2024 IIHF World Junior Championship Thread

[kilgore]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

So because I have a different opinion than you, I'm only doing it to be oppositional?  I said I didn't think it was a penalty as soon as it happened........so wouldn't that make you "disputatious"

 

Also, if you have to look up a word to use, don't use it. 

 

 

I shouldn't use a word I had to search to find to describe something?   Okay.

 

The word applies in general to your behaviour on this board, not for this post only. Your not the only one. There are a few of you. Not that I mind it. We need Devil's Advocates to stir the pot, and stoke conversation.

 

We will agree to disagree on the penalty.  Carry on with your bellicose banter.

[Satchmo]

I always root for Canada and can in no way ascribe to the idea that we've had enough golds.   More golds please, you can never have too many.   

 

I think the good showing by our prospects today is just a bit of silver lining to brighten the dark cloud of our loss.

 

And to repeat myself - it ain't over yet folks.   We've lost a game before and done just fine.

[stawns]

Just now, kilgore said:

 

I shouldn't use a word I had to search to find to describe something?   Okay.

 

The word applies in general to your behaviour on this board, not for this post only. Your not the only one. There are a few of you. Not that I mind it. We need Devil's Advocates to stir the pot, and stoke conversation.

 

We will agree to disagree on the penalty.  Carry on with your bellicose banter.

 

My behaviour on this board is very consistent and I'm not afraid to state my opinion despite the squad of people who try to shout down other people's opinions. 

 

Don't like mine, feel free to put me on ignore

[Miss Korea]

8 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Well we're you cheering for Juolevi to win?  He did and how did that turn out?  

 

We should know by now that wjhc results doesnt equal NHL success

Of course not, but that'll never take away from the memories made during the world juniors.  If Lekkerimäki scores the overtime goal in the gold medal game, that's a memory Canucks fans will have forever, even if he never plays for the Canucks.

 

It is a totally normal thing for NHL fans to watch the WJCs just for their team's prospects, without caring about the actual outcome of the tournament.

 

7 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Not everyone, lots openly cheering for Sweden which is why I made the post in the first place.  Not a huge deal I guess, just kind of sad to see imo

 

Is it really that surprising that a Canucks fan today would openly root for Sweden?  Have you followed this team at all in the past few years?

[Wiggums]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

Of course not, but that'll never take away from the memories made during the world juniors.  If Lekkerimäki scores the overtime goal in the gold medal game, that's a memory Canucks fans will have forever, even if he never plays for the Canucks.

 

It is a totally normal thing for NHL fans to watch the WJCs just for their team's prospects, without caring about the actual outcome of the tournament.

 

 

Is it really that surprising that a Canucks fan today would openly root for Sweden?  Have you followed this team at all in the past few years?

 

Yes I've been following the team, I followed Louis Eriksson and OEL verrryyy closely...

 

Seriously I don't care enough to continue on with this.  Me personally would never cheer for another country to win at an international tournament, no matter what sport.  People can do what they want 

[Miss Korea]

Just now, Wiggums said:

 

Yes I've been following the team, I followed Louis Eriksson and OEL verrryyy closely...

 

Seriously I don't care enough to continue on with this.  Me personally would never cheer for another country to win at an international tournament, no matter what sport.  People can do what they want 

We really aren't rooting for Sweden though, are we?  We just want our guys to do well.  We couldn't care less about guys like Östlund, Bystedt or Edstrom - they're not our guys.  We're not celebrating when they score.  We're just happy that the team is doing well because it means our prospects are doing well.  Which they are.

 

I mean, your position makes even less sense.  You should be happy that Pettersson, Willander and Lekkerimäki are doing as well as they are.  Rooting against them doesn't make you more of Canada fan but it does make you less of a Canucks fan, and that's weird.

[kilgore]

Just now, stawns said:

 

My behaviour on this board is very consistent and I'm not afraid to state my opinion despite the squad of people who try to shout down other people's opinions. 

 

Don't like mine, feel free to put me on ignore

lol. That's one way to look at it. Maybe its just that your opinions are almost always the exact opposite of mine. Hey I admire your rebel nature.  Your pugnaciousness and your polemic responses.  Keep on with your obdurate irascibleness.

 

Ignore? Not on your life. 

