[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Nashville Predators // December 19, 2023

[arsenalian]

3 hours ago, tas said:

I hate mark messier as much as the next guy but this is a revisionist angle. messier had no idea about maki. 

 

quinn, mccammon, and mccaw are on the hook for that one. 

Really? I thought he asked for 11 and was told about Maki’s number being “unofficially” retired and the story behind it. Mind you, I was quite young at the time, so my memory of it is pretty vague. Now I need to research it a bit.

 

He’s still a turd regardless though.

[conquestofbaguettes]

17 minutes ago, arsenalian said:

Really? I thought he asked for 11 and was told about Maki’s number being “unofficially” retired and the story behind it. Mind you, I was quite young at the time, so my memory of it is pretty vague. Now I need to research it a bit.

 

He’s still a turd regardless though.

 

There was certainly no shortage of gross. Here is Mark Messier's handwritten contract from back in 1997:

Note: The “promotional” section gave him phantom ownership in team which later equaled $18M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

Edited December 21, 2023 by conquestofbaguettes

[PistolPete13]

11 hours ago, Rocket-68 said:

Read to the melody of Pearl Jam, Last Kiss

 

Oh where, oh where can our resident troll be

@Ribs and @-dlc- took him away from me

Is he in heaven or was he sent to hell

Oh, in Edmonton that is just as well

 

As an Oilers fan CFF can admire from afar

How a real contending team does sets the bar

Are the 'Nucks for real or is all just show

Recalling the 8-1 beat down CFF now really must know

 

CFF is losing hope, he cannot face his fear

As the Canucks keep pounding 'em, kicking the Oilers rear

Somewhere in heaven St Peter stops the snore

As Canucks Nation lets out a mighty roar

 

.... more to follow ... or you can always add your own verse

 

in a boring meeting so making good use of the time

Oh where or where can CFF be

Got a one way ticket back to Junior B

Where he used to be the backup goalie

Now hes coaching using master strategy.

 

Team’s sucking badly so he’s got to be good.

So he can coach the Dee in his own little world.

[conquestofbaguettes]

2 hours ago, Grandmaster said:

I’m digging all these Arnold clips!
This is how I see our boys getting ready just before a game:

 

[Ghostsof1915]

1 hour ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

There was certainly no shortage of gross. Here is Mark Messier's handwritten contract from back in 1997:

Note: The “promotional” section gave him phantom ownership in team which later equaled $18M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

3 bedroom apartment but he resides in Washington State? WTF?

Pat buddy, you should have just walked away.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

13 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

[CanucksJay]

7 hours ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Wow lost me when you compared the NHL to a poker hand. Anymore clever metaphors? 

 

Wanting multiple cup runs and a dynasty in the cap era is foolish at best. When you have a shot you go for it. 

 

7 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Maybe going all in for a one and done is not the right approach. I want to win the cup as much as anyone.

But I think the Canucks problem is we never reload when we make one run. Then we start drafting late in the draft. And then never get back.

Maybe try for depth, and a solid core, and keep building the team to get stronger would be the way.

After all Toronto and Dubas kept going all in, and it got them what? One round?

And they have few draft picks, handcuffed by expensive contracts.

No thanks to that.

 

Here's the thing though.

Management has slowly gotten rid of all the contracts where players weren't pulling their weight. Only ones left were Myers and Garland and they are finally having good years and being a big asset to the team. Boeser is now looking like a steal at his <7m contract. 

This is the only year we have Zadorov, Hronek Petey on undervalued contracts before they get big raises. 

We have Boeser at his rate for 1 more year. 

This version of the team will be the most cap efficient one for years to come with guys like Miller and Hughes performing like 10m players but making far less. I think Kuz is the only questionable contract / roster position.

We are number 2 in the league.

In 2 years, we'll have no choice but to lose one or two players of Kuzmenko, Boeser calibre because of the OEL penalty along with trying to get guys like Podz and Raty to do the job cheaper because we've allocated more budget on Hronek, Z and Petey. 

There is no doubt that we should be going for it this year. 

If we trade Kuz, we have cap space at the deadline to improve this team. 

I'm not suggesting we gut or deplete prospect pool. 

I still want to keep all our grade A prospects like Willander, D Petey, Lekkermaki, Podz, Raty. 

 

If our team was going to go on a deep playoff run, what are we missing? 

We need 1x  2-3D and

1 power forward to play with Petey. 

