[Report]: Term the main priority for Nikita Zadorov’s camp in extension talks with Canucks

[CanucksJay]

13 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

Without diving to deep, I think on some level a guy like Zadorov is a little bit like Suter. When he’s in the lineup he’s very effective and makes the team better. But you have to be careful about over committing to those guys financially or in term because at the end of the day  they’re role players. 
 

Zadorov has been a really good add to the team (and I hope he sticks around), but just because he’s really good at what he doesn’t mean we should over commit OR expect him to suddenly morph into a different player than he’s been most of his career. 

I hear what you are saying but if you were to tank the rest of our D after Hughes and Hronek, what would it be? 

Is have it

Z, Soucy Cole Myers 

But not much separating those 4

But that technically means 2 of them are 3D and 4D respectively 

Edited December 27, 2023 by CanucksJay

[Rekker]

If Bear is worth 2 million per year. Zads is worth at least double that. 

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Rekker said:

If Bear is worth 2 million per year. Zads is worth at least double that. 

If Myers re-signs for 3, is Zads worth more? I mean we have just gotten used to overpaying for d-men because it sucked so much last year.

We cant spend %40 of the cap on defensemen.

We have some youth coming... I thing Z can see that too. If he wants to stay it should be resonable. Drop Cole unless he does the retirement amount.... Heronik is already gonna wanna be paid like Hughes but is he worth it?

 

[Rekker]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

If Myers re-signs for 3, is Zads worth more? I mean we have just gotten used to overpaying for d-men because it sucked so much last year.

We cant spend %40 of the cap on defensemen.

We have some youth coming... I thing Z can see that too. If he wants to stay it should be resonable. Drop Cole unless he does the retirement amount.... Heronik is already gonna wanna be paid like Hughes but is he worth it?

 

Zads is a unicorn and finally our own unicorn. I would be happy with 4.5 per for Zads. If Myers wants 3 or 3.5 I would do one year. Then see how the youth can fill in. A guy like Zads makes everyone play larger than they are. If this team has intentions on winning a cup it will need to be better than LA or Vegas or the Avs and all those teams have some big skilled players that will need to be moved.

[AatuD2]

1 hour ago, Rekker said:

Zads is a unicorn and finally our own unicorn. I would be happy with 4.5 per for Zads. If Myers wants 3 or 3.5 I would do one year. Then see how the youth can fill in. A guy like Zads makes everyone play larger than they are. If this team has intentions on winning a cup it will need to be better than LA or Vegas or the Avs and all those teams have some big skilled players that will need to be moved.

 

4.5 million would be okay over 4 years. 

 

What if he wants 4.5 million over 7 years? 

[Rekker]

10 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

4.5 million would be okay over 4 years. 

 

What if he wants 4.5 million over 7 years? 

Ooof. That's too long. He'd have to lower AAV for that long a term?

Edited December 28, 2023 by Rekker

[N4ZZY]

15 hours ago, Rekker said:

Ooof. That's too long. He'd have to lower AAV for that long a term?

4M for 7 years. 

 

I think 7 is too long personally, if he wants that kind of term, then maybe he needs to take less than 4M. 3.75M for 7 years, 4M for 6 years, etc. 

 

[Coryberg]

17 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I hear what you are saying but if you were to tank the rest of our D after Hughes and Hronek, what would it be? 

Is have it

Z, Soucy Cole Myers 

But not much separating those 4

But that technically means 2 of them are 3D and 4D respectively 

Best way to look at that would be time on ice per game...

Cole 19:32

Myers 19:02

Zadorov 18:08

Soucy 16:52

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Best way to look at that would be time on ice per game...

Cole 19:32

Myers 19:02

Zadorov 18:08

Soucy 16:52

 

Best way would actually be to look at everything in context.. Skill set/ability, usage, TOI, how much penalty/PP time in a given game etc.

 

For example, some times a defensive  2B/3A guy like Tanev would only have the 3rd or 4th most ice time, if the team has more PPs than PKs. Him having the 4th most ice time, doesn't make him a #4D.

 

I haven't looked, but I'd wager Myers gets extra offensive minutes/usage (even if not PP) over Zadorov, as he's always had more of an offensive skill set (and is producing well this season with better team structure and actual complementary partners for once).

 

Not sure that makes him a better/"higher" D but regardless, they're not far off eachother. IMO they're both capable of being complementary guys (varying skill sets) on a 2nd pair (or REALLY good, if expensive, 3rd pair guys).

 

That said, knowing what prospects we have coming up, their respective skill sets, ages etc, I know which one I'd prefer to extend.

 

 

[The Duke]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Best way would actually be to look at everything in context.. Skill set/ability, usage, TOI, how much penalty/PP time in a given game etc.

 

For example, some times a defensive  2B/3A guy like Tanev would only have the 3rd or 4th most ice time, if the team has more PPs than PKs. Him having the 4th most ice time, doesn't make him a #4D.

 

I haven't looked, but I'd wager Myers gets extra offensive minutes/usage (even if not PP) over Zadorov, as he's always had more of an offensive skill set (and is producing well this season with better team structure and actual complementary partners for once).

