[PGT] Hurricanes at Canucks, Dec.9th

[AnthonyG]

34 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is where we really lost against Boston in 2011, we didn't have enough size on defense, we started losing guys when they were dealing with Lucic and other big forwards.

Health was the number 1 reason we lost to Boston

Tim Thomas was the other number 1 reason we lost to Boston.

[Rubik]

1 hour ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

 

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, Barnstorm said:

Optional skate at noon. Not sure who attended.

[Barnstorm]

I don’t think this team has even hit its stride yet, 

 

It’s like a V-8 running on 7 cylinders, the  misfire is randomly moving around the firing order. 
 
In the time it takes for Carson Soucy and Pius Suter to get to get up to speed the rest will have synced and we’ll see some dominantly won games. 
 

 

[VegasCanuck]

13 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Health was the number 1 reason we lost to Boston

Tim Thomas was the other number 1 reason we lost to Boston.

Generally, that was where I was going with that. We lost a physical battle with Boston which resulted in injuries to players like Hamhuis and Raymond. Yes, there was also some REALLY questionable penalties including one suspension that, to this day, I think most would agree should never of happened. Didn't help that Colin Campbell was in charge of officiating and discipline at that time and his son was playing for Boston....

 

 

[spook007]

6 hours ago, The Duke said:

This is all true - however, Bo is also 2 years younger which counts for something.  
 

Allvin has done a good job shaping up the team in a hurry but those 2 years could have meant a longer window.
 

But with that said, Miller is certainly looking like the stronger player right now and showing no signs of slowing down.  Hopefully he stays healthy and productive as he goes.  At least we know he can flip to wing and still produce.
 

 

It is almost as if Miller is on a mission to show, how good a player he is... 

This is really good value for money just now... 

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

I don’t think this team has even hit its stride yet, 

 

It’s like a V-8 running on 7 cylinders, the  misfire is randomly moving around the firing order. 
 
In the time it takes for Carson Soucy and Pius Suter to get to get up to speed the rest will have synced and we’ll see some dominantly won games. 
 

 

The 7 cylinders is missing the 8th cylinder (Kuzmenko -- the 30 to 40 goal scorer isn't firing yet).

[EdgarM]

48 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

I get your point but must object to Motte being an example of a failure.

Structure, systems, and capable bodies now and this is still just the first real season for the new management.

Motte was probably the better one but we were still not successful at that time. He still never possesed the size and who knows if he was able to sustain his effectiveness in the playoffs. 

I agree, we aren't complete yet and I am excited to see what we can do when we are. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Barnstorm said:

Devils advocate;

Suppose your only time off work were Sunday’s and Monday’s and the Canucks rarely played on those days. It might be annoying to be in that position. 
 

I’m not saying anyone is entitled to have a schedule revolve around them however I can imagine some fans missing many games and feeling the schedule is lopsided. 

 

 

I get that it might suck but it just seems super weird and entitled to me. It's like the definition of third world problems.

 

Let me play devil's devils advocate. So say they change all the games they can to satisfy that person. Now the people who work on Sundays and Mondays are going to feel it's lopsided against them, so then we're going to have to switch every game to Wednesdays, and so on and so until we run out of days.

 

I mean if this was the NFL and you work Sunday's it's a bitch, but we're talking 82 games spread throughout a calendar year. It's pretty hard not to have games on all different days. They play hockey on all days of the week with Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays getting the most games. They have been doing it that way forever. If watching hockey is that important than get a different job. Most people don't work at 7 pm either. I like hockey so I adjust my schedule accordingly. All in all I think if you have a night job working between 7-10 pm I don't think you can expect to have the schedule adjusted just for you.

 

Just for kicks I've tabulated the days of games.

 

 

[Hairy Kneel]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

It is almost as if Miller is on a mission to show, how good a player he is... 

This is really good value for money just now... 

I honestly preferred JT right away over Bo. But never declared that that out of respect for Bo's tenure here. Bo gave us a lot of himself and was always in every game. But JT has the edge on gamesmanship and compete level. I was really impressed by his locker room heroics which must have intimidated Bo's sense of leadership.  I love the emotional aspect of rousting a locker room into being game ready. I never played collage bit I have played on football teams that got really 'fired up'. We've never had that type of leader before.  Hank, Naslund,even Trevor were pretty laid back. But at the time I could sense that it would cause a bit of tension in the locker room.  But man I love JT's passion. I'm glad he has a good relationship with Head Coach Rick Tocchet. 