Thats pretty much it. 

 

Ideal playoff roster is

Hogz Miller Boeser 

Power Forward Petey Mik 

Garland Bleuger Joshua

Lafferty Suter Aman

PDG 

 

Hughes Hronek

New D Soucy

Zadorov Myers 

Cole

Juulsen

 

That means our trade chips are Kuzmenko and draft picks. 

 

Surely we can address some needs here without emptying the cupboard? 

[Grandmaster]

6 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

There was certainly no shortage of gross. Here is Mark Messier's handwritten contract from back in 1997:

Note: The “promotional” section gave him phantom ownership in team which later equaled $18M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

Wow. I’m shocked this was 

1) released to the public

2) how Mickey Mouse it looks

 

[Hogs and Podz]

7 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

There was certainly no shortage of gross. Here is Mark Messier's handwritten contract from back in 1997:

Note: The “promotional” section gave him phantom ownership in team which later equaled $18M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

Didn't know I could dislike Mess even more... But here you have it.  McCaw... Fully bent over and asked for more.  

I started following canucks regularly in 89.  But I stopped watching for 2 seasons all together... Guess when lol.  I try to forget it ever happened.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Hogs and Podz

[Rick_theRyper]

11 hours ago, stawns said:

They didn't "go for it" out of nowhere.  That team was years in the making and they went for it once they had several tries at getting through the post season 

And this team isn't going for it out of nowhere, we drafted all of our core minus Miller. Demko, Petey, Hughes all drafted. The process took almost a decade. So what's your point? Try again trade Petey? Hope the decade proves more fruitful? I don't get it. We're deserving of spending a 2 or 1 rnd pick to move out cap Garland or Myers , or Kuzmenko bringing  back a supreme up grade 

[Gawdzukes]

19 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Also I know I rag on him too but could we lay off @stawns please?

 

Every board needs the "objective guy" otherwise there'd be no interesting discussions or debates. 

 

Last thing I'd want is for him to feel attacked here and stop posting because I do enjoy reading his comments. I don't agree with a lot of it but having different takes is what makes discussion forums fun. 

 

I'd just wish he'd admit that this isn't a wild card team and he pegged the team wrong. 

In hindsight, it's clear that Nov was a rough month with injuries and a gruelling schedule. What it did show us is that we were 1 injury on D away from being a 500 club. Soucy going down exposed our lack of depth and now that we have Z, things are good again. Having Soucy return will only make us stronger. 

It also allowed Juulsen more playing time where he has emerged into a very dependable 7D capable of filling in for injuries. 

 

 

Does it really matter how he views the team? I can tell he knows the game because that is what a smart player and/or coach does. They never rest on their laurels, they are never satisfied, or think the results are in the bag, or nominate themselves as better than the pack. In fact he's smarter than 95% of the people on this board. A smart coach and player realizes after 10 years of futility and comically bad results the last two seasons, nothing is a given. This team has proven nothing except they have managed some positive results 2/5 into the season. The correct approach is to keep the pedal to the metal and look for weaknesses and fix them where they present. The team is looking good but let's not get ahead of ourselves. I would say his view is still the correct one. Anointing the team as a lock is setting oneself up for failure.

 

As a side note I can't believe people are still whining about the schedule.  Hockey is tough, the NHL schedule is a grind. Get used to it, it's not changing anytime soon unless they move the team to Toronto, or transfer to the WHL. So utterly whiny. Poor babies having to fly across the country getting paid millions to play a children's game. Cry me a river lol.

[stawns]

47 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

And this team isn't going for it out of nowhere, we drafted all of our core minus Miller. Demko, Petey, Hughes all drafted. The process took almost a decade. So what's your point? Try again trade Petey? Hope the decade proves more fruitful? I don't get it. We're deserving of spending a 2 or 1 rnd pick to move out cap Garland or Myers , or Kuzmenko bringing  back a supreme up grade 

 

They have, but they have no playoff experience and that's an entirely different beast and usually takes a few years to get to the top.  I'm fine adding, but following the process and doing it right, while protecting the future.

[Gawdzukes]

15 hours ago, Blue said:

 

 

Kuzmenko travelled with his trainer to Bali. It was a UFC style training camp in Bali for him. Didn't you see the ripped 6 pack he had ? 

