Friedman Believes Capitals Interested In Canucks’ Kuzmenko

[JeremyCuddles]

46 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Lockwood? He's with the Panthers now I believe.

Yeah I was being facetious.

[Attila Umbrus]

2 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Yeah I was being facetious.

Whoops sorry

[Devron]

Capitals can suck it!

[TheGuardian]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:37 PM, BPA said:

Canucks have like 7-9 coaches at practice.  That includes the Sedins.  You telling me that Kuz is not getting any help from any of them?

 

So you want to fire Tocchet instead of trading Kuz?  I’m sorry but Canucks are at the top of the league and pretty sure it has to do more with Tocchet than with Kuz.

 

Kuz played great last year under Bruce Boudreau.  But now doesn’t fit quite well under Tocchet.  That is just the way it goes sometimes.  It’s up to Kuz to play Tocchets way or he will eventually get traded.

Not fire Tocchet but take him off the pedestal. He learned to be a great speaker live on air, it was his job.  7 to 9 coaches speak good of him, that he brought that many onboard.

 

Comparing BB and Tocchet's time. Last year how many games did Demko play for BB? Where are the goalies from last year anyway?

 

Kuz got 21 goals under BB in 50 games, Kuz got 18 goals under Tocchet's 30 games. End of comparison there. He fit pretty well last year in that big surge they had.

 

Kuz to play Tocchet's way? Kuz was never signed to be anything other than a talented goal scoring winger for Pettersson and they messed pretty good ouut scoring the opposition together and bot putting up big point totals.

 

Never seen a player play his way onto a team from the press box

[qwijjibo]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

Not fire Tocchet but take him off the pedestal. He learned to be a great speaker live on air, it was his job.  7 to 9 coaches speak good of him, that he brought that many onboard.

 

Comparing BB and Tocchet's time. Last year how many games did Demko play for BB? Where are the goalies from last year anyway?

 

Kuz got 21 goals under BB in 50 games, Kuz got 18 goals under Tocchet's 30 games. End of comparison there. He fit pretty well last year in that big surge they had.

 

Kuz to play Tocchet's way? Kuz was never signed to be anything other than a talented goal scoring winger for Pettersson and they messed pretty good ouut scoring the opposition together and bot putting up big point totals.

 

Never seen a player play his way onto a team from the press box

Have you considered the possibility that Tocchet doesn't like what he's seeing from Kuzmenko in practice enough to change what has been a winning lineup?  Kuzmenko knows what he has to do.  Show the coach you're committed to playing the right way in practice first.

[TheGuardian]

Just now, qwijjibo said:

Have you considered the possibility that Tocchet doesn't like what he's seeing from Kuzmenko in practice enough to change what has been a winning lineup?  Kuzmenko knows what he has to do.  Show the coach you're committed to playing the right way in practice first.

So it took Tocchet 7 months and hours of video to just come up with this epiphany?

Practice, you're talking about, PRACTICE

Sure it is a possibility but does punishing a player make them better? OR encouraging them? Punishment only causes doubt and worry about making a mistake.

But who knows maybe Kuzmenko, being a Euro and a professional, isn't too worried as he does his job and gets paid regardless of benching.

Now that the league thinks it is just him being in Tocchet's doghouse won't change his value when he becomes a FA after next year. He has a clause contract too so he can meddle with trades.

Allvin knew what he was when he was signed, they had a year to evaluate, talk to Pettersson and his agent. He has never been Tocchet or anything close. He is 27 years old and a sophomore NHL player. As he has shown in a couple of his last goals he is a sniper and can get open by himself. He is also one of the best at deflections.

 

There are 7 coaches, what is the "right way"? Often quoted but never really explained except in a generic form. The right way for one player might not be the right way for another. If so why is Hughes getting so much ice time, the "right way" to play defence is to box out the middle, move the guy out from in front of the net, win board battles and not spend over 2 minutes on a shift. Now Dahlin can do all that, Makar does that, Dobson does that and even Bouchard albeit not great. They all put up points too. But you see what I mean, a coach sometimes has to mix strengths wit weaknesses to make good lines.