[Barnstorm]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I get that it might suck but it just seems super weird and entitled to me. It's like the definition of third world problems.

 

Let me play devil's devils advocate. So say they change all the games they can to satisfy that person. Now the people who work on Sundays and Mondays are going to feel it's lopsided against them, so then we're going to have to switch every game to Wednesdays, and so on and so until we run out of days.

 

I mean if this was the NFL and you work Sunday's it's a bitch, but we're talking 82 games spread throughout a calendar year. It's pretty hard not to have games on all different days. They play hockey on all days of the week with Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays getting the most games. They have been doing it that way forever. If watching hockey is that important than get a different job. Most people don't work at 7 pm either. I like hockey so I adjust my schedule accordingly. All in all I think if you have a night job working between 7-10 pm I don't think you can expect to have the schedule adjusted just for you.

 

Just for kicks I've tabulated the days of games.

 

 

I agree that there’s no way to keep all the people happy all the time. Interesting to see the breakdown of game days. Thanks for putting that forward. In fairness to the op they weren’t wrong about Mon & Sun being slow. 
 

 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

You really do jump to that conclusion from no bases of what I am saying so here I will explain it

 

I think Vigneault is a great coach and he never won a Cup as a Coach

 

what we have seen is that coaches take time to become great coaches. Allan is a prime example of it and Tocchet seems to be following the some projection. Allan won the Jack Addams his first year with the Canucks only to miss the Playoff the next year. It would than be 3 more years to get to the Cup final. Prior to that He coached MTL and had a terrible record and at 1 point was not even coaching in the NHL sounds like Tocchet as well. Problem is this Core is already in it's prime and the window is NOW.

 

The Canucks can't afford to let a inexperienced coach go through the learning curve The Canucks can't afford 5 years.

 

There really isn't that much difference between AV's NHL coaching history prior to coming to Canucks, than that of Tocchets:

 

Alain Vigneault

 

MTL	1997–98	82	37	32	13	—	87	4th in Northeast	4	6	.400	Lost in Conference Semifinals (BUF)
MTL	1998–99	82	32	39	11	—	75	5th in Northeast	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
MTL	1999–00	82	35	34	9	4	83	4th in Northeast	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
MTL	2000–01	20	5	13	2	0	(12)	(fired)	—	—	—	—
MTL total		266	109	118	35	4			4	6	.400	1 playoff appearance

 

Rick Tocchet

 

TBL	2008–09	66	19	33	14	(52)	5th in Southeast	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
TBL	2009–10	82	34	36	12	80	4th in Southeast	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
ARI	2017–18	82	29	41	12	70	8th in Pacific	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
ARI	2018–19	82	39	35	8	86	4th in Pacific	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
ARI	2019–20	70*	33	29	8	74	5th in Pacific	4	5	.444	Lost in First Round (COL)
ARI	2020–21	56	24	26	6	54	5th in West	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
VAN	2022–23	36	20	12	4	(44)	6th in Pacific	—	—	—	Missed playoffs
Total		474	198	212	64			4	5	.444	1 playoff appearance

If you liked AV as a coach in Vancouver, why not Tocchet? 

They both came into a team with potential, while being rebuilt... 

 

There are as you say so many similarities between the two, and the fact that this teams window is now, should not detract us from believing Tocchet has it him to win with this team... If anything Tocchet has more NHL experience than AV had.

 

The fact our window is now, doesn't mean we can continue to be dominant , and maybe also continue to grow. 

 

In JR/PA we believe, and if they think Tocchet can lead this team, so should we......

Edited December 11, 2023 by spook007

[Blue]

4 hours ago, JayDangles said:

If it's and butts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas. 

You just totally misused that phrase. 

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, Rekker said:

Huh? Why would they put Hronek on the block? Maybe if he wants stupid money, but with another year left on his contact I doubt there has been any contract talks. 

 

That's the second time he's said that. It's very silly.

