[Report]: Term the main priority for Nikita Zadorov’s camp in extension talks with Canucks

[aGENT]

25 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The point I was trying to make is how PA will have to weigh the pay & term within the context of CUP contention and prospect alternatives. I can see Hroneck getting both cash & term but maybe not Meyers or Zad. It will be a tough call.  

 

Myers is as good as gone. He's going to get +/-$4m as a UFA and isn't the D type we need to spend that money on. We need a guy like Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub at ~$4.5m+/- to play beside Hughes and allow Hronek to anchor the 2nd pair alongside Zadorov.

 

That's not Myers.

[Diamonds]

41 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

I like both of those deals and the players should like them too. 

 

People might laugh (looking at you @Boudrias ) when I mention a 6 or 7 year deal for Zadorov, but look at the deals given out in the last 12 months to d-men.  

 

Devon Toews is 30 and got a 7 year deal. 

Scott Mayfield was 29 when he got his 7 year deal. 

Ryan Graves got 6 years. 

Damon Severson got 8 years. 

Travis Sanheim got 8 years. 

 

All guys ranging from 27 to 30 years old who got 6 to 8 years. Sure, Toews is a class above the rest but Zadorov isn't far off from Graves and Mayfield. 

Mayfield is definitely the closest comparable to Zadorov that you mentioned. Both have historically been 5th on their respective team's depth chart but 4th from time to time or when injuries occur. However, Mayfield averaged over 19min/game in ice-time the past four seasons leading up to his contract this past summer and over 21min/game last season. Conversely, Zadorov has only averaged over 19min/game once in his past four seasons. Most of that difference comes from the penalty kill where Mayfield often averages the highest SH TOI on the Islanders and Zadorov is usually a second, or sometimes third, string guy.

 

The reason NY Islanders offered a 7 year contract to Mayfield was to keep his cap hit low. Mayfield's cap hit is just $3.5M. So if we were saying Zadorov is a close comparable but falls just short then a 7 year contract for Zadorov should come in around $3.25M/year.

 

Edit: I like what Zadorov has brought and his physical edge is awesome. However, I'm not comfortable offering over $4M/year for a defenseman that hasn't proven they can handle consistent top 4 minutes (especially with term). Maybe that changes by the end of the season and in the playoffs, but I want to see more first.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Diamonds

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Mayfield is definitely the closest comparable to Zadorov that you mentioned. Both have historically been 5th on their respective team's depth chart but 4th from time to time or when injuries occur. However, Mayfield averaged over 19min/game in ice-time the past four seasons leading up to his contract this past summer and over 21min/game last season. Conversely, Zadorov has only averaged over 19min/game once in his past four seasons. Most of that difference comes from the penalty kill where Mayfield often averages the highest SH TOI on the Islanders and Zadorov is usually a second, or sometimes third, string guy.

 

The reason NY Islanders offered a 7 year contract to Mayfield was to keep his cap hit low. Mayfield's cap hit is just $3.5M. So if we were saying Zadorov is a close comparable but falls just short then a 7 year contract for Zadorov should come in around $3.25M/year.

 

Edit: I like what Zadorov has brought and his physical edge is awesome. However, I'm not comfortable offering over $4M/year for a defenseman that hasn't proven they can handle consistent top 4 minutes (especially with term). Maybe that changes by the end of the season and in the playoffs, but I want to see more first.

Tend to agree... Closer to 4 years could be in the $4-$4.25 range. 6 years should be under $4 IMO.

Edited December 29, 2023 by aGENT

[AatuD2]

6 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Mayfield is definitely the closest comparable to Zadorov that you mentioned. Both have historically been 5th on their respective team's depth chart but 4th from time to time or when injuries occur. However, Mayfield averaged over 19min/game in ice-time the past four seasons leading up to his contract this past summer and over 21min/game last season. Conversely, Zadorov has only averaged over 19min/game once in his past four seasons. Most of that difference comes from the penalty kill where Mayfield often averages the highest SH TOI on the Islanders and Zadorov is usually a second, or sometimes third, string guy.

 

The reason NY Islanders offered a 7 year contract to Mayfield was to keep his cap hit low. Mayfield's cap hit is just $3.5M. So if we were saying Zadorov is a close comparable but falls just short then a 7 year contract for Zadorov should come in around $3.25M/year.

 

Edit: I like what Zadorov has brought and his physical edge is awesome. However, I'm not comfortable offering over $4M/year for a defenseman that hasn't proven they can handle consistent top 4 minutes (especially with term). Maybe that changes by the end of the season and in the playoffs, but I want to see more first.

 

 

Interesting points on Mayfield. I've only seen about 7-10 of his games total (Canucks games and after Bo got traded). Can't say I've noticed him other then some physical play but I can't argue with the numbers that you presented. 

 

When you lay it out like that, I don't think we should give Zadorov a penny more then what Mayfield got (total). 

 

 

[cripplereh]

21 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

 

Interesting points on Mayfield. I've only seen about 7-10 of his games total (Canucks games and after Bo got traded). Can't say I've noticed him other then some physical play but I can't argue with the numbers that you presented. 