 

Not just come out with a cookie cutter and make all the same.

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

Not fire Tocchet but take him off the pedestal. He learned to be a great speaker live on air, it was his job.  7 to 9 coaches speak good of him, that he brought that many onboard.

 

Comparing BB and Tocchet's time. Last year how many games did Demko play for BB? Where are the goalies from last year anyway?

 

Kuz got 21 goals under BB in 50 games, Kuz got 18 goals under Tocchet's 30 games. End of comparison there. He fit pretty well last year in that big surge they had.

 

Kuz to play Tocchet's way? Kuz was never signed to be anything other than a talented goal scoring winger for Pettersson and they messed pretty good ouut scoring the opposition together and bot putting up big point totals.

 

Never seen a player play his way onto a team from the press box

 

While I get the sentiment in how BB was poorly fired, we can't just forget how well this team is doing right now. One player in the doghouse on a team that's literally ON TOP of the entire league and you want to take the coach of said team off the pedestal? Is that really a hill worth dying on at the moment?

 

Like I said, I understand liking Boudreau and I understand disliking how he was fired... but come on...

[qwijjibo]

19 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

So it took Tocchet 7 months and hours of video to just come up with this epiphany?

Practice, you're talking about, PRACTICE

Sure it is a possibility but does punishing a player make them better? OR encouraging them? Punishment only causes doubt and worry about making a mistake.

But who knows maybe Kuzmenko, being a Euro and a professional, isn't too worried as he does his job and gets paid regardless of benching.

Now that the league thinks it is just him being in Tocchet's doghouse won't change his value when he becomes a FA after next year. He has a clause contract too so he can meddle with trades.

Allvin knew what he was when he was signed, they had a year to evaluate, talk to Pettersson and his agent. He has never been Tocchet or anything close. He is 27 years old and a sophomore NHL player. As he has shown in a couple of his last goals he is a sniper and can get open by himself. He is also one of the best at deflections.

 

There are 7 coaches, what is the "right way"? Often quoted but never really explained except in a generic form. The right way for one player might not be the right way for another. If so why is Hughes getting so much ice time, the "right way" to play defence is to box out the middle, move the guy out from in front of the net, win board battles and not spend over 2 minutes on a shift. Now Dahlin can do all that, Makar does that, Dobson does that and even Bouchard albeit not great. They all put up points too. But you see what I mean, a coach sometimes has to mix strengths wit weaknesses to make good lines.

 

Not just come out with a cookie cutter and make all the same.

I'm saying maybe second guessing the coaching staff over the handling of a player when you don’t have all the information is maybe a bit myopic.  You're not on the bench, in the locker room, at the practices.  You dont know what sort of meetings/discussions/interactions there have been between the coaching  staff and Kuzmenko to get to this point. Millstien says everything is fine and there's a plan in place. If Kuzmenko was feeling that mistreated I'm guessing the media would have caught wind of it by now.  

[48MPHSlapshot]

You can always tell when someone is just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

[TheGuardian]

36 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

I'm saying maybe second guessing the coaching staff over the handling of a player when you don’t have all the information is maybe a bit myopic.  You're not on the bench, in the locker room, at the practices.  You dont know what sort of meetings/discussions/interactions there have been between the coaching  staff and Kuzmenko to get to this point. Millstien says everything is fine and there's a plan in place. If Kuzmenko was feeling that mistreated I'm guessing the media would have caught wind of it by now.  

While Kuzmenko may be aware of the media frenzy to get him traded the news is probably 2nd hand. Russian speakers. Although some of the media is certainly carrying the torch for Tocchet's decision and adding gasoline to the fire.

Have there been any meetings? Tocchet says there have been, Kuz mentioned meeting in his post game interview. Milstein said everything was fine with Zad too until it wasn't. Milstein is a one of a kind though often in the lime light.

