. It's to know it inside out so there is no confusion or time to think. Just let the body react. Looks like more practice time is needed to engrained this rather than less. 

 

 

 

 

Benning's losing culture. Edmonton was like this. A decade of losing gets engrained to the marrow. Now Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Demko the main core players have spent years, their NHL careers not winning and the team crafted and developed a losing culture even Miller has been affected. No matter how much they try to ignore it, that waiting for the other boot to drop is there. They need more experienced forwards. I remember the Islanders, after years of falling short it took a trade for Goring to push them over the top.

Paralysis by analysis happens with benching and players trying to play another way, again. This is the 3rd coach in 3 years with 3 different systems albeit not much of a difference but there is a change over of personnel too. Tocchet wants dump and pray board battles and staples. The timing has to be right to be successful. This can be interrupted easily but does result in outmanned chances, as was seen.

ZAD (ZOD) was a great first step, now they need a Mantha/Jannot to forecheck for Pettersson so he goes back to being the skill guy.

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It was a good sign last night that for the last 2 periods, they got back to taking care of things in their own end first.  There's so much offensive talent on this team that if they just work on keeping the puck out, the offensive opportunities will present themselves.  A bit more boring play style, but wins matter more to fans than wide open hockey.

That was a bad sign. Out shot 10 to 3 in the third? That is something to be concerned with. They are living off the 34 goals scored against Edmonton and San Jose. They are still on the plus side but... 

7 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

If Kuzy played physically like Hoglander, he would be incredible. Sadly, I don't think it's in his DNA to play that way. Kuzy isn't some young kid they can take their time and develop and mold into the player they want (like they did with Hoglander).

 

Garland was great yesterday and has upped his game since deciding he didn't want to get traded. Kuzmenko is playing okay, but not the right way. I wonder how much patience Tocchet and Allvin will have with him. My guess is he could be traded.

 

 

Kuz is Kuz, he has fairly decent stat numbers but it could be that Tocchet and Allvin aren't on the same page on player type or systems.

Or Tocchet just doesn't think he has enough Tarzans.

Pretty sure if Garland or Boeser or Kuz did go and were replaced by a "Tocchet Tarzan" he would not be upset.

 

So MAYBE Tocchet is throwing Kuzmenko under the bus because the team couldn't trade Garland or Boeser last year but Kuzmenko had lots of interest. Tocchet would do all he can to enhance Boeser or Garland's trade value. This would also be why Garland is working so hard, so he can be traded.

This underlying sentiment might be another reason for erratic play.

Garland may have been a headliner last night, maybe because so many others stumbled. IMO he did look good.

[PhillipBlunt]

That sack of crap Maroon should be suspended one game for the instigator. 

[Steamer4GM]

9 hours ago, Joshua.Guy said:

I found the link but it's longer.. and probably will hit more feels 

 

https://youtu.be/_lTrShHMmo4?si=eTmHV4qxRakTx7EP

Im such a tool lol

 

I saw Linus and brain jumped to Karlsson so I thought it was Canuck related

[Mando27]

Maybe unpopular opinion but I think that was the best the Canucks have played since the Dallas game. The first was bad but after that they shut it down and played very structured hockey.

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

 

That was a bad sign. Out shot 10 to 3 in the third? That is something to be concerned with. They are living off the 34 goals scored against Edmonton and San Jose. They are still on the plus side but... 
 

 

I dunno, might have been the fact the Canucks played a structured defence because I sure didn't feel nervous about anything in the 3rd.  In fact, it felt like the Canucks had the better grade A opportunities.

[Ballisticsports]

9 hours ago, Vancan said:

 

Definitely lit a fire under JT, Brock, Quinn.  Crosby said he was one of the best coaches he ever had, and was just an assistant then. 

Crosby is a winner and wants to win

RT puts the team before a player and is honest with the players, that is what good players appreciate

He seems like a players coach to me

He even takes responsibility in that him and the coaches can do things to mix it up

Ultimately though it is the players that play and if they are playing together as a team

Every coach has a shelf life and i am liking the one we have to teach the team accountability without being a loose cannon to get his point across

[Reznor]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I dunno, might have been the fact the Canucks played a structured defence because I sure didn't feel nervous about anything in the 3rd.  In fact, it felt like the Canucks had the better grade A opportunities.

 

I'm mixed. I see his point - where it isn't realistic to expect to win games being outshot by triple. But despite the shot discrepancy, I too still think they played decent in the 3rd. 

 

DeSmith played excellent throughout - and I think having confidence in the goalie helps both players and fans alike not get scared any time the opposition has possession. He certainly kept us in early.