 

Not sure that makes him a better/"higher" D but regardless, they're not far off eachother. IMO they're both capable of being complementary guys (varying skill sets) on a 2nd pair (or REALLY good, if expensive, 3rd pair guys).

 

That said, knowing what prospects we have coming up, their respective skill sets, ages etc, I know which one I'd prefer to extend.

 

 

I like ice time as a cheat sheet but you’re right on this as well.  Myers will also get more ice because he’s soaking some up from Juulsen. Whereas Cole, Soucy and Zadorov are all able to handle 18+

[Tusk]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Best way would actually be to look at everything in context.. Skill set/ability, usage, TOI, how much penalty/PP time in a given game etc.

 

For example, some times a defensive  2B/3A guy like Tanev would only have the 3rd or 4th most ice time, if the team has more PPs than PKs. Him having the 4th most ice time, doesn't make him a #4D.

 

I haven't looked, but I'd wager Myers gets extra offensive minutes/usage (even if not PP) over Zadorov, as he's always had more of an offensive skill set (and is producing well this season with better team structure and actual complementary partners for once).

 

Not sure that makes him a better/"higher" D but regardless, they're not far off eachother. IMO they're both capable of being complementary guys (varying skill sets) on a 2nd pair (or REALLY good, if expensive, 3rd pair guys).

 

That said, knowing what prospects we have coming up, their respective skill sets, ages etc, I know which one I'd prefer to extend.

 

 

But you dont even talk about CAP, next years cap, how long the contract is.... these are very important things. We cant have a bunch of 3-4 million dollar guys who play bottom 3 defense. And for judging defense, we should get a goalie perspective.

Fans tend to like defense that score, get points ect and forget about the friggin goals against.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, The Duke said:

I like ice time as a cheat sheet but you’re right on this as well.  Myers will also get more ice because he’s soaking some up from Juulsen. Whereas Cole, Soucy and Zadorov are all able to handle 18+

As always, context matters

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Tusk said:

But you dont even talk about CAP, next years cap, how long the contract is.... these are very important things. We cant have a bunch of 3-4 million dollar guys who play bottom 3 defense. And for judging defense, we should get a goalie perspective.

Fans tend to like defense that score, get points ect and forget about the friggin goals against.

 

Oh I agree...I was actually writing a mention of cap etc in that post, but felt I was getting long winded and deleted it

 

Besides, what we really need if we're spending cap, is a Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub type at +/- $4-$5m that allows us to play them with Hughes, and Hronek with Zadorov for the most part. Soucy can anchor the 3rd pair with a kid on an ELC, or a very on a cheap contract

 

Hughes $7.85, Trade/sign +/-$4.5

Zadorov +/-$4.25, Hronek +/-$7.5

Soucy $3.25, ELC/vet $1.25

 

Friedman, Juulsen (or similar) <$1m each

[Coryberg]

4 hours ago, The Duke said:

I like ice time as a cheat sheet but you’re right on this as well.  Myers will also get more ice because he’s soaking some up from Juulsen. Whereas Cole, Soucy and Zadorov are all able to handle 18+

Soucy has never cracked the 17 minute average toi mark in his 6 seasons played. Zadorov has only went past 19 minutes 3 times in his 11 seasons. 2 of those seasons were the worst of his career and the one good season was 7 years ago. He is a lot like Myers where the more he plays the more mistakes get made. He is a great #5 who can sub in at 4 in the case of injuries but if you are relying on him to put up 20 minutes on a regular basis you are most definitely not a contender.

 

If people want to look at everything in context they can reference zadorovs entire career. He is 11 seasons in and he is what he is.

[Alflives]

Just now, Coryberg said:

Soucy has never cracked the 17 minute average toi mark in his 6 seasons played. Zadorov has only went past 19 minutes 3 times in his 11 seasons. 2 of those seasons were the worst of his career and the one good season was 7 years ago. He is a lot like Myers where the more he plays the more mistakes get made. He is a great #5 who can sub in at 4 in the case of injuries but if you are relying on him to put up 20 minutes on a regular basis you are most definitely not a contender.

 

If people want to look at everything in context they can reference zadorovs entire career. He is 11 seasons in and he is what he is.

What’s our record since getting big Z? Isn’t it something like 8-1-1? And he’s playing top for, no? 
The guy is a top four D. Soucy is a 5. That I agree with. 

[Coryberg]

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What’s our record since getting big Z? Isn’t it something like 8-1-1? And he’s playing top for, no? 
The guy is a top four D. Soucy is a 5. That I agree with. 

Zadorov is 5th amongst dmen since we acquired him. He was also the 5th dman in ice time with Calgary the previous 2 seasons. Hovering around 18 minutes in each season. A solid #5 through and through.

[Alflives]

31 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Zadorov is 5th amongst dmen since we acquired him. He was also the 5th dman in ice time with Calgary the previous 2 seasons. Hovering around 18 minutes in each season. A solid #5 through and through.