You are aware that Kuz is a 2nd year player? The sophomore jinx? Not a real inexperienced rookie true but has played a certain way for 15 years or so. And last year excelled under Tocchet scoring 18 goals in 30 game during that surge.

 

I do know that constantly criticizing, benching and throwing a player under the bus in the media does create a loss of confidence and doubt when playing. Worry about being benched again. I am sure that Allvin would not be thrilled to pay 11 million dollars to have a player watch the games and then walk away for peanuts

[Sophomore Jinx]

14 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

While Kuzmenko may be aware of the media frenzy to get him traded the news is probably 2nd hand. Russian speakers. Although some of the media is certainly carrying the torch for Tocchet's decision and adding gasoline to the fire.

Have there been any meetings? Tocchet says there have been, Kuz mentioned meeting in his post game interview. Milstein said everything was fine with Zad too until it wasn't. Milstein is a one of a kind though often in the lime light.

You are aware that Kuz is a 2nd year player? The sophomore jinx? Not a real inexperienced rookie true but has played a certain way for 15 years or so. And last year excelled under Tocchet scoring 18 goals in 30 game during that surge.

 

I do know that constantly criticizing, benching and throwing a player under the bus in the media does create a loss of confidence and doubt when playing. Worry about being benched again. I am sure that Allvin would not be thrilled to pay 11 million dollars to have a player watch the games and then walk away for peanuts

Yes, I am aware

 

I think there are valid points on both sides of the arguments, but it all boils down to what's best for the team, and I wish the best for Kuz, he's a good guy and is valuable to the team.

[Rekker]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

You can always tell when someone is just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

Yip. One of my pet peeves and punch worthy at times. 

[qwijjibo]

20 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

While Kuzmenko may be aware of the media frenzy to get him traded the news is probably 2nd hand. Russian speakers. Although some of the media is certainly carrying the torch for Tocchet's decision and adding gasoline to the fire.

Have there been any meetings? Tocchet says there have been, Kuz mentioned meeting in his post game interview. Milstein said everything was fine with Zad too until it wasn't. Milstein is a one of a kind though often in the lime light.

You are aware that Kuz is a 2nd year player? The sophomore jinx? Not a real inexperienced rookie true but has played a certain way for 15 years or so. And last year excelled under Tocchet scoring 18 goals in 30 game during that surge.

 

I do know that constantly criticizing, benching and throwing a player under the bus in the media does create a loss of confidence and doubt when playing. Worry about being benched again. I am sure that Allvin would not be thrilled to pay 11 million dollars to have a player watch the games and then walk away for peanuts

I don't think you csm really apply the sophomore Jinx argument to a 27 year old player who has been a professional player for several years. Also, the issue doesn't really seem to be what he does or doesn't do WITH the puck.  It's his lack of a defense e game that seems to be problem.  But again. What I'm saying is you really have no idea what's been said abd discussed between tge player and the coaching staff.  No fan does.  This is the approach rhe coaches have decided on.  I don't imagine its arbitrary or punitive.  Kuzmenko says he knows what he has to do.  Millstien says there's a plan.  So why not just let it play out? Do you think it's anyone's preference to have a $5m player sitting in the press box?  

[The Lock]

51 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

While Kuzmenko may be aware of the media frenzy to get him traded the news is probably 2nd hand. Russian speakers. Although some of the media is certainly carrying the torch for Tocchet's decision and adding gasoline to the fire.

Have there been any meetings? Tocchet says there have been, Kuz mentioned meeting in his post game interview. Milstein said everything was fine with Zad too until it wasn't. Milstein is a one of a kind though often in the lime light.

You are aware that Kuz is a 2nd year player? The sophomore jinx? Not a real inexperienced rookie true but has played a certain way for 15 years or so. And last year excelled under Tocchet scoring 18 goals in 30 game during that surge.

 

I do know that constantly criticizing, benching and throwing a player under the bus in the media does create a loss of confidence and doubt when playing. Worry about being benched again. I am sure that Allvin would not be thrilled to pay 11 million dollars to have a player watch the games and then walk away for peanuts

 

I'm sure Allvin is also thrilled about having a team that's performing well on the ice. I'm also pretty sure that's going to outweigh any frustration of someone having been benched for 5 games. Like, what you're saying here is irrelevant at the end of the day. I hope Kuz turns it around, but as long as the team's playing well, none of this matters.

