Brock Boeser - Long Term Core Player or "Pump and Dump" in the Summer?

[Tusk]

11 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

I have noticed the last few games that players have been passing up really good scoring opportunities to try to feed Boeser.

My guess it to inflate his trade value

Ovechkin comparison was flawed, Ovy was really fast when he was Brock's age, a bull knocking players around all over the place. Even Cherry was saying he should cut back on the hitting because he was such a gifted goal scorer and all the hitting would take a toll. He was wrong.

Now Ovy is slow because he is old. Not suddenly gifted with a generous spirit. He goes to his marks for shots.

Boeser goes to his marks for shots, he gets empty net opportunities to enhance goal totals

 

Obviously I think he should be traded regardless of the goals. They would be replaced as were the Sedins now and Horvat.

 

Goal scorers may be hard to find but not most of the goals he is scoring, it isn't like he is sniping them or many of them. The type of goals he is scoring could be by most net front presence players being fed. They aren't like Draisaitl's, Ovy's, Bedard's, Fantilli's, Krieger's, Miller's, Pettersson's, the list is long of players that generate their own goals or snipe from a distance.

 

I hope the team keeps feeding him so when he gets close to 30 there will be another Islanders team stepping up to make a trade.

 

Fans have to remember they, team and agent, tried most of last season to trade him and his agent asked to be allowed to try to find a trade, the agent only works on the instructions of the client, player. He wanted out. Once that decision is made and agreed to that should be it, done, finished only the time needed to complete. Now he has a higher value so a trade can be easier.

 

The 6.6 mil will be used for improvement, to make the team better after than with him. The most important name on a jersey should be the one on the front.

 

You will be complaining about Petterson after his new contract. boes never claimed to be a superstar. I mean, hes only getting what, 1.2 million more than Garlund.

 

Put away the axe and pour a glass of wine

[iceman1964]

13 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I absolutely sympathise with this for cap space. However I love both of the guys.

Can you imagine if we could all keep the whole frigging team as it is?

 

What if the solution is Myers signs a real deal, we drop Cole.  Maybe thats enough Cap to keep everyone if Petey does a JT deal.

I'm not sure that's necessary, I see Myers and Garland traded for picks and/or prospects, even if we have to take a bit of a hit to get it done, and the covid debt being erased soon will help as well.

So imo, taking a bit of a temporary hit and bringing up guys from the farm to be a stopgap in the meantime won't be that much of a big deal i don't think.

Yes I could be wrong but I believe JR/PA already have a plan for it, if they didn't I'd be surprised.

Edited December 15, 2023 by iceman1964

[TheGuardian]

2 minutes ago, Tusk said:

You will be complaining about Petterson after his new contract. boes never claimed to be a superstar. I mean, hes only getting what, 1.2 million more than Garlund.

 

Put away the axe and pour a glass of wine

This isn't a complaint it is what he wanted for one and the value of the cap space Rutherford/Allvin can use for improvement.

 

Last year the team traded Horvat and his 30 goals, after the trade they won more games than before.

Fan favourites come and go. Remember the BraBarrion? Nice story

 

1.2 mil more than Garland who get 2 mil more than he should.

 

What types goals has he scored that couldn't be duplicated by Joshua or Lafferty or Hoglander or Kuzmenko oh wait Kuz was scoring those last year when he played that position on the PP.

 

I don't think Pettersson has called himself a super star but he is or can be or will be.

 

As far as calling for Pettersson to be traded after his next contract? If it is only 2 or 3 years? Ya, get on it right away and start the rebuild plans. The contracts and cap structure are set up to make that turn. The return for a top player like EP would get will beyond anything the Canucks have seen before and might turn a total rebuild into a quick retool. The team might not end up with another 120 point player but they could end up with three 80 point players.

The cap and contract structure would indicate a two year turn around in 2025/2026, 2026/2027 is possible.

[TheGuardian]

16 minutes ago, iceman1964 said:

I'm not sure that's necessary, I see Myers and Garland traded for picks and/or prospects, even if we have to take a bit of a hit to get it done, and the covid debt being erased soon will help as well.