 

When you lay it out like that, I don't think we should give Zadorov a penny more then what Mayfield got (total). 

 

 

I agree there but with the cap going up so do salaries.So we will see what he wants and hope it ain't to high.

[N4ZZY]

On 12/29/2023 at 11:02 AM, Diamonds said:

I like what Zadorov has brought and his physical edge is awesome. However, I'm not comfortable offering over $4M/year for a defenseman that hasn't proven they can handle consistent top 4 minutes (especially with term). Maybe that changes by the end of the season and in the playoffs, but I want to see more first.

 

I think this is more than fair to be honest. Zadorov hasn't proven that he can play in the top four consistently, so there's no point offering him that kind of money. If he wants term and money, then he better perform in a top four role, or else he's not deserving of the contract he wants. If he leaves, though, there will be yet another hole for Allvin and Rutherford to have to plug. 

 

[N4ZZY]

On 12/30/2023 at 2:47 PM, cripplereh said:

I agree there but with the cap going up so do salaries.So we will see what he wants and hope it ain't to high.

 

Well, if it is too high, then we'll have no choice but to let him go to free agency. 

 

I'm curious to see how Allvin will manage his cap once the OEL cap hit begins. he doesn't have a lot of room, and the players that he probably does want to bring back, will all be needing raises, unless he signs them before they hit free agency, but then why would the player want to do that? 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

 

Well, if it is too high, then we'll have no choice but to let him go to free agency. 

 

I'm curious to see how Allvin will manage his cap once the OEL cap hit begins. he doesn't have a lot of room, and the players that he probably does want to bring back, will all be needing raises, unless he signs them before they hit free agency, but then why would the player want to do that? 

 

 

Also have to consider bonuses if any ELC youngsters step up next year and the year after. 

 

Having extra dead cap when OEL buyout cap hit is at 4.76M for 2 seasons(2025-2027) would not be ideal. Might want to make sure we can handle any bonuses in next and the following year's cap to avoid carry over when OEL's cap hit is at it's worst. 

 

It is something to keep in mind the next couple following seasons after this one. 

 

 

[Coryberg]

3 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

If he leaves, though, there will be yet another hole for Allvin and Rutherford to have to plug. 

 

Fortunately for us plugging a hole on the 3rd pairing is one of the easiest and cheapest positions to fill. 

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Fortunately for us plugging a hole on the 3rd pairing is one of the easiest and cheapest positions to fill. 

 

but i don't think it's as easy as it sounds. if it were, every team would have a great third line. that third line right now is one of the best in the league at what they do. if we can keep those guys around, Allvin's gotta do it. but Joshua's probably wanting more money, as well as Blueger and Lafferty. If we can keep 1 of them it's great. If 2, that would be awesome. 

 

[Coryberg]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

 

but i don't think it's as easy as it sounds. if it were, every team would have a great third line. that third line right now is one of the best in the league at what they do. if we can keep those guys around, Allvin's gotta do it. but Joshua's probably wanting more money, as well as Blueger and Lafferty. If we can keep 1 of them it's great. If 2, that would be awesome. 

 

I was actually talking about 3rd pairing dmen. Responding to your comment that if Zadorov leaves PA will have a hole to plug.

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Coryberg said:

I was actually talking about 3rd pairing dmen. Responding to your comment that if Zadorov leaves PA will have a hole to plug.

 

lol. oops. 3rd pairing defenseman are easier to replace that's true haha 

 

[MattJVD]

I like Zad, but it sounds like he has pretty high expectations for his next contract. If the money he is asking for starts with a 4, I'd walk away. We can't allocate that much cap to a #4/5 D.

[canucks curse]

Ian cole 2 yrs x 1.75 AAV

 

let Myers go- he is in a contract year giving max effort , if he loses another step he is totally useless 

 

I would resign Zadorov - but for some reason Myers I’d getting more minutes 

 

 

thank fully we have competent management to address 2nd pair  RD 

[N4ZZY]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:58 AM, aGENT said:

 

Myers is as good as gone. He's going to get +/-$4m as a UFA and isn't the D type we need to spend that money on. We need a guy like Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub at ~$4.5m+/- to play beside Hughes and allow Hronek to anchor the 2nd pair alongside Zadorov.

 

That's not Myers.

 

We're not getting Pesce for 4.5M. he's going to be making a ton more than that, and he'll get it from another team. Zadorov is probably getting 4M, so Pesce is going to get probably, I think, closer to 6-6.5M. would you spend that amount of money on a guy like him? 

 

[N4ZZY]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:16 AM, MattJVD said:

I like Zad, but it sounds like he has pretty high expectations for his next contract. If the money he is asking for starts with a 4, I'd walk away. We can't allocate that much cap to a #4/5 D.

 

well, how much is he getting right now? 3.5? he's going to want more than that moving forward, most likely no? 

 

[MattJVD]

39 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

 

well, how much is he getting right now? 3.5? he's going to want more than that moving forward, most likely no? 