Big z is a top four D and we should sign him as such. He’s a great player. 
bow to the empties. And kneel for your transgressions. 

[Coryberg]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Big z is a top four D and we should sign him as such. He’s a great player. 
bow to the empties. And kneel for your transgressions. 

How do I argue with that? 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Coryberg

[Tusk]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Oh I agree...I was actually writing a mention of cap etc in that post, but felt I was getting long winded and deleted it

 

Besides, what we really need if we're spending cap, is a Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub type at +/- $4-$5m that allows us to play them with Hughes, and Hronek with Zadorov for the most part. Soucy can anchor the 3rd pair with a kid on an ELC, or a very on a cheap contract

 

Hughes $7.85, Trade/sign +/-$4.5

Zadorov +/-$4.25, Hronek +/-$7.5

Soucy $3.25, ELC/vet $1.25

 

Friedman, Juulsen (or similar) <$1m each

geez man if Hughes $7.85 how is Hronek more than 4.5? where are we getting all this Cap from? did you already trade Petey off?

[Coryberg]

10 minutes ago, Tusk said:

geez man if Hughes $7.85 how is Hronek more than 4.5?

21 year old RFA with 5 years club control vs 25 year old RFA with 1 year.... and 3 years of inflation.

 

If I'm PA I'm pointing at devon toews freshly signed  7 x 7.25 deal and saying take it and love it. 

[aGENT]

56 minutes ago, Tusk said:

geez man if Hughes $7.85 how is Hronek more than 4.5? where are we getting all this Cap from? did you already trade Petey off?

Que?

 

Hronek is going to get more than $4.5... nobody is trading Petey.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Que?

 

Hronek is going to get more than $4.5... nobody is trading Petey.

 

yep and yep. 

 

I can see Hronek getting close to what Toews from the Avs got. But man, at some point, I'd like to see Hronek anchor his own line to see if he can carry his own defensive unit, apart from Hughes. A part of me suspects that Hronek looks great because he's been playing alongside Hughes, but might struggle a little bit if he had to play apart from Quinn. 

 

7 years x 7M, take it. is that a fair deal for Hronek? 

6 years x 4.25M for Zad? Or is that too long and too much? 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by N4ZZY

[Boudrias]

12 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Soucy has never cracked the 17 minute average toi mark in his 6 seasons played. Zadorov has only went past 19 minutes 3 times in his 11 seasons. 2 of those seasons were the worst of his career and the one good season was 7 years ago. He is a lot like Myers where the more he plays the more mistakes get made. He is a great #5 who can sub in at 4 in the case of injuries but if you are relying on him to put up 20 minutes on a regular basis you are most definitely not a contender.

 

If people want to look at everything in context they can reference zadorovs entire career. He is 11 seasons in and he is what he is.

You are so bang on! Bottomline is whether Zad or Meyers are 2nd pairing d-men on a CUP contender. We will find out this year and the same for Soucy. I highly doubt PA will open his wallet until then. Depending on how they play will determine $'s and term. I highly doubt either will get more  than 3 years max. PA has to weigh their possible contracts against his prospects who might warrant NHL time soon.

[AatuD2]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

 

yep and yep. 

 

I can see Hronek getting close to what Toews from the Avs got. But man, at some point, I'd like to see Hronek anchor his own line to see if he can carry his own defensive unit, apart from Hughes. A part of me suspects that Hronek looks great because he's been playing alongside Hughes, but might struggle a little bit if he had to play apart from Quinn. 

 

7 years x 7M, take it. is that a fair deal for Hronek? 

6 years x 4.25M for Zad? Or is that too long and too much? 

 

 

I like both of those deals and the players should like them too. 

 

People might laugh (looking at you @Boudrias ) when I mention a 6 or 7 year deal for Zadorov, but look at the deals given out in the last 12 months to d-men.  

 

Devon Toews is 30 and got a 7 year deal. 

Scott Mayfield was 29 when he got his 7 year deal. 

Ryan Graves got 6 years. 

Damon Severson got 8 years. 

Travis Sanheim got 8 years. 

 

All guys ranging from 27 to 30 years old who got 6 to 8 years. Sure, Toews is a class above the rest but Zadorov isn't far off from Graves and Mayfield. 

[Boudrias]

3 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

I like both of those deals and the players should like them too. 

 

People might laugh (looking at you @Boudrias ) when I mention a 6 or 7 year deal for Zadorov, but look at the deals given out in the last 12 months to d-men.  

 

Devon Toews is 30 and got a 7 year deal. 

Scott Mayfield was 29 when he got his 7 year deal. 

Ryan Graves got 6 years. 

Damon Severson got 8 years. 

Travis Sanheim got 8 years. 

 

All guys ranging from 27 to 30 years old who got 6 to 8 years. Sure, Toews is a class above the rest but Zadorov isn't far off from Graves and Mayfield. 

The point I was trying to make is how PA will have to weigh the pay & term within the context of CUP contention and prospect alternatives. I can see Hroneck getting both cash & term but maybe not Meyers or Zad. It will be a tough call.