Brock Boeser - Long Term Core Player or "Pump and Dump" in the Summer?

[BPA]

To me it’ll all boil down to the cap hit.  I think Boeser is worth his current contract but not much more.  So thinking $6.75-7M.  If he’s thinking $8+, then trade him like Canucks did with Bo.

[Jester13]

Anyone thinking of trading Brock should start cheering for another team. He's a Canuck to his bones and will be extended long term to play with Miller for their careers. You don't give up on chemistry like that, especially when the character that goes with that pair is through the roof. Oh, and let's not forget about the production from them. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

You been watching Brock?  His skating is average, and he's gained some speed.   Like the Sedins eventually did too.    His hockey IQ is very high.  Also a very good passer.   And he's not "soft".   Folks were all over Toffoli and how "amazing" he was,  he's a total muffin on the boards, and his superpower is hiding from any sort of physical play, hiding from the other team, then suddenly appearing for easy tap ins.       Brocks only playoffs, he was more engaged than both TT and Pearson (who completely went into hiding against Vegas).    You're holding onto the past.   Even in the past, Brock was winning more board battles than losing (yes they track this), better than most RWs in the entire league.   Soft players stay away from the boards, and engaging infront of the net, Brock's not shy about either, although that's for sure one area, he's added to his toolbox this season, and it's paying dividends.     His line up (not last night though),  has also been faced up against the leagues very best at home most of the year. 

 

 This is one of the worst takes ive seen on Brock, aside from when he did seem disinterested for stretches under Bruce.   Who was quick to put him with guys like Dries.   Hogs was also in his doghouse.   

 

Seems like some folks just can't be happy when things work out.   Brocks a stand up character guy.    His cap for sure has been an issue, paying for potential comes with risks.    Enjoy the reward stage.   Hope he scores 50, and love to see a thread where people come and repent their sins against such a character, stand up guy.  

 

Brocks looking like our very own Patrick Sharp right now.   CHI doesn't win cups without him. 

 

I'll have to eat crow on this player.  For the longest time, all I thought Brock could do was score goals (granted, if that's all you can do at a high level, you can still get into the Hall of Fame - Luc Robitaille).  But under Tocchet, he's improved in so many other facets of the game. 

[iceman1964]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:27 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

What do you guys think we should do with Brock?

 

Possible reasons to keep Brock long term:  

 

On the one hand, Boeser has clearly rediscovered his passion for the game and seems to be flourishing under Tocchet. Boeser hasn't looked this good in a long time.  He snipes, he passes, and is playing a very solid 200 foot game.  On top of all this, Boeser is the longest standing member of the Canucks. Brock Boeser is also 26 years of age, and it was around this age that the Sedin twins and Naslund took leaps in their game. All of these are possible reasons for keeping Boeser. 

 

Possible reasons to move Brock in the Summer:  

 

Unlike Garland and now Kuzmenko, it might be easier to move Brock in order to navigate through our cap challenges.  Clearing cap would allow us to comfortably sign both Pettersson and Hronek long term while possibly bringing in another key piece in a more pressing position.  While Boeser is having a terrific year, skating has never been his strong suit and a strong argument can be made that the game will only get faster from here on out. How effective will Brock be if the game gets faster while Brock simultaneously starts to slow down with age?  Also, Boeser has a good heart, but we saw how drastically his game was affected when his father suffered health problems.  Now obviously, a parent's ailing health will affect anyone and this issue needs to be treated with great sensitivity, but players do react differently to these types of situations. If Brock experiences another personal tragedy, will he go back to being the player that we saw over the last two seasons?   

 

My personal opinion:    As much as I like and respect Boeser, I think I would lean towards moving him in the Summer.  Canucks need cap flexibility and Boeser's history suggests that he's too inconsistent to warrant receiving a long term deal.  

For me, it's Brock'ss injury history that makes me leery of signing him long term, my idea is trade him for a top D player and paired with Garland if possible, shore up the D and save some cap space. 