[shiznak]

8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

We really aren't rooting for Sweden though, are we?  We just want our guys to do well.  We couldn't care less about guys like Östlund, Bystedt or Edstrom - they're not our guys.  We're not celebrating when they score.  We're just happy that the team is doing well because it means our prospects are doing well.  Which they are.

 

I mean, your position makes even less sense.  You should be happy that Pettersson, Willander and Lekkerimäki are doing as well as they are.  Rooting against them doesn't make you more of Canada fan but it does make you less of a Canucks fan, and that's weird.

Do we really care how well our prospects do in a three week tournament?

 

I’d much rather care about how well they do in a Canucks jersey.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by shiznak

[Wiggums]

7 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

We really aren't rooting for Sweden though, are we?  We just want our guys to do well.  We couldn't care less about guys like Östlund, Bystedt or Edstrom - they're not our guys.  We're not celebrating when they score.  We're just happy that the team is doing well because it means our prospects are doing well.  Which they are.

 

I mean, your position makes even less sense.  You should be happy that Pettersson, Willander and Lekkerimäki are doing as well as they are.  Rooting against them doesn't make you more of Canada fan but it does make you less of a Canucks fan, and that's weird.

 

 What are you talking about?  Who is we?  I noticed multiple users(not you) were openly rooting for Sweden so I expressed that I was a bit shocked to see this.

 

I then said I am rooting for Sweden and our prospects except when they play Canada.   Yes I want our prospects to do well but ultimately I want my country to win a gold medal.  Crazy eh?

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

 What are you talking about?  Who is we?  I noticed multiple users(not you) were openly rooting for Sweden so I expressed that I was a bit shocked to see this.

 

I then said I am rooting for Sweden and our prospects except when they play Canada.   Yes I want our prospects to do well but ultimately I want my country to win a gold medal.  Crazy eh?

 

I wouldn't say I was rooting for them over Canada, necessarily.  Having three prospects changes the dynamic for me a bit, I want to see Sweden kick their curse and the conduct of hockey Canada has soyred me a bit as well

[Wiggums]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

I wouldn't say I was rooting for them over Canada, necessarily.  Having three prospects changes the dynamic for me a bit, I want to see Sweden kick their curse and the conduct of hockey Canada has soyred me a bit as well

 

It's much easier to stomach losing to a team with 3 of our prospects on it that is for certain.  Hopefully we see a gold medal rematch between the two of them

Edited December 29, 2023 by Wiggums

[kilgore]

31 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

Wasn't going to get into it as @stawns already has provided some sense to the topic. 

Your post is not a biased take at all. "it was DEFINITLEY the Swedish players intent to hit him on the numbers" "He WASN'T THINKING the Canadian was going to spin"

Alright mr. mind reader.. It wasn't clear at all that Forsfjäll initiates contact on the numbers but then drives the hit when the player is turned. Shoulder first into the boards. No intent to injure. He's 5'9 btw. Good to see Beck return to the game and take shifts after trying to sell a major call. If there would have been 2 minutes dished out it should have been for embellishing which we have seen plenty from Candian players over in the SHL. See: Brendan Shinimin who has gotten multiple suspensions for it.  

Good CLEAN hit that was determined after the refs reviewed the play for 5 minutes going over and over it in slow motion. Then give the Canadian coach an explanation who doesn't have a better response than "Oh you're gonna stand by that call?". He had nothing to argue because there was nothing to argue for a call. 

 

Pretty clear it was a "definite" hit on the number to start. so that means it was his intent no? That's not mind reading.

And if you want to laugh at the idea of mind reading, that is exactly what you propose the Swedish player was doing when he somehow knew the player was going to turn after he had already initiated the hit.  He was already "driving the the hit". Forsfjäll can't stop and start his  momentum again when, in a split second, he sees the player turning, and so then speeds up somehow into him.  That's not how physics works.

 

I'm not going to start over on this.  We agree to disagree. Next game.

[stawns]

Just now, Wiggums said:

 

It's much easier to stomach losing to a team with 3 of our prospects on it that is for certain.  Hopefully we see a gold medal rematch between the two of them

 

That's my hope as well.  When Canada and Sweden face off, it's a no lose scenario for me

[Miss Korea]

5 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Do we really care how well our prospects do in a three week tournament?

 

I’d much rather care about how well they do in a Canucks jersey.

 

If you have any interest in following prospects, then the answer is obviously YES.

 

These kids aren't playing for the Canucks anytime soon, so until then are we supposed to just not care?