[Ballisticsports]

8 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I doubt it's permanent. Toccchet I think, was trying to send him a message. I'd be shocked if this is permanent. More then likely the coach's attempt at a kick 

in the pants and get him more motivated. I highly doubt he stays on the 4th line. That's nuts for everyone. When Kuzmenko says he understands, I'm not

convinced he really does. 

You could be right about not understanding- even last year BB said some nights he is just not there

You would be a bad coach to be left on the top line, and you were continually not doing what the coach wanted you too

Other players would lose respect, and just play for points and contracts

If he is given a chance at top line (other than pp) I think it will be a short leash and each time he ignores what is expected, he will be moved off the line until he gets it

Hogs was there and worked his way up and I think Kuz will have to as well

His line was outshot 5-0 last night and needs to hustle more

[TheGuardian]

43 minutes ago, dannydog said:

Petey is trying to play RT game style. He’s gotten much better at it also IMO. But I agree it takes him of the most successful parts of his game in the pass interceptions and takeaways. I like RT play systems but believe not all players adapt the best and should be allowed to play to what got them to the NHL. Kuzy be a prime example. Petey’splay  has kinda sunk that line more than Kuzy and Miks play has.A good coach should put players in positions to win using the best attributes each has but within the system he wishes.

When a team has 3 architects getting the right mix takes time. What Tocchet is doing is trying to eliminate or shorten time. That's done by dumbing the game down. That is the simple way. But he is still putting square pegs in round holes.

42 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Sure it's been win one lose one for a stretch. Under Green or Bruce it's a 10 game losing streak and we're all playing the lottery sim.

 

I'm enjoying watching the team learn how to pull their heads out and adapt within a game and win. 

 

It does feel to me like another good stretch is coming.

 

Miller was a beast again last night.

The team should be better with the improvement of defence players alone.

15 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Crosby is a winner and wants to win

RT puts the team before a player and is honest with the players, that is what good players appreciate

He seems like a players coach to me

He even takes responsibility in that him and the coaches can do things to mix it up

Ultimately though it is the players that play and if they are playing together as a team

Every coach has a shelf life and i am liking the one we have to teach the team accountability without being a loose cannon to get his point across

RT has the gift of the gab. He is a good speaker, his years on TV taught him subtle ways to get under the skin.

Every time he explains something to the media it is a backhanded way to talking to the team. A little insulting sometimes without directing at some players.

 

I

[Goal_thecup]

11 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

After degame, brah. 

De Miller d'also.

[Ballisticsports]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Like probably everyone on this site, was hoping Kuzmenko could become, EPs longtime wing mate.   I also don't mind Tochett exploring different line combos for EP, given what sort of pay cheque he's going to command.    Guys who get paid what he's likely going to get, should be capable of driving a line with whomever.   Barkov, Stamkos, Point, ... to name a few.     Also think Lafferty is there to provide some size.    Mikheyev is a swiss army knife.   Could add value to the Mathews line, or play in the bottom six.    Our first line so far this year,  as far as who plays who, had mostly been the Miller line up against the other teams best players.  

 

 So it's not like EPs been hung out to dry either.   If you want to be the best, that's a great start, but you also have to be the best.   Tactically, Tochett's trying to get Kuzmenko to play his system.    He does have to be careful...  Accountability sometimes requires an example.    Myers your next? 

I think Foote is in charge of handling the defence though of who plays where, how much etc

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

When a team has 3 architects getting the right mix takes time. What Tocchet is doing is trying to eliminate or shorten time. That's done by dumbing the game down. That is the simple way. But he is still putting square pegs in round holes.

The team should be better with the improvement of defence players alone.

RT has the gift of the gab. He is a good speaker, his years on TV taught him subtle ways to get under the skin.

Every time he explains something to the media it is a backhanded way to talking to the team. A little insulting sometimes without directing at some players.

 

I

Gaurdian who do you think we should acquire to coach the team?   Seriously would like to know.   We had a wrestling "let's have fun", best experienced coach available.   Would you like Babcock?   Sure hope not.   And do you seriously think Ian Cole is a solid second pairing to build around?   Yikes.  Hate to say this, but in PIT, when they won their two cups, Ian Cole was a 4/5 on deeper  teams and that's in his prime.    Now he's just 34 year old Ian Cole.    At least they acquired two good 5c's with upside in Soucy and Zadorov.     Schenn was = to Cole IMO. 

 

Yes they've improved the defense.  From bad, to below average to average and now above average.    Can't expect miracles from our roster.   At the start of the season most experts had us finishing 6th.  In our division.  Pay attention man.   It's not coaching. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Gaurdian who do you think we should acquire to coach the team?   Seriously would like to know.   We had a wrestling "let's have fun", best experienced coach available.   Would you like Babcock?   Sure hope not. 