 Don't get me started on trading Kuzmenko, that's nothing but STUPIDITY started by our Vancouver lame brained, idiot media, we have the worst media in the entire league hands down! 

If we could trade the media, I'd be first in line in voting them out given half a chance, for a bag of pucks? Not even, like a cpl of old beat up pucks MAYBE, I've read a lot better well written articles in the CDC over the years.

 Anyway, no one can argue we're a tweak or so away from being legit and some added depth is needed as well.

 We'll be ok if we simply stay the course and continue to improve. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by iceman1964

[Hammertime]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

You been watching Brock?  His skating is average, and he's gained some speed.   Like the Sedins eventually did too.    His hockey IQ is very high.  Also a very good passer.   And he's not "soft".   Folks were all over Toffoli and how "amazing" he was,  he's a total muffin on the boards, and his superpower is hiding from any sort of physical play, hiding from the other team, then suddenly appearing for easy tap ins.       Brocks only playoffs, he was more engaged than both TT and Pearson (who completely went into hiding against Vegas).    You're holding onto the past.   Even in the past, Brock was winning more board battles than losing (yes they track this), better than most RWs in the entire league.   Soft players stay away from the boards, and engaging infront of the net, Brock's not shy about either, although that's for sure one area, he's added to his toolbox this season, and it's paying dividends.     His line up (not last night though),  has also been faced up against the leagues very best at home most of the year. 

 

 This is one of the worst takes ive seen on Brock, aside from when he did seem disinterested for stretches under Bruce.   Who was quick to put him with guys like Dries.   Hogs was also in his doghouse.   

 

Seems like some folks just can't be happy when things work out.   Brocks a stand up character guy.    His cap for sure has been an issue, paying for potential comes with risks.    Enjoy the reward stage.   Hope he scores 50, and love to see a thread where people come and repent their sins against such a character, stand up guy.  

 

Brocks looking like our very own Patrick Sharp right now.   CHI doesn't win cups without him. 

You mean this Patrick Sharp? https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/938 He dropped em with some real baddies.  

 

Board battle stats where are they kept I wan to see em. Oh you mean this?

 

Lets dive in to that. 52.5% Mathematically is only possible in a finite number of scenarios. He either won 21 of 40 or 42 of 80 but look at the rest of that list theres just no way he deserves to be on it. He may have the same % as Boon but Boon has double or tripple the number of actual board battles. Can you by chance share a link that shows he's in the top even half of the league in number of board battles engaged in? Yes he's soft take your rose coloured glasses off Brock has as many hits in his entire career as Miller had just last season. You could rag doll Demko right infront of him and he wouldn't do a damn thing. 

 

I'm thrilled Brock is having a great year. The books are cooked though like they were with Kuzz last year.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Hammertime

[CanucksJay]

It really depends on what his ask is for the next contract. 

Id keep him until then because I don't think he's a flash in the pan. 

We all knew the talent he had but was frustrated by his skating, lack of D awareness, and most importantly overall engagement. 

 

This last issue was obviously a very understandable reason. 

 

The skating and lack of D can be taught and Boeser learned it this summer. There's no going back now on those new skills. 

 

The Boeser we are seeing today is who he is and who we can expect in the future. 

As a result, it's also easier to decide whether to keep him or trade him depending on contract demands. 

 

We are not paying for potential or taking a risk. We are paying for what he is doing and will continue to do. 

[CanucksJay]

19 hours ago, Hammertime said:

You mean this Patrick Sharp? https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/938 He dropped em with some real baddies.  

 

Board battle stats where are they kept I wan to see em. Oh you mean this?