[spook007]

8 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I honestly preferred JT right away over Bo. But never declared that that out of respect for Bo's tenure here. Bo gave us a lot of himself and was always in every game. But JT has the edge on gamesmanship and compete level. I was really impressed by his locker room heroics which must have intimidated Bo's sense of leadership.  I love the emotional aspect of rousting a locker room into being game ready. I never played collage bit I have played on football teams that got really 'fired up'. We've never had that type of leader before.  Hank, Naslund,even Trevor were pretty laid back. But at the time I could sense that it would cause a bit of tension in the locker room.  But man I love JT's passion. I'm glad he has a good relationship with Head Coach Rick Tocchet. 

Absolutely love, what he brings to the team...

I was on the fence, as I liked Bo too... I felt he earned the right to be here, after having had to suffer through the previous 8 years of misery...

But I was also voting with my heart... 

That was the advantage of a clean out of management... No sentiments, but cool cash, for what we think you bring...

If was a slap in the face of Bo (team captain) to be offered less than JTM, who at times was a bit of a loose canon, and didn't always seem to have his heart in it...

However, JR/PA made their minds up quickly, and by the look of it, they definitely made the right choice.

The fact Tocchet seemed to find the switch that turned Miller in to a great player, has just made this a brilliant decision. 

$8M for a 200ft Centre, who is at the top (about) in the NHL scoring and brings a level of tenacity to his game, that Bo didn't, is a flipping steal... 

 

One of the concerns amongst fans, were how Miller would look at the end of his contract, and it may end up stinging us, but for now let us all enjoy it...

I'm sure we will be reminded by a fair few posters, should he fall over the cliff edge, like the Sedins did in a couple of years, but for now its great business...

 

And yes, his passion in infectious... I bet his team mates love him too....

[coolboarder]

5 hours ago, Dom said:

Why do we always play Saturday night and then not till Tuesday. Fucking despise the scheduling. 

4 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

As it happens, the Canucks get their scheduled time off around Christmas. Between their game on December 23rd and January 2nd they play once, on December 28th. So they have four days off for Christmas, then four more days after December 28th. The games in hand should be made up by then, but it will be hard sitting by and watching other teams catch up and maybe pass Vancouver in that time.

Well, better be happy that they get two days off, rest and recovery is the key.  They were playing every two days or back to back games for 3 weeks before this past week and they are fresher now, playing better.  They were on one win and one loss streak with that type of schedule.   They'll finally get some rest one game post Christmas and I think that it is a timely, to allow the guys be even more fresher for New Year's grind on the road despite playing fewer home game at that point before 7 games road trip.  It will allow Petey, and whoever else nagging with some minor injury but playing through it at end of next week.    Despite 7 games road trip, it's a lot easier in term of travel, including 5 nights in same city (3 games in 4 night).  They'll get home early after Columbus game rather than taking a red night flight home.    Just noticed an early game time start on a Monday, 10am PST in January.  I think we caught a break in term of scheduling despite the league trying to screw us with bad early season schedule.

5 hours ago, Grandmaster said:

Yup, our guys have played too many games. They need some days off. LA has 4 games in hand on us!

LA hasn't even entered in the grind meat yet.   That will not happen until post Christmas break.

 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Devron said:

So true Deb, it really is the same people though. I think they probably have the same perspective in life in general. 
 

I have been through Depression and Anxiety and that’s where those things want to take me too, always the negative. But I fight through it day in and out. Being positive in everyday life is important and important in the things we love too like hockey. 
 

I just can’t see much negative about this team. Sure it’s not the best in the league but it’s pretty damn good. We’ll be seeing playoffs for the first time in a long time and that damn exciting 

You're not alone amigo... Keep fighting... 

[Curmudgeon]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

It is almost as if Miller is on a mission to show, how good a player he is... 

This is really good value for money just now... 

 

When Miller was traded to Vancouver there was a happy convergence of opportunity, maturity and desire to become a great player. With 339 points in 311 games, he has been a leader since day one. So far I think he has a slight edge over Quinn as a way-too-early MVP award winner. Props to a management team that correctly recognized that retaining Miller and trading Bo was the best course of action. You can have Bo, who is calm, stoic, a good finisher but not a great distributor or you can have JT, who is boisterous, emotional, a good finisher and a good distributor. One says "Follow me" and the other says "Let's effin" go". I'll take the boisterous, emotional guy who is better than a point a game.