So imo, taking a bit of a temporary hit and bringing up guys from the farm to be a stopgap in the meantime won't be that much of a big deal i don't think.

Yes I could be wrong but I believe JR/PA already have a plan for it, if they didn't I'd be surprised.

They will not trade Myers now, not when they are in a playoff spot. Defence is too hard to replace.

A forward is easier especially in the show where Tocchet's type of players can shine, bangers.

 

Despite all the social media Myers likes it here there is a very good chance he re-signs for 3 mil or less if term is used. Myers is still able to skate really good and the reach.

 

The plan might be seen in the contract term and cap hits in the near future. Rutherford indicated that team success was first rather than fan preferences. Moves would be made to improve the team. The cap is an issue they acknowledge and the two years of OEL' buyout are in front of their minds.

[iceman1964]

6 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

This isn't a complaint it is what he wanted for one and the value of the cap space Rutherford/Allvin can use for improvement.

 

Last year the team traded Horvat and his 30 goals, after the trade they won more games than before.

Fan favourites come and go. Remember the BraBarrion? Nice story

 

1.2 mil more than Garland who get 2 mil more than he should.

 

What types goals has he scored that couldn't be duplicated by Joshua or Lafferty or Hoglander or Kuzmenko oh wait Kuz was scoring those last year when he played that position on the PP.

 

I don't think Pettersson has called himself a super star but he is or can be or will be.

 

As far as calling for Pettersson to be traded after his next contract? If it is only 2 or 3 years? Ya, get on it right away and start the rebuild plans. The contracts and cap structure are set up to make that turn. The return for a top player like EP would get will beyond anything the Canucks have seen before and might turn a total rebuild into a quick retool. The team might not end up with another 120 point player but they could end up with three 80 point players.

The cap and contract structure would indicate a two year turn around in 2025/2026, 2026/2027 is possible.

A small interjection, in the middle of that concerning Kuz, I think people tend to forget what it would be like to adjust the style of your game from a pure goal scorer you have been all your life to inject more D and forechecking into it, in the fastest league in the world i can see that taking a bit of time to adjust but i have faith with the help of coaching that's going to happen, exactly when is the big question but he stated he knows it and is willing so getting it done shouldn't be that huge of a problem, trading him out i think would be a huge, huge mistake and i don't really see it happening. 

Maybe I have more faith in the coaching than most demanding he be traded but whatever, no reason to panic, but I think that's a Vancouver trait that's been with us a long time, is the sky falling in Kuz's case? Hardly.. 

 

[iceman1964]

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

They will not trade Myers now, not when they are in a playoff spot. Defence is too hard to replace.

A forward is easier especially in the show where Tocchet's type of players can shine, bangers.

 

Despite all the social media Myers likes it here there is a very good chance he re-signs for 3 mil or less if term is used. Myers is still able to skate really good and the reach.

 

The plan might be seen in the contract term and cap hits in the near future. Rutherford indicated that team success was first rather than fan preferences. Moves would be made to improve the team. The cap is an issue they acknowledge and the two years of OEL' buyout are in front of their minds.

Oh I didn't mean Myers traded right now, I mean in the off-season..  oops I best put some more info in there, maybe signed for another year at a smaller cap, your right but i also like what i see in Willander and i don't think it will take him very long to adjust to the north american style of play.

Edited December 15, 2023 by iceman1964

[Tusk]

2 hours ago, iceman1964 said:

A small interjection, in the middle of that concerning Kuz, I think people tend to forget what it would be like to adjust the style of your game from a pure goal scorer you have been all your life to inject more D and forechecking into it, in the fastest league in the world i can see that taking a bit of time to adjust but i have faith with the help of coaching that's going to happen, exactly when is the big question but he stated he knows it and is willing so getting it done shouldn't be that huge of a problem, trading him out i think would be a huge, huge mistake and i don't really see it happening. 

Maybe I have more faith in the coaching than most demanding he be traded but whatever, no reason to panic, but I think that's a Vancouver trait that's been with us a long time, is the sky falling in Kuz's case? Hardly.. 

 

Exactly.

We dont need to do anything, just figure out how to sign all these guys in JULY 2024...... OH WAIT, NOW WE ALREADY WON THE CUP, DO WE CARE?