 

Lets dive in to that. 52.5% Mathematically is only possible in a finite number of scenarios. He either won 21 of 40 or 42 of 80 but look at the rest of that list theres just no way he deserves to be on it. He may have the same % as Boon but Boon has double or tripple the number of actual board battles. Can you by chance share a link that shows he's in the top even half of the league in number of board battles engaged in? Yes he's soft take your rose coloured glasses off Brock has as many hits in his entire career as Miller had just last season. You could rag doll Demko right infront of him and he wouldn't do a damn thing. 

 

I'm thrilled Brock is having a great year. The books are cooked though like they were with Kuzz last year.

 

 

 

That chart says 20-21?

 

Brock was terrible at puck battles until this year. 

This is the first year he looks good. 

 

Actually he looked good the year after covid bubble... Maybe that was the year of the stat... But anyway, I think Brock's board play has been fantastic this year so I'd be curious to look at his stats this year compared to other years 

[Haddy]

I was on the trade Boeser wagon for the last year+... but with Garlands low scoring, Kuzmenkos regression, and the fact we're already short a legit top 6 winger - we can't afford to lose Boeser. Especially since he's been playing a complete game this season, inflated shot % or not.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

On 12/10/2023 at 9:02 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

But under Tocchet, he's improved in so many other facets of the game. 

 

Maybe they found the tape labelled "Pronger - for Nikita"... 

[Jeremy Hronek]

17 hours ago, Haddy said:

I was on the trade Boeser wagon for the last year+... but with Garlands low scoring, Kuzmenkos regression, and the fact we're already short a legit top 6 winger - we can't afford to lose Boeser. Especially since he's been playing a complete game this season, inflated shot % or not.

 

After thinking about this thread a bit more, along with reading the views of many that have participated in this thread, I think I'll have to change my vote (i.e. Keep Brock instead of moving on).  

[IBatch]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:58 PM, Hammertime said:

You mean this Patrick Sharp? https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/938 He dropped em with some real baddies.  

 

Board battle stats where are they kept I wan to see em. Oh you mean this?

 

Lets dive in to that. 52.5% Mathematically is only possible in a finite number of scenarios. He either won 21 of 40 or 42 of 80 but look at the rest of that list theres just no way he deserves to be on it. He may have the same % as Boon but Boon has double or tripple the number of actual board battles. Can you by chance share a link that shows he's in the top even half of the league in number of board battles engaged in? Yes he's soft take your rose coloured glasses off Brock has as many hits in his entire career as Miller had just last season. You could rag doll Demko right infront of him and he wouldn't do a damn thing. 

 

I'm thrilled Brock is having a great year. The books are cooked though like they were with Kuzz last year.

 

 

 

lol.  Wow.   Ok you win.  I think Miller is soft compared to most guys who played in my era.   So where do we go from here? 

Brock can be our Sharp; as in he's the 30-40 goal scorer we need on this team.    Miller has what - a couple fights a year?   There is barely any fighting anymore.    There is also something called willingness to take a hit to make a play.    Brock doesn't shy away from that.    Plus he's going to the net.    This entire league is soft if you expect anyone to drop the gloves these days.    Fighting is almost gone.   It's rare that anyone fights his way into the league, and it's been mostly gone from the junior level for close to  a decade.   Not the same at all.   No punch ups (Theo Fluery style) It's the way the games played now.      

 

My main point is, folks got all freaky over TT, who barely played with us, but was in his 27-28 year window, and wanted to trade Brock who was injured.   Go watch the MIN series again, he took some hits (one I think was Soucy) and his face was so red it looked like it would explode.. meanwhile, these former LA support players, who folks were ga-ga over in their "toughness level" were completely neutered.   Brock couldn't score, but he was right out there doing his best as a 23 year old all the same.    And then people started piling on him - to trade him and sign TT.     We lost almost every game without Brock and with TT down the stretch ..: but he was the shiny new toy.