Just now, Wiggums said:

What are you talking about?  Who is we?  I noticed multiple users(not you) were openly rooting for Sweden so I expressed that I was a bit shocked to see this.

 

I then said I am rooting for Sweden and our prospects except when they play Canada.   Yes I want our prospects to do well but ultimately I want my country to win a gold medal.  Crazy eh?

 

No one here is going to complain if Canada wins gold.  No one.  Except for that one American and Swedish guy here.

 

I missed most of the game, but if I had to choose I'd probably root for Sweden too.  Our prospects are the superstars on that team.  There are four Canucks on one team and zero on the other.  Ze-ro.  Some fans don't care about countries winning gold and just want their guys to do well.  I'm sure all the Canucks players/staff are very happy to see the prospects doing well.

 

Here's an example.  Maybe this photo upsets you, but it really shouldn't upset most Canucks fans.  It was an embarrassing tournament for Canada but most of us were happy for the twins.

 

[Miss Korea]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I wouldn't say I was rooting for them over Canada, necessarily.  Having three prospects changes the dynamic for me a bit, I want to see Sweden kick their curse and the conduct of hockey Canada has soyred me a bit as well

 

This is also a good point.  The state of hockey in Canada is a fucking joke right now, and the most humbling experience is for them to lose in international tournaments.

 

Want to know what's more obnoxious than an American sports fan?  A Team Canada fan.  Holy shit are these fans arrogant.  Canadian pride this, hockey heritage that... all while ignoring the fact that our every other fucking country has us completely outclassed in youth development and Hockey Canada continues to spend money on covering up scandal after scandal.

[DeltaSwede]

2 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Pretty clear it was a "definite" hit on the number to start. so that means it was his intent no? That's not mind reading.

And if you want to laugh at the idea of mind reading, that is exactly what you propose the Swedish player was doing when he somehow knew the player was going to turn after he had already initiated the hit.  He was already "driving the the hit". Forsfjäll can't stop and start his  momentum again when, in a split second, he sees the player turning, and so then speeds up somehow into him.  That's not how physics works.

 

I'm not going to start over on this.  We agree to disagree. Next game.

Haha, what a shit take.

 

He wasn't driving at all, he had his hands on his guy, like you do in hockey. Me laying my hand on your shoulder vs me pushing my hand down into your shoulder should be an easy example for you to imagine and understand. That's what is happening on that hit. That's how "physics" works. 

In your version, forsfjäll initiates a brutal hit on Beck. Beck then magically turns his body while being checked hard from behind and while not at all locked up by Forsfjalls arms for the hit. 

Watch the play instead of watching what you want to see match up with your biased take. 

[Miss Korea]

10 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

Haha, what a shit take.

 

He wasn't driving at all, he had his hands on his guy, like you do in hockey. Me laying my hand on your shoulder vs me pushing my hand down into your shoulder should be an easy example for you to imagine and understand. That's what is happening on that hit. That's how "physics" works. 

In your version, forsfjäll initiates a brutal hit on Beck. Beck then magically turns his body while being checked hard from behind and while not at all locked up by Forsfjalls arms for the hit. 

Watch the play instead of watching what you want to see match up with your biased take. 

 

 I think Canada got a make-up call a few minutes later, but it is bizarre that it goes from a 5 minute to zero.  It almost certainly should've been a minor penalty at least, but there's almost no recourse for refs to make that adjustment.  It's either a major or nothing, with no wiggle room.  That's weird to me.

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 I think Canada got a make-up call a few minutes later, but it is bizarre that it goes from a 5 minute to zero.  It almost certainly should've been a minor penalty at least, but there's almost no recourse for refs to make that adjustment.  It's either a major or nothing, with no wiggle room.  That's weird to me.

 

The same thing happened in Canadas favour against the Latvians (I think).

[Satchmo]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

 

 I think Canada got a make-up call a few minutes later, but it is bizarre that it goes from a 5 minute to zero.  It almost certainly should've been a minor penalty at least, but there's almost no recourse for refs to make that adjustment.  It's either a major or nothing, with no wiggle room.  That's weird to me.

It was called on ice as a two minute minor but was reviewable and could have gone to a four minute major or, as it sadly did, to zero.   It could also have gone higher to a game misconduct (is the correct term in IIHF a match penalty?) and even a single or multi game suspension though I don't think that particular hit called for any of those possibilities.