Basically another version of Mike Keenan.

 

Bruce was a solid "interm" choice.  A placeholder/transitional type of head coach you want.  Not one you really want around long-term.  Too bad, as like Willie Desjardins, I liked him personally.  Just not as permanent head coach.

Edited December 8, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Basically another version of Mike Keenan.

 

Bruce was a solid "interm" choice.  A placeholder/transitional type of head coach you want.  Not one you really want around long-term.  Too bad, as like Willie Desjardins, I liked him personally.  Just not as permanent head coach.

Bruce WITH the mustache ... now there is a cup winning coach!  
 

Still like to know for those who seem to have a button on Tochett.  Of who was available, who would they have liked?  Or if we are to fire him, who would you like (and that's totally insane given our record...that start was 100% on Tochett and his crew). 

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Bruce WITH the mustache ... now there is a cup winning coach!  
 

Still like to know.  Who you'd like of who's available.   Woodcroft? 

The guy currently behind the bench.

 

I'm glad the Oilers got rid of Woodcroft (since I don't think he was a bad coach & I enjoy them making mistakes)

Edited December 8, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

The guy currently behind the bench.

 

I'm glad the Oilers got rid of Woodcroft (since I don't think he was a bad coach & I enjoy them making mistakes)

Yes the guy currently behind the bench.   Neilson wasn't perfect, just the perfect coach at the right time and wouldn't have become the hottest team in the league without him (17-3 down the stretch...going to the final wasn't  a complete fluke .. and we beat the Habs in their own barn after a 23 or so unbeaten streak in 82).     Tochett isn't a lame duck coach like Rick Ley or that guy who always just coached juniors, and several others we've had over the years.     I also don't think Green was either.   He actually punched above where we should have finished.   Good grief.  Call a spade a spade folks (not you!) we were a bad team for years.   Once we had a mediocre team and got the bubble out of it.   That's about it.   With crap goaltending, we'd of been bottom feeders during the Green era with our young stars or without.    Coaching hasn't, and isn't the problem.   This year, like the Bruce bump and some of Greens time, we are ahead of the game.   And a lot to be optimistic about too.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[Vancan]

9 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

When a team has 3 architects getting the right mix takes time. What Tocchet is doing is trying to eliminate or shorten time. That's done by dumbing the game down. That is the simple way. But he is still putting square pegs in round holes.

The team should be better with the improvement of defence players alone.

RT has the gift of the gab. He is a good speaker, his years on TV taught him subtle ways to get under the skin.

Every time he explains something to the media it is a backhanded way to talking to the team. A little insulting sometimes without directing at some players.

 

I

I would suggest not paying to close attention to what he, or anyone says to the media. What he or they show us on TV is not what is translated in the room. 

Also he just as fast if not faster to give credit when its due. 

Is he trying to shorten time? Of course he is, we don't have much time left in this now not overly young team. Panic time? absolutely not, but our learning curves have mostly came and recently left, step on the gas while its still full. Lets not end up like the Leafs and waist the talent "grooming and growing" these adult professional athletes way to long.

Gift of gab? Maybe but he is also a 3X Stanley cup champ, Canada cup 2X, World cup, Hall of famer, countless awards and admiration coaching some of the greatest ever.

My thoughts he gives zero fu*ks about what he says in the media and everyone else should care just as much. 

He has this dressing room dialed in with the likes we have not seen since Pat Quinn. 

I would bet it all on Toc and the vision he has and were quickly already starting to see with this team.

 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Vancan said:

I would suggest not paying to close attention to what he, or anyone says to the media. What he or they show us on TV is not what is translated in the room. 

Also he just as fast if not faster to give credit when its due. 

Is he trying to shorten time? Of course he is, we don't have much time left in this now not overly young team. Panic time? absolutely not, but our learning curves have mostly came and recently left, step on the gas while its still full. Lets not end up like the Leafs and waist the talent "grooming and growing" these adult professional athletes way to long.

Gift of gab? Maybe but he is also a 3X Stanley cup champ, Canada cup 2X, World cup, Hall of famer, countless awards and admiration coaching some of the greatest ever.

My thoughts he gives zero fu*ks about what he says in the media and everyone else should care just as much. 

He has this dressing room dialed in with the likes we have not seen since Pat Quinn. 

I would bet it all on Toc and the vision he has and were quickly already starting to see with this team.