 

Also, like the Hockey Guy, I don't like the term "soft".    It's a stupid term.   Torts came in, thinking the Sedins were "soft".    TT avoided contact like a scared cat.   Pearson was average as far as contact goes, not some superstar ex cup winner was he.  Definitely no Dustin Brown.     Brock has a lot to offer this team, and we don't need to create this dialogue he's soft.    It's disingenuous if you're watching, and if you not then it's piling on. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by IBatch

[Hammertime]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

lol.  Wow.   Ok you win.  I think Miller is soft compared to most guys who played in my era.   So where do we go from here? 

Brock can be our Sharp; as in he's the 30-40 goal scorer we need on this team.    Miller has what - a couple fights a year?   There is barely any fighting anymore.    There is also something called willingness to take a hit to make a play.    Brock doesn't shy away from that.    Plus he's going to the net.    This entire league is soft if you expect anyone to drop the gloves these days.    Fighting is almost gone.   It's rare that anyone fights his way into the league, and it's been mostly gone from the junior level for close to  a decade.   Not the same at all.   No punch ups (Theo Fluery style) It's the way the games played now.      

 

My main point is, folks got all freaky over TT, who barely played with us, but was in his 27-28 year window, and wanted to trade Brock who was injured.   Go watch the MIN series again, he took some hits (one I think was Soucy) and his face was so red it looked like it would explode.. meanwhile, these former LA support players, who folks were ga-ga over in their "toughness level" were completely neutered.   Brock couldn't score, but he was right out there doing his best as a 23 year old all the same.    And then people started piling on him - to trade him and sign TT.     We lost almost every game without Brock and with TT down the stretch ..: but he was the shiny new toy.

 

Also, like the Hockey Guy, I don't like the term "soft".    It's a stupid term.   Torts came in, thinking the Sedins were "soft".    TT avoided contact like a scared cat.   Pearson was average as far as contact goes, not some superstar ex cup winner was he.  Definitely no Dustin Brown.     Brock has a lot to offer this team, and we don't need to create this dialogue he's soft.    It's disingenuous if you're watching, and if you not then it's piling on. 

I don't know what TT has to do with anything I get it you don't like TT or Pearson but it's moot. We need someone other than Miller in our top 6 who hits and will drop em if someone takes a run at our stars. If we add that player someone will have to come out of the top 6. 

[aGENT]

In due time, the one to move is Kuzmenko IMO. Lekkerimaki and Boeser as our eventual top 6 scorers is a good setup IMO. And one will be on a cheap ELC for 3 years (plus possible bridge deal), allowing us to give Boeser a moderate raise, and focus cap dollars elsewhere.

 

Now we need another top 6 capable grinder/puck hound, 2way, fast guy with size beyond Mikheyev to complement our skill guys.

 

Something like this in ~2 years :

"Skilled grinder", Pettersson, Lekkerimaki

Mikheyev, Miller, Boeser

Podkolzin, Raty, Hoglander 

Joshua, 4C, Lafferty

 

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hammertime said:

I don't know what TT has to do with anything I get it you don't like TT or Pearson but it's moot. We need someone other than Miller in our top 6 who hits and will drop em if someone takes a run at our stars. If we add that player someone will have to come out of the top 6. 

I like TT and Pearson.   Sorry if I clumped you into that group of folks who decided they are tough guys.   They aren't.   The point is, we can't label players soft.     Also agree we absolutely need a warrior in the top six.   Can you tell me, who the last one was?   Miller is a bit of a throwback for sure.    Kesler?  Probably. 

[Hammertime]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

I like TT and Pearson.   Sorry if I clumped you into that group of folks who decided they are tough guys.   They aren't.   The point is, we can't label players soft.     Also agree we absolutely need a warrior in the top six.   Can you tell me, who the last one was?   Miller is a bit of a throwback for sure.    Kesler?  Probably. 