 

Not sure if five minutes was an option but it might have been.   As a homer, I did not like the call but I can understand it. 

 

  

[DeltaSwede]

13 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 I think Canada got a make-up call a few minutes later, but it is bizarre that it goes from a 5 minute to zero.  It almost certainly should've been a minor penalty at least, but there's almost no recourse for refs to make that adjustment.  It's either a major or nothing, with no wiggle room.  That's weird to me.

Celebrini didn't get a suspension for his vicious boarding call in the pre tournament game. 

I have no complaints on the major call and following suspension on Salomonsson for Sweden although it being much lighter in nature than the Celebrini one. 

This was nothing. Hard hit that certainly looked violent. Player get's checked from the side and his shoulder drives into the boards. Probably got winded. 

[LillStrimma]

45 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

 What are you talking about?  Who is we?  I noticed multiple users(not you) were openly rooting for Sweden so I expressed that I was a bit shocked to see this.

 

I then said I am rooting for Sweden and our prospects except when they play Canada.   Yes I want our prospects to do well but ultimately I want my country to win a gold medal.  Crazy eh?

I root for Sweden all the time so I’m a bit shocked also… 

[Googlie]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

Say Elias Pettersson never makes the NHL, Lekkerimaki gets traded and Willander becomes a 3rd pairing D.  

 

These guys don't technically even play for the Canucks yet.  I'm just surprised and  little disappointed seeing so many people here saying they are cheering for Sweden.  I see a lack of patriotism and Canadian pride.  These are our Canadian children and they should have our support. 

 

We can still cheer for Canucks prospects to have individual success, world Junior tournaments don't make or break NHL careers anyways so might as well cheer for your own home country imo.

 

Not everyone on these boards are born Canadian, though we might have taken citizenship.  Our European blood still tingles with European team successes

[kilgore]

2 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

Haha, what a shit take.

 

He wasn't driving at all, he had his hands on his guy, like you do in hockey. Me laying my hand on your shoulder vs me pushing my hand down into your shoulder should be an easy example for you to imagine and understand. That's what is happening on that hit. That's how "physics" works. 

In your version, forsfjäll initiates a brutal hit on Beck. Beck then magically turns his body while being checked hard from behind and while not at all locked up by Forsfjalls arms for the hit. 

Watch the play instead of watching what you want to see match up with your biased take. 

 

Wasn't driving at all? Haha

 

First just follow Forsfjäll's actions in the three images. He starts by getting in close right on the numbers, then leans into the push/hit towards the boards.  Look at his final stance.

If you then just follow Beck, he manages to squirm his body into a start of a turn during the hit. Still gets his head slammed into the glass.

Forsfjäll does not KNOW Beck will turn.  He's just completing his check. An illegal check that started on the numbers.  Lets just say it started as an illegal check, but ended as a technically legal hit because of where Beck's body ended up when it hit the boards because he managed to squirmed his body a little around.  I guess the refs thought the last part overrode the first part.  Its about if you think "Intent" should be part of a punishment.

 

 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Wasn't driving at all? Haha

 

First just follow Forsfjäll's actions in the three images. He starts by getting in close right on the numbers, then leans into the push/hit towards the boards.  Look at his final stance.

If you then just follow Beck, he manages to squirm his body into a start of a turn during the hit. Still gets his head slammed into the glass.

Forsfjäll does not KNOW Beck will turn.  He's just completing his check. An illegal check that started on the numbers.  Lets just say it started as an illegal check, but ended as a technically legal hit because of where Beck's body ended up when it hit the boards because he managed to squirmed his body a little around.  I guess the refs thought the last part overrode the first part.  Its about if you think "Intent" should be part of a punishment.

 

 

 

All that does is show it was shoulder to board.  He's turned 90 degrees before he makes contact with the boards.  I did t think it was a penalty at the time and watching it frame by frame only reinforced that.  

 

Tough hit though, no doubt.

[Rekker]

18 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

All that does is show it was shoulder to board.  He's turned 90 degrees before he makes contact with the boards.  I did t think it was a penalty at the time and watching it frame by frame only reinforced that.  

 

Tough hit though, no doubt.

I wonder if the refs took into 

consideration that the Canadian player turned into the boards knowing full well contact was imminent, if not already engaged. Both my kids play D and I would be on them for turning in like that. I really don't like how he turned into the boards there. To me, he turned knowing full well contact was most likely coming. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Rekker