[Jeremy Hronek]

7 hours ago, Tusk said:

I absolutely sympathise with this for cap space. However I love both of the guys.

Can you imagine if we could all keep the whole frigging team as it is?

 

What if the solution is Myers signs a real deal, we drop Cole.  Maybe thats enough Cap to keep everyone if Petey does a JT deal.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I see that happening.  *Maybe* you can get Petey at around 9.5 million but even that's being optimistic.  

 

For Pettersson, I think you're looking at around 10.5-11 million at minimum.  Hope I'm wrong.  

[futurefilm]

Boeser is becoming a more complete player and part of the credit to goes to Tocchet and JT. 

 

Its hard enough dealing with loved ones being ill at the best of times but imagine trying to help out and be there while being an NHL player, it def affected him as well as he had injuries that I think hadn't fully healed but he now healthy and looks likes he's having fun again. There has been games when him and JT w/di giuseppe have been our best line. 

 

As well kuzy seems to have fallen out of favour with tocchet for one reason or another so unsure when the EP/Kuzy duo will return. 

[TheGuardian]

2 hours ago, futurefilm said:

Boeser is becoming a more complete player and part of the credit to goes to Tocchet and JT. 

 

Its hard enough dealing with loved ones being ill at the best of times but imagine trying to help out and be there while being an NHL player, it def affected him as well as he had injuries that I think hadn't fully healed but he now healthy and looks likes he's having fun again. There has been games when him and JT w/di giuseppe have been our best line. 

 

As well kuzy seems to have fallen out of favour with tocchet for one reason or another so unsure when the EP/Kuzy duo will return. 

Get real.

Some plumber with a bad back that can't stop working and has his parents, both of them dying at the same time. With kids.

 

Can't have the spinal fusion because he can't take the time off work.

 

He ain't no multi millionaire with all the resources available him.

 

Boese isn't the only player to suffer a family tragedy, Markstom flew home and came back within 2 weeks.

 

At any rate it is over now. He is a player like any other, expectations should be the same.

 

I think they play him with Miller because he can't be effective anywhere else, he took Horvat's spot on the PP so naturally he should get some of those goals that Horvat got last year, any player put there would.

 

A mention of shaking up the lines.

 

Why is it Tocchet isn't moving Boeser around or putting Kuz with Pettersson. There seem to be some combinations he avoids for no apparent reason when looking over stat lines, possession, shot F and AG, zone time, GA, GF. If anything since he moved Kuz off Petterson's line that lines 5 on 5 scoring is way down.

Miller with Boeser isn't lighting up the lamp 5 on 5 either.

Edited December 17, 2023 by TheGuardian

[NoCupSyndrome]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:42 AM, Bob Long said:

If BB comes in under 7 then by all means lock him up.

 

He has developed into a great partner with JT and I don't think it's a flash, it seems like he's figured out how to engage more physically.

 

Could be a great line with hogs.

Agreed, wingers are wingers. Best to allocate large tickets to C and D positions

[IBatch]

On 12/15/2023 at 4:55 PM, TheGuardian said:

I have noticed the last few games that players have been passing up really good scoring opportunities to try to feed Boeser.

My guess it to inflate his trade value

Ovechkin comparison was flawed, Ovy was really fast when he was Brock's age, a bull knocking players around all over the place. Even Cherry was saying he should cut back on the hitting because he was such a gifted goal scorer and all the hitting would take a toll. He was wrong.

Now Ovy is slow because he is old. Not suddenly gifted with a generous spirit. He goes to his marks for shots.

Boeser goes to his marks for shots, he gets empty net opportunities to enhance goal totals

 

Obviously I think he should be traded regardless of the goals. They would be replaced as were the Sedins now and Horvat.

 

Goal scorers may be hard to find but not most of the goals he is scoring, it isn't like he is sniping them or many of them. The type of goals he is scoring could be by most net front presence players being fed. They aren't like Draisaitl's, Ovy's, Bedard's, Fantilli's, Krieger's, Miller's, Pettersson's, the list is long of players that generate their own goals or snipe from a distance.