[EdgarM]

46 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Generally, that was where I was going with that. We lost a physical battle with Boston which resulted in injuries to players like Hamhuis and Raymond. Yes, there was also some REALLY questionable penalties including one suspension that, to this day, I think most would agree should never of happened. Didn't help that Colin Campbell was in charge of officiating and discipline at that time and his son was playing for Boston....

 

 

Physicality and Mental Toughness? I think it was a combination of a few things.

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

When Miller was traded to Vancouver there was a happy convergence of opportunity, maturity and desire to become a great player. With 339 points in 311 games, he has been a leader since day one. So far I think he has a slight edge over Quinn as a way-too-early MVP award winner. Props to a management team that correctly recognized that retaining Miller and trading Bo was the best course of action. You can have Bo, who is calm, stoic, a good finisher but not a great distributor or you can have JT, who is boisterous, emotional, a good finisher and a good distributor. One says "Follow me" and the other says "Let's effin" go". I'll take the boisterous, emotional guy who is better than a point a game.

Agree on all counts...  

Until he came to Vancouver he was playing around .5 maybe a bit higher point wise through his career, but he really took off here... 

 

And so absolute he is the player that will take the game by the scruff of the neck, when the Chips are down... He will do if Physically and verbally (while still p[laying to a high standard of hockey), where as Petey and QH does it with skills... 

[CanucksJay]

Here is a question. Is Carolina actually any good? The goalies are suspect. The also got their butts kicked on this road trip through Alberta and now through vancouver. They did not look all that impressive yesterday. Is this simply them in a slump or are they just not a good team?

[coolboarder]

3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Oilers have been a streaky team for years. They frequently go on long winning streaks. Don’t discount them completely because they had a bad start. 
Skinner has been playing better and they are winning a lot lately. 
We can’t do the win one lose one thing for much longer. 
Looks like the home stand has been good for getting some coaching in and the team is starting to look more focused last couple games (at least after first 10m against Minni). 

It's good thing that we got 6 points out from this season series against the Oilers.  We caught them at a right timing.  They are sure heating things up for themselves in chase of the playoff spot.   Don't have to see them again until April.  I still sure wish that we face LA early at its our freshest early in the season.  Scheduling is a suspicious trying to help a certain teams with better record after two months without earning them with a grinder type of schedule that every other teams are going through it.  I think that strength of schedule is at its easiest for LA that early though.  

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Here is a question. Is Carolina actually any good? The goalies are suspect. The also got their butts kicked on this road trip through Alberta and now through vancouver. They did not look all that impressive yesterday. Is this simply them in a slump or are they just not a good team?

 

I said, last year, that they needed to pivot to get them past the speed bump they're stuck on and they sat tight at the tdl.  Now, I think that their window is starting to close

 

[VegasCanuck]

7 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Physicality and Mental Toughness? I think it was a combination of a few things.

Yup, looking at it again, North / South hit. Shoulder square into his chest, Norton was admiring his pass and not watching in front of him. At worst, this was a 2 minute interference penalty, the 4 game suspension was laughable. That hit happens most nights in the NHL, the injury happened because he stopped watching what was ahead of him. If he passed and looked straight ahead, it's still a hard hit, but not an injury, IMO.

 

 

[coolboarder]

4 hours ago, -dlc- said:

(so Deb's hangover can be gone and she can focus clearly and use her cow bell safely and responsibly)

 

JJ: I didn't even have a drink at the game last night. Pacing myself because Christmas calories are coming. Prime rib and prawns > booze's empty calories.

 

 

On a serious note, our schedule always sucks and sets the team up to fail imo. It's feast/famine and we're thrust into a schedule that others are eased into out of the gates. But "it is what it is" and likely won't change so I've accepted it.

I would volunteer to be a NHL schedule maker and I would still put Canucks in a 8 games road trip but with better rest and recovery strategy while being on the road than what the NHL has done to them in their history.  The NHL has put them through 6 such trips cross-continental and with my type of schedule, I would limit them to 3 or 4 such cross-continental trips but with more breaks and less back to back games.  I also wanted to change the schedule matrix from 3 games conference games to two games then expand more games within the division. East-west type of schedule remains the same but it's playing against the Central division with 3 games is what I hate the most.