 

3.75 and I'm sure he does want a raise, I wouldn't give him one though. I'd offer him term at 3.25 or 3.5 and if he says no thanks, walk away. I like Zad, but I don't think that much money for a #4/5 fits on our team. 

[qwijjibo]

12 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

3.75 and I'm sure he does want a raise, I wouldn't give him one though. I'd offer him term at 3.25 or 3.5 and if he says no thanks, walk away. I like Zad, but I don't think that much money for a #4/5 fits on our team. 

I doubt very much that Allvin is asking a 28 year old pending UFA with no history with the team to take a pay cut to stay in Vancouver.  

[aGENT]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:42 AM, N4ZZY said:

 

We're not getting Pesce for 4.5M. he's going to be making a ton more than that, and he'll get it from another team. Zadorov is probably getting 4M, so Pesce is going to get probably, I think, closer to 6-6.5M. would you spend that amount of money on a guy like him? 

 

 

I figure he probably gets +/- $5-$5.5m. On the high end of that range but manageable. I don't think he gets $6-$6.5, certainly not from a good team. $6 on a bottom feeder? Maybe...If that's what he wants. And no, I wouldn't pay him that on the Canucks. Don't put words in my mouth (especially stupid ones).

 

I feel like people are still valuing him based on last year's career high performance. Traditionally he's a +/-20-25 point, solid defensive, puck moving RD (and this year, is on pace for 14 points). He's a younger, bigger, Chris Tanev. Those guys don't get paid crap tonnes. And $4m+ is probably on the high end of what Zadorov gets based on comparables as well.

 

I also mentioned a few guys other than Pesce FWIW.

Edited January 4 by aGENT

[qwijjibo]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I figure he probably gets +/- $5-$5.5m. On the high end of that range but manageable. I don't think he gets $6-$6.5, certainly not from a good team. $6 on a bottom feeder? Maybe...If that's what he wants. And no, I wouldn't pay him that on the Canucks. Don't put words in my mouth (especially stupid ones).

 

I feel like people are still valuing him based on last year's career high performance. Traditionally he's a +/-20-25 point, solid defensive, puck moving RD (and this year, is on pace for 14 points). He's a younger, bigger, Chris Tanev. Those guys don't get paid crap tonnes. And $4m is probably on the high end of what Zadorov gets based on comparables as well.

Zadorov is currently making 4.55% of the salary cap.  At the new cap of $87m it comes in just shy of $4m.  So if he just maintains the status quo with what he's making , it's going to be $4m.  That's without getting a bump from being a pending ufa. 

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Zadorov is currently making 4.55% of the salary cap.  At the new cap of $87m it comes in just shy of $4m.  So if he just maintains the status quo with what he's making , it's going to be $4m.  That's without getting a bump from being a pending ufa. 

 

Sure and on a shorter 3-4 year term, he probably gets low $4s. If we're to believe the reporting/title of this thread and term is more important to him... I think you can get him for something like $3.85-$3.95 +/- for 5 or 6 years. Especially with some limited (5 team?) trade protection, tax friendly bonus structure etc, etc.

 

Just look at comparables like Mayfield, Graves, our own Soucy etc.

Edited January 3 by aGENT

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sure and on a shorter 3-4 year term, he probably gets low $4s. If we're to believe the reporting/title of this thread and term is more important to him... I think you can get him for something like $3.85-$3.95 +/- for 5 or 6 years. Especially with some limited (5 team?) trade protection, tax friendly bonus structure etc, etc.

In the past JR has signed guys to longer terms to keep the yearly cap allocation down. Maybe we can get Big Z for 20 million and then figure out a term that works for the cap? 

[qwijjibo]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sure and on a shorter 3-4 year term, he probably gets low $4s. If we're to believe the reporting/title of this thread and term is more important to him... I think you can get him for something like $3.85-$3.95 +/- for 5 or 6 years. Especially with some limited (5 team?) trade protection, tax friendly bonus structure etc, etc.

 

Just look at comparables like Mayfield, Graves, our own Soucy etc.

I think those are reasonable assumptions. I'm just pushing back against the few people who think it's going to be less than he's already making. I feel like it's going to be right around the $4m +/-  neighborhood 

[cripplereh]

On 12/31/2023 at 8:28 PM, N4ZZY said:

 

Well, if it is too high, then we'll have no choice but to let him go to free agency. 

 

I'm curious to see how Allvin will manage his cap once the OEL cap hit begins. he doesn't have a lot of room, and the players that he probably does want to bring back, will all be needing raises, unless he signs them before they hit free agency, but then why would the player want to do that? 

 

Well will be interesting how our prospects turn out in a year or two so we might not have to sign everyone.

 

Maybe next year a couple make it.

[N4ZZY]

5 hours ago, MattJVD said:

3.75 and I'm sure he does want a raise, I wouldn't give him one though. I'd offer him term at 3.25 or 3.5 and if he says no thanks, walk away. I like Zad, but I don't think that much money for a #4/5 fits on our team. 

 

Could we find someone of his size as a defenseman, though? Cause it's obvious to me that Tocchet and management want their backend to be similar to Vegas'. Large and mobile.