 

I hope the team keeps feeding him so when he gets close to 30 there will be another Islanders team stepping up to make a trade.

 

Fans have to remember they, team and agent, tried most of last season to trade him and his agent asked to be allowed to try to find a trade, the agent only works on the instructions of the client, player. He wanted out. Once that decision is made and agreed to that should be it, done, finished only the time needed to complete. Now he has a higher value so a trade can be easier.

 

The 6.6 mil will be used for improvement, to make the team better after than with him. The most important name on a jersey should be the one on the front.

 

WTF is a Fantelli?  A type of pasta.  

[Chon derry]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:38 AM, TheGuardian said:

Get real.

Some plumber with a bad back that can't stop working and has his parents, both of them dying at the same time. With kids.

 

Can't have the spinal fusion because he can't take the time off work.

 

He ain't no multi millionaire with all the resources available him.

 

Boese isn't the only player to suffer a family tragedy, Markstom flew home and came back within 2 weeks.

 

At any rate it is over now. He is a player like any other, expectations should be the same.

 

I think they play him with Miller because he can't be effective anywhere else, he took Horvat's spot on the PP so naturally he should get some of those goals that Horvat got last year, any player put there would.

 

A mention of shaking up the lines.

 

Why is it Tocchet isn't moving Boeser around or putting Kuz with Pettersson. There seem to be some combinations he avoids for no apparent reason when looking over stat lines, possession, shot F and AG, zone time, GA, GF. If anything since he moved Kuz off Petterson's line that lines 5 on 5 scoring is way down.

Miller with Boeser isn't lighting up the lamp 5 on 5 either.

I lost my father I was 58. In 2016. It was pretty traumatic. But he was 90 and lived a good life and passed naturally just old. So I can’t imagine  if in 1985 at age 26 i lost my father. I would have been devistated. when you say ‘ get real’. I think that’s as real as it gets. Most people lose a parent when there in their mid life. And the parent is elderly. Both brock and his father were both young. Get real!

Edited December 21, 2023 by Chon derry

[spook007]

19 minutes ago, Chon derry said:

I lost my father I was 58. In 2016. It was pretty traumatic. But he was 90 and lived a good life and passed naturally just old. So I can’t imagine  if in 1985 at age 26 i lost my father. I would have been devistated. when you say ‘ get real’. I think that’s as real as it gets. Most people lose a parent when there in their mid life. And the parent is elderly. Both brock and his father were both young. Get real!

Spot on amigo. 
I lost my dad when he was 67 and my mum 5 years earlier. 
 

Its all very well to say get over it and get real, but folks deal with thing differently. And I actually find it had to imagine how tough it must be at the age of 28. 
 

There are lots of people, who suffers depressions as a result of loss... and as such maybe go easy on them, instead of putting them down. 
 

We all do the best we can under such circumstances, but some cope worse than others. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Brock has been more than just offence. He's low maintenance, been a good team mate. Great in the community.

Even at his low point, he wasn't Loui Eriksson bad. Now that he's turned into a more complete player, his numbers are up too.

Some fans are so fickle on here, wanting to trade players looking for the next shiny new toy.

[Chon derry]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Spot on amigo. 
I lost my dad when he was 67 and my mum 5 years earlier. 
 

Its all very well to say get over it and get real, but folks deal with thing differently. And I actually find it had to imagine how tough it must be at the age of 28. 
 

There are lots of people, who suffers depressions as a result of loss... and as such maybe go easy on them, instead of putting them down. 
 

We all do the best we can under such circumstances, but some cope worse than others. 

Brock was stuck playing hockey. While his father was fighting for his life. There is one similarity to my Story , living in prince rupert an 18 hour ferry to port hardy or a 16 hr drive to van. And then another hr on the ferry to get to Nanaimo and an hr and a bit to get to comox where my parents lived. So being away while all this stuff is happening. Isn’t easy knowing the eventual out come. Ya I made 7 trips to Vancouver island that year. Every successive trip I saw the deterioration. It’s tough. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Brock has been more than just offence. He's low maintenance, been a good team mate. Great in the community.

Even at his low point, he wasn't Loui Eriksson bad. Now that he's turned into a more complete player, his numbers are up too.