 

Let's take the bullet that we dodged last year with Boeser and salary dump a top six 39 goal scorer. And replace him with a Granlund. Maybe the Sharks will trade their Granlund straight across. He only went 30+ games without scoring a goal.

 

What a massive and immature mistake that was. He looks like he's still on the beach worried about getting a tan.

[Gawdzukes]

14 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Maybe going all in for a one and done is not the right approach. I want to win the cup as much as anyone.

But I think the Canucks problem is we never reload when we make one run. Then we start drafting late in the draft. And then never get back.

Maybe try for depth, and a solid core, and keep building the team to get stronger would be the way.

After all Toronto and Dubas kept going all in, and it got them what? One round?

And they have few draft picks, handcuffed by expensive contracts.

No thanks to that.

 

Absolutely. We are one of the worst franchises for going all in when we have not built our core properly. It's been a major issue the last decade and the major reason we've been sputtering along like we have.

[stawns]

14 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

I watched this 15 times in the last 4 days

[Dr. Crossbar]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I watched this 15 times in the last 4 days

 

[CanucksJay]

52 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Does it really matter how he views the team? I can tell he knows the game because that is what a smart player and/or coach does. They never rest on their laurels, they are never satisfied, or think the results are in the bag, or nominate themselves as better than the pack. In fact he's smarter than 95% of the people on this board. A smart coach and player realizes after 10 years of futility and comically bad results the last two seasons, nothing is a given. This team has proven nothing except they have managed some positive results 2/5 into the season. The correct approach is to keep the pedal to the metal and look for weaknesses and fix them where they present. The team is looking good but let's not get ahead of ourselves. I would say his view is still the correct one. Anointing the team as a lock is setting oneself up for failure.

 

As a side note I can't believe people are still whining about the schedule.  Hockey is tough, the NHL schedule is a grind. Get used to it, it's not changing anytime soon unless they move the team to Toronto, or transfer to the WHL. So utterly whiny. Poor babies having to fly across the country getting paid millions to play a children's game. Cry me a river lol.

Dude are you bipolar? 

 

Sometimes you and I are quite aligned and then sometimes you go off the deep end like this. 

 

@stawnsobviously doesn't know the game enough when he pegs this team as a wild card team. If he said it before the season began, no one would argue with him. He said it when we were one of the top teams in the league. Do you agree with him? 

Are we a wild card team? 

I think we're more like a top 5 team in this league. 

He says the word objective but it really isn't. Objectively speaking, we are playing some of our best hockey ever in franchise history. All 4 lines are rolling, our D has size, mobility and depth. We have an amazing 1-2 punch down the middle in Miller and Petey. We have a Norris front runner in Hughes. We have a Vezina calibre goalie in Demko. We have a guy battling it out for the Rocket Richard. Amazing bottom 6, the list goes on. 

Yet, he says we are a wild card team and we better watch our for the Oilers lol. He's not speaking  objectively. He's being stubborn and sticking to his pre-season assessment.

The way we forecheck, play systems, everything we are doing is completely different from the way we've done it in the past. 

I think guys like him pseudo know hockey. Enough to talk down to someone who are surface fans but still blinded by their own ego and the need to be right to not see what's actually happening on the ice which is an amazing product this season. 

 

Also, no one is whining about the schedule. It was a brutal schedule and the record showed. Schedule gets better, we get a replacement for an injured Soucy, and low and behold, we are dominating again. 

Schedule is a part of life but to ignore that it factors on wins and losses is asinine. 

It's also asinine to judge a team when they are going through a brutal part of the schedule and write them off saying schedule doesn't matter and that is who they are ignoring all the great they've done up until that point. 

 

[stawns]

58 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Dude are you bipolar? 

 

Sometimes you and I are quite aligned and then sometimes you go off the deep end like this. 

 

@stawnsobviously doesn't know the game enough when he pegs this team as a wild card team. If he said it before the season began, no one would argue with him. He said it when we were one of the top teams in the league. Do you agree with him? 

Are we a wild card team? 

I think we're more like a top 5 team in this league. 

He says the word objective but it really isn't. Objectively speaking, we are playing some of our best hockey ever in franchise history. All 4 lines are rolling, our D has size, mobility and depth. We have an amazing 1-2 punch down the middle in Miller and Petey. We have a Norris front runner in Hughes. We have a Vezina calibre goalie in Demko. We have a guy battling it out for the Rocket Richard. Amazing bottom 6, the list goes on. 