Super weird that also coincides with the last time we were a competitive team. Honestly Brock would be great it's just really frustrating. I've literally never seen him get mad. Hit a guy full weight, step up for a teammate. I'm not saying he needs to goon it up. But like "let em know you're there". If we get into a playoff war we're going to need to have a pack mentality. Face wash a guy on a scrum do something. I'd settle for Jeff Carter out of him.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Hammertime

[24K]

This gonna really depend on how Lekky turns out and what Brock wants.

 

Though the scale may be tilted depending how Kuz situation turns out. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by 24K

[Hammertime]

1 hour ago, 24K said:

This gonna really depend on how Lekky turns out and what Brock wants.

 

Though the scale may be tilted depending how Kuz situation turns out. 

I think Kuzz is gone  the ransom he would have pulled at last deadline on league min. I though it was a ridiculous signing not because Kuzz is bad more so that even with him putting up 40 (Brock round up treatment) our top 6 didn't have any spice.

 

When it comes to Brock and Kuz thats 12+m spent on 2 guys who have one spot to play in. if one scores 40 the other will score 15. Now we see it's Brocks turn on the gravy boat. Again. Our top 6 still has no spice. This is why we see guys like Di Guiseppe/Lafferty moonlighting as top 6 players. 

[Hammertime]

#2 goal from Brock tonight against tampa wow that was nice. 

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Hammertime said:

I think Kuzz is gone  the ransom he would have pulled at last deadline on league min. I though it was a ridiculous signing not because Kuzz is bad more so that even with him putting up 40 (Brock round up treatment) our top 6 didn't have any spice.

 

When it comes to Brock and Kuz thats 12+m spent on 2 guys who have one spot to play in. if one scores 40 the other will score 15. Now we see it's Brocks turn on the gravy boat. Again. Our top 6 still has no spice. This is why we see guys like Di Guiseppe/Lafferty moonlighting as top 6 players. 

Brock last night: 

[HKSR]

I don't think Kuz or Boeser are going anywhere.  We're gonna need both of them.  Last year Kuz was on an unsustainable shooting % and this year Brock is on the same one.  When they both average out, I'd say we have two 25 to 35 goal scorers rather than either of them being 40 to 50 goal guys.

[Coconuts]

I think we keep Brock, I think both the Canucks and Kuzmenko move on. I think it'll be one or the other, both Brock and Kuz are due for new deals in the same offseason.

 

Brock's shooting percentage isn't sustainable the same way Kuzmenko's wasn't last year, but I think his overall two-way game is better and that'll probably be the difference. Not only that, but Brock's more likely to give us a better deal given his deep roots here. 

 

I think we ultimately look for a different kind of player to slot into Kuzmenko's spot, whether that be an internal replacement, a trade acquisition, or a UFA. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Coconuts

[Jeremy Hronek]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:41 AM, IBatch said:

lol.  Wow.   Ok you win.  I think Miller is soft compared to most guys who played in my era.   So where do we go from here? 

Brock can be our Sharp; as in he's the 30-40 goal scorer we need on this team.    Miller has what - a couple fights a year?   There is barely any fighting anymore.    There is also something called willingness to take a hit to make a play.    Brock doesn't shy away from that.    Plus he's going to the net.    This entire league is soft if you expect anyone to drop the gloves these days.    Fighting is almost gone.   It's rare that anyone fights his way into the league, and it's been mostly gone from the junior level for close to  a decade.   Not the same at all.   No punch ups (Theo Fluery style) It's the way the games played now.      

 

My main point is, folks got all freaky over TT, who barely played with us, but was in his 27-28 year window, and wanted to trade Brock who was injured.   Go watch the MIN series again, he took some hits (one I think was Soucy) and his face was so red it looked like it would explode.. meanwhile, these former LA support players, who folks were ga-ga over in their "toughness level" were completely neutered.   Brock couldn't score, but he was right out there doing his best as a 23 year old all the same.    And then people started piling on him - to trade him and sign TT.     We lost almost every game without Brock and with TT down the stretch ..: but he was the shiny new toy.