Some fans are so fickle on here, wanting to trade players looking for the next shiny new toy.

That's exactly what my brother said when Kuzmenko came in.   And what I said when Tyler Toffoli came in (and no I didn't have an iota or ire over either TT or Pearson joining the team, it's not like they were Canuck killers or anything).    Patience is a virtue.   Yes Brock didn't earn his previous deal.   He's making up for it now.    Thing that really rubbed me the wrong way was saying he was one dimensional, and soft.    Two silly hockey words that only apply to a few players league wide but are used more then they should be.   Brock didn't shy away from the boards, took hits to make plays etc in the bubble, yet CDCers kicked him to the curb as soon as TT showed up and was close to a PPG during a stretch where we barely won a game?   Strange fan behaviour.    

[Gurn]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:27 PM, IBatch said:

WTF is a Fantelli?  A type of pasta.  

Musical one hit wonder band

you might have heard it?

 

[TheGuardian]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:11 AM, Chon derry said:

I lost my father I was 58. In 2016. It was pretty traumatic. But he was 90 and lived a good life and passed naturally just old. So I can’t imagine  if in 1985 at age 26 i lost my father. I would have been devistated. when you say ‘ get real’. I think that’s as real as it gets. Most people lose a parent when there in their mid life. And the parent is elderly. Both brock and his father were both young. Get real!

 

How about a child? 

 

BUT the sun comes up the next day and I am still walking. I still have most of my marbles, although I now only have a 128 IQ

Edited December 24, 2023 by TheGuardian

[Chon derry]

22 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

What is this a one up?

How about a child? How about having to end that life?

Can you kill your child?

Can you even come close to imagining how that feels?

Try giving away organs while there is life still.

The decision maker! The person who says "yes" or no, HAS to say yes or no! The only one! 

Live with that! This is ongoing now.

 

Real?

 

Mom, step mom within a month. Father with dementia? Wifey moves out. Father volunteers you with mentally challenged sibling. Oh there is more too.

That is the last 3 to 5 years

BUT the sun comes up the next day and I am still walking. I still have most of my marbles, although I now only have a 128 IQ

Wtf are you going on about ? Don’t claim to be some  sort genius with a high iQ. Your first post that I responded to was rediculous. the whole conversation about Brock Boesers situation is lost in this rant. But congratulations on one upping my loss. I mean I can’t compare to that. I’m sure neither can brock Boeser. If you’ve actually gone thru that unscathed then it’s really no wonder how you would downplay somebody else’s loss.   you’ve made this all about the guardian. I never realized this was some kind of warped competition about who’s loss was greater ?  You’ve one upped  Everybody congratulations professor. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Chon derry

[TheGuardian]

21 hours ago, Chon derry said:

Wtf are you going on about ? Don’t claim to be some  sort genius with a high iQ. Your first post that I responded to was rediculous. the whole conversation about Brock Boesers situation is lost in this rant. But congratulations on one upping my loss. I mean I can’t compare to that. I’m sure neither can brock Boeser. If you’ve actually gone thru that unscathed then it’s really no wonder how you would downplay somebody else’s loss.   you’ve made this all about the guardian. I never realized this was some kind of warped competition about who’s loss was greater ?  You’ve one upped  Everybody congratulations professor. 

That rant was not really directed at you.

I have been listening to this story of his life's challenges for 2 years, how hard it was for him, like he was special and deserved special treatment.

 

I never have exposed myself the way I did in that post, I apologize to everyone we all have had life's challenges, none of us are special.

 

The IQ thing, well that was true but it isn't how smart you are, it is how you use it. It is sometimes a curse. Because memories don't fade as fast or at all.

Edited December 24, 2023 by TheGuardian

[canuck73]

All I can say is after this year with the numbers projected by our skill guys... we will never be able to afford everyone... it will become reality soon.

[Chon derry]

6 minutes ago, canuck73 said:

All I can say is after this year with the numbers projected by our skill guys... we will never be able to afford everyone... it will become reality soon.

All we as fans can hope for in that case is some will take the home town discount. We’re going to lose some  but there is hope with the young guys coming up. Willander. Eg.