Yet, he says we are a wild card team and we better watch our for the Oilers lol. He's not speaking  objectively. He's being stubborn and sticking to his pre-season assessment.

The way we forecheck, play systems, everything we are doing is completely different from the way we've done it in the past. 

I think guys like him pseudo know hockey. Enough to talk down to someone who are surface fans but still blinded by their own ego and the need to be right to not see what's actually happening on the ice which is an amazing product this season. 

 

Also, no one is whining about the schedule. It was a brutal schedule and the record showed. Schedule gets better, we get a replacement for an injured Soucy, and low and behold, we are dominating again. 

Schedule is a part of life but to ignore that it factors on wins and losses is asinine. 

It's also asinine to judge a team when they are going through a brutal part of the schedule and write them off saying schedule doesn't matter and that is who they are ignoring all the great they've done up until that point. 

 

 

Out of curiosity, what level did you play/coach at?  EA Sports doesn't count

Edited December 21, 2023 by stawns

[Gawdzukes]

6 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Dude are you bipolar? 

 

Sometimes you and I are quite aligned and then sometimes you go off the deep end like this. 

 

@stawnsobviously doesn't know the game enough when he pegs this team as a wild card team. If he said it before the season began, no one would argue with him. He said it when we were one of the top teams in the league. Do you agree with him? 

Are we a wild card team? 

I think we're more like a top 5 team in this league. 

He says the word objective but it really isn't. Objectively speaking, we are playing some of our best hockey ever in franchise history. All 4 lines are rolling, our D has size, mobility and depth. We have an amazing 1-2 punch down the middle in Miller and Petey. We have a Norris front runner in Hughes. We have a Vezina calibre goalie in Demko. We have a guy battling it out for the Rocket Richard. Amazing bottom 6, the list goes on. 

Yet, he says we are a wild card team and we better watch our for the Oilers lol. He's not speaking  objectively. He's being stubborn and sticking to his pre-season assessment.

The way we forecheck, play systems, everything we are doing is completely different from the way we've done it in the past. 

I think guys like him pseudo know hockey. Enough to talk down to someone who are surface fans but still blinded by their own ego and the need to be right to not see what's actually happening on the ice which is an amazing product this season. 

 

Also, no one is whining about the schedule. It was a brutal schedule and the record showed. Schedule gets better, we get a replacement for an injured Soucy, and low and behold, we are dominating again. 

Schedule is a part of life but to ignore that it factors on wins and losses is asinine. 

It's also asinine to judge a team when they are going through a brutal part of the schedule and write them off saying schedule doesn't matter and that is who they are ignoring all the great they've done up until that point. 

 

 

No, I'm not bipolar. Thanks for asking. It would seem like kind of a mean thing to ask if I was though.

 

I just don't get too worked up on labels or how people or fans see things. I only care if the team plays well and hopefully wins hockey games. Obviously it bothers you so I'll let you call them whatever you like. It really doesn't matter to me.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying the season. Fantastic turnaround. The team plays with the type of staples I value most in sports. However, after the last 4-5 seasons I would strongly encourage one not to get ahead of themselves in regards to labels. We're only 1/3 into the season. The team is far exceeding our expectations and we all hope it continues but that's far from a guarantee. We're winning lots of games but we also still have 7 games left against our main competition in Vegas and LA. That will tell us a lot about our team, as will our run of play down the stretch when things tighten up.

 

People have all different types of experience with sports so it pays to be tolerant of others, as they probably have valid reasons for the way they think. @stawns may have a more pessimistic view than you do but as an athlete I approach it the same way. You always look at the worst case because you want to be constructively critical and not take anything for granted. If I was coaching I sure wouldn't be going around telling everyone how great we are. Sure you build them up, but you also leave something on the table for them to strive to achieve.

 

It's all semantics anyway. We are 10 points clear of a wildcard team and 15 ahead of Calgary. But, after it's all said and done are we a second place team, first place, or third barely hanging on to a hot start? That is yet to be determined so both of your outlooks can be correct. If his outlook is pessimistic I would say yours is wildly optimistic. Speaking of bi-polar I could've sworn I saw numerous posts from you in the last couple weeks/month questioning this very team, which I thought was a little unlike you.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

No, I'm not bipolar. Thanks for asking. It would seem like kind of a mean thing to ask if I was though.