 

Great post.  Same with the players.   Awesome post.   Imagine, for a minute, in their shoes.   Why I defended Miller...most of my mates would have begrudgingly done it, and probably swore a ton and said a lot worse.    This is knowing full well they shouldn't "act" a certain way.   Also would have been circa 88-2008.  So a different time.    It's ridiculous the media access now, like a nothing mid season game, is some sort of prize fight.   Way too much expectations on the players.   And demands on the coaches.   Why do they have to do so much PR?   

Edited December 8, 2023 by IBatch

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

This is an incredible stat

 

 

 

Canucks didn't win a game last year when Miller/Petey/Hughes didn't get on the scoresheet.

 

 

11 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

Just look at that third line doing work

 

Its pretty easy to see why. This 3rd line is going to come in handy in the playoffs.

[sxqhfeh]

2 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Has anyone ever seen Kuzmenko give a bodycheck? Has he hit anybody since being in the NHL? 

 

I criticize Petey now and then when he disappears, but at least Petey tries to hit occasionally. He's good defensively. 

You give Pettersson an easy pass why? Is he on vacation?

[EB43]

Who won the fights? Can’t find video

[TheGuardian]

2 minutes ago, Vancan said:

I would suggest not paying to close attention to what he, or anyone says to the media. What he or they show us on TV is not what is translated in the room. 

Also he just as fast if not faster to give credit when its due. 

Is he trying to shorten time? Of course he is, we don't have much time left in this now not overly young team. Panic time? absolutely not, but our learning curves have mostly came and recently left, step on the gas while its still full. Lets not end up like the Leafs and waist the talent "grooming and growing" these adult professional athletes way to long.

Gift of gab? Maybe but he is also a 3X Stanley cup champ, Canada cup 2X, World cup, Hall of famer, countless awards and admiration coaching some of the greatest ever.

My thoughts he gives zero fu*ks about what he says in the media and everyone else should care just as much. 

He has this dressing room dialed in with the likes we have not seen since Pat Quinn. 

I would bet it all on Toc and the vision he has and were quickly already starting to see with this team.

 

He also has a record of running a gambling ring.

 

A problem of him shortening time is that goes for players moving on too, he could speed up the rebuild.

 

But I do think he just want Boeser and Garland gone but the team tried and couldn't/can't trade them so he puts Kuzmenko, the most easiest to trade on the sacrificial pillar.

He minimizes his opportunities, blames him for something an entire line should be doing and keeps Kuz in the lime light.

 

He laffs at what he says to the media, so many just follow his lead and they don't even know it. He knows who will ask certain questions.

 

What makes you think they are all singing kumbaya in the room? It is early yet.

 

And yes, this is a win now team, right now. Allvin and Rutherford need to do more changes and to do that they have to create cap space, they didn't get it by trading Boeser and Garland during the summer and they turned down offers for Myers after his bonus was paid so Tocchet makes Kuz the man. But that will have other ramifications with the agent who has pushed very reasonable price talent this team's way. Piss that guy off and Zadorov goes somewhere else, then Mik asks for a trade and the team ends up with massive holes. Please this guy and there are two hulking forwards, like Tocchet likes in his stable for next year.

[Shift-4]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That sack of crap Maroon should be suspended one game for the instigator. 

and a second for the ugly

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Shift-4 said:

and a second for the ugly

Maroon shortly after the game

[JamesB]

5 hours ago, theochar said:

 

I don't remember the Sedins in their prime doing that forecheck thing or finishing their checks that's not what they were paid to do. ...

 

 

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

The Sedins were a lot more active on the boards than Kuzmenko is.   A lot more physical too, and way more active with their sticks.   And wouldn't even go there.   Kuzmenko, isn't a Sedin. ..

 

The issue is not whether Kuzy is the same type of player as the Sedins. He isn't. The issue is that the Sedins eventually succeeded by playing their game (the cycle game) instead of reverting to the dump and chase game that coaches often wanted. When Torts came in and forced the entire team, including the Sedins, into a defence-first game it was a terrible fit with predictably terrible results.

 

As for Kuzy, I do not know what is best. Tocc is a guy, like Torts, who wants players to play his system. period. And maybe that is the best approach. But, with a guy like Kuzy, I am not sure that trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is the best strategy. He is trying but the Tocc system plays to his weaknesses, not his strengths.

 

For guys like Miller, the Tocc system is great because that is the way Miller likes to play. For Hogz, learning to play the Tocc system has elevated his game. Same with Boeser. Same with Joshua. Petey would be good in any system. Lafferty and Blueger and Suter were acquired because they play Tocc's style naturally. But the Tocc system was not a good fit for Beauvillier and we know what happened to him. It is also not a good fit for Kuzy. Maybe Kuzy can learn to play effectively in the system. Maybe not. I am hoping for the best. And I think Kuzy's cap hit makes a trade difficult.