 

Also, like the Hockey Guy, I don't like the term "soft".    It's a stupid term.   Torts came in, thinking the Sedins were "soft".    TT avoided contact like a scared cat.   Pearson was average as far as contact goes, not some superstar ex cup winner was he.  Definitely no Dustin Brown.     Brock has a lot to offer this team, and we don't need to create this dialogue he's soft.    It's disingenuous if you're watching, and if you not then it's piling on. 

 

Very interesting points about Brock and Toffoli.  

 

At the time, I wasn't quite sure as to why we proceed forward with Boeser instead of TT but your post above is an excellent explanation.  

 

Management must have seen the same thing at the time.  

 

 

[TheGuardian]

I have noticed the last few games that players have been passing up really good scoring opportunities to try to feed Boeser.

My guess it to inflate his trade value

Ovechkin comparison was flawed, Ovy was really fast when he was Brock's age, a bull knocking players around all over the place. Even Cherry was saying he should cut back on the hitting because he was such a gifted goal scorer and all the hitting would take a toll. He was wrong.

Now Ovy is slow because he is old. Not suddenly gifted with a generous spirit. He goes to his marks for shots.

Boeser goes to his marks for shots, he gets empty net opportunities to enhance goal totals

 

Obviously I think he should be traded regardless of the goals. They would be replaced as were the Sedins now and Horvat.

 

Goal scorers may be hard to find but not most of the goals he is scoring, it isn't like he is sniping them or many of them. The type of goals he is scoring could be by most net front presence players being fed. They aren't like Draisaitl's, Ovy's, Bedard's, Fantilli's, Krieger's, Miller's, Pettersson's, the list is long of players that generate their own goals or snipe from a distance.

 

I hope the team keeps feeding him so when he gets close to 30 there will be another Islanders team stepping up to make a trade.

 

Fans have to remember they, team and agent, tried most of last season to trade him and his agent asked to be allowed to try to find a trade, the agent only works on the instructions of the client, player. He wanted out. Once that decision is made and agreed to that should be it, done, finished only the time needed to complete. Now he has a higher value so a trade can be easier.

 

The 6.6 mil will be used for improvement, to make the team better after than with him. The most important name on a jersey should be the one on the front.

 

[Tusk]

On 12/9/2023 at 2:01 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

One thought that had crossed my mind:  

 

1. Completely commit to Brock Boeser and lock him up long term.  

 

2. Package Kuzmenko and Lekkerimaki in a 'hockey deal' of some kind for a youngish power forward left winger.  

 

End result = Pettersson (C), Hronek (D), Boeser (LW), Miller (2C) and *LW'er* all locked up long term.  Hughes (D) and Willander (D) would eventually join the long term list as well.  

I absolutely sympathise with this for cap space. However I love both of the guys.

Can you imagine if we could all keep the whole frigging team as it is?

 

What if the solution is Myers signs a real deal, we drop Cole.  Maybe thats enough Cap to keep everyone if Petey does a JT deal.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Boeser is giving Matthews a run for his money. That's insane. He has basically lead the league in scoring for most of the season so far and we're over a quarter of the way through. He's scoring lots of different types of goals but mainly a lot of banging and crashing in rebounds in front of the net. That's not flukey, and not something that will go away with time - that's consistent production. If he was scoring more off his shot then that's a different story, but I think most of his goals are dirty greasy goals and they'll always be there. 

We could trade him but right now he's still only young at 26. We see Miller hitting his prime at 30 as a lot of players do these days. Boeser's good years might still be ahead of him. He's obviously on pace for a rediculous 98 points and 60 goals. I think trading him now would be the worst time to do it because he might only just be getting started. Imagine if he has a few 40-60 goal seasons over the next few years...

 

We stuck with him this far, through thick and thin, and now we're reaping the rewards so no need to trade him. Besides, what do we need - a solid top-6 forward. Boeser is one of the best first line wingers in the league right now.