 

I just don't get too worked up on labels or how people or fans see things. I only care if the team plays well and hopefully wins hockey games. Obviously it bothers you so I'll let you call them whatever you like. It really doesn't matter to me.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying the season. Fantastic turnaround. The team plays with the type of staples I value most in sports. However, after the last 4-5 seasons I would strongly encourage one not to get ahead of themselves in regards to labels. We're only 1/3 into the season. The team is far exceeding our expectations and we all hope it continues but that's far from a guarantee. We're winning lots of games but we also still have 7 games left against our main competition in Vegas and LA. That will tell us a lot about our team, as will our run of play down the stretch when things tighten up.

 

People have all different types of experience with sports so it pays to be tolerant of others, as they probably have valid reasons for the way they think. @stawns may have a more pessimistic view than you do but as an athlete I approach it the same way. You always look at the worst case because you want to be constructively critical and not take anything for granted. If I was coaching I sure wouldn't be going around telling everyone how great we are.

 

It's all semantics anyway. We are 10 points clear of a wildcard team and 15 ahead of Calgary. But, after it's all said and done are we a second place team, first place, or third barely hanging on to a hot start? That is yet to be determined so both of your outlooks can be correct. If his outlook is pessimistic I would say yours is wildly optimistic. Speaking of bi-polar I could've sworn I saw numerous posts from you in the last couple weeks/month questioning this very team, which I thought was a little unlike you.

I don't think I'm pessimistic at all.  I discuss how they are currently playing and when that's poorly, I say they're playing poorly 

 

For two seasons I was one of the few who insisted this was a playoff team and coaching was what was holding them back.  I'm certainly one of the very few who is remotely positive about Myers, and many other players.  

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, stawns said:

I don't think I'm pessimistic at all.  I discuss how they are currently playing and when that's poorly, I say they're playing poorly 

 

For two seasons I was one of the few who insisted this was a playoff team and coaching was what was holding them back.  I'm certainly one of the very few who is remotely positive about Myers, and many other players.  

 

I know. I was just pushing the extreme view to demonstrate the point to Jay. I support your viewpoint as well. One of the worst things you can do in sports is get too high on your own success, or ignore areas that need improvement. Unfortunately, the team hasn't really earned the benefit of the doubt after the last couple of seasons. They are going to have to earn it all season long before I start comparing them to Vegas, Boston, Colorado, or even TB who have struggled this season but have earned their elite status.

[stawns]

31 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I know. I was just pushing the extreme view to demonstrate the point to Jay. I support your viewpoint as well. One of the worst things you can do in sports is get too high on your own success, or ignore areas that need improvement. Unfortunately, the team hasn't really earned the benefit of the doubt after the last couple of seasons. They are going to have to earn it all season long before I start comparing them to Vegas, Boston, Colorado, or even TB who have struggled this season but have earned their elite status.

 

And I didn't think you were intending it that way.  It was just more of a piggy backed reply.

[CanucksJay]

11 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Out of curiosity, what level did you play/coach at?  EA Sports doesn't count

 

Ah the classic pissing contest. 

Whatever level you played or coached, that's gotta suck that you can't see the canucks are the real deal this year. 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by CanucksJay

[DownUndaCanuck]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:16 PM, JayDangles said:

Myers stays because we absolutely need him for playoffs. Please don't quote me but I think we've won 3/4 games where Kuzzy sat out. I think we are sitting on a disposable asset to be honest. Hate to say it, but I think the team would fair ok without Kuzzy. Especially because any move we make for him will bring in something else of value.

I don't think it alters our chemistry that much to move him. But Myers has to stay for now. He is finally playing up to his contract and him and Z have been very solid

I do agree that Myers has had a huge year, but it's probably a combination of stable partners (not AHLers), a good coaching staff and playing in a contract year. He's on pace for what, a 40 point, +20-30 season playing 20 minutes a night (which I think is maybe our 3rd highest defenceman? close to Cole). That's a massive year.

 

He'll probably get a decent contract in the off-season, maybe a 2-3 year 3-4M deal off this big year which we can't afford. I wouldn't be against keeping one of Cole or Myers for a year at like 2M but I doubt Myers would take that.

[stawns]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Ah the classic pissing contest. 

Whatever level you played or coached, that's gotta suck that you can't see the canucks are the real deal this year. 

 

 

Classic pissing contest?  You launched a personal attack out of nowhere.