 

Seriously dude, you're waaaaaaaay overthinking all this. lol

Edited December 24, 2023 by The Lock

[MeanSeanBean]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

So it took Tocchet 7 months and hours of video to just come up with this epiphany?

Practice, you're talking about, PRACTICE

Sure it is a possibility but does punishing a player make them better? OR encouraging them? Punishment only causes doubt and worry about making a mistake.

But who knows maybe Kuzmenko, being a Euro and a professional, isn't too worried as he does his job and gets paid regardless of benching.

Now that the league thinks it is just him being in Tocchet's doghouse won't change his value when he becomes a FA after next year. He has a clause contract too so he can meddle with trades.

Allvin knew what he was when he was signed, they had a year to evaluate, talk to Pettersson and his agent. He has never been Tocchet or anything close. He is 27 years old and a sophomore NHL player. As he has shown in a couple of his last goals he is a sniper and can get open by himself. He is also one of the best at deflections.

 

There are 7 coaches, what is the "right way"? Often quoted but never really explained except in a generic form. The right way for one player might not be the right way for another. If so why is Hughes getting so much ice time, the "right way" to play defence is to box out the middle, move the guy out from in front of the net, win board battles and not spend over 2 minutes on a shift. Now Dahlin can do all that, Makar does that, Dobson does that and even Bouchard albeit not great. They all put up points too. But you see what I mean, a coach sometimes has to mix strengths wit weaknesses to make good lines.

 

Not just come out with a cookie cutter and make all the same.

Well so far Tocc has tough loved Joshua into one of the hottest players on the team, got Garland driving what's currently our best line, seen star players like Miller and Hughes flourish under him, rehabilitated Juulsen from someone fans were screaming to be sent to Abby to a useful 3rd line defensemen and is the current front runner for coach of the year.... But yes, Tocc doesn't know how to get through to players.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Well so far Tocc has tough loved Joshua into one of the hottest players on the team, got Garland driving what's currently our best line, seen star players like Miller and Hughes flourish under him, rehabilitated Juulsen from someone fans were screaming to be sent to Abby to a useful 3rd line defensemen and is the current front runner for coach of the year.... But yes, Tocc doesn't know how to get through to players.

 

 

I agree.  Tocchet is doing a great job.  At the end of the day, it's up to Kuzmenko to try and learn some forechecking and backchecking.  If he can do that great, if not he needs to be traded to a team with a less rigorous defensive system in place.  Edmonton would be a perfect fit for him.  Kuzmenko can score 35-40 goals in this league.  Those types of players will always be wanted by somebody, I don't care how bad they are playing defence.

[stawns]

How about 

 

 

 

Kuz and 2024 3rd rounder

 

 

 

Mantha

 

Lorio

 

1st (maybe a second)

 

 

 

Use the 1st to find a winger for Petey, mantha will do in the meantime.

[qwijjibo]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

How about 

 

 

 

Kuz and 2024 3rd rounder

 

 

 

Mantha

 

Lorio

 

1st (maybe a second)

 

 

 

Use the 1st to find a winger for Petey, mantha will do in the meantime.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a guy who keeps getting scratched for non-existent defensive play and who is on track for 20ish goals has that sort of value in a trade 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a guy who keeps getting scratched for non-existent defensive play and who is on track for 20ish goals has that sort of value in a trade 

 

Well, Washington wants to get rid of mantha and they get a 3rd as well.  If they keep on the same trajectory their 1st will be in the 20-32 range, so not the same kind of value as a top 10 or 15.  

 

I'm guessing that managers around the league understand that he's kind of being restrained by a pretty rigid defensive system and would bet on 30 goals if he's got a longer leash.

[stawns]

34 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a guy who keeps getting scratched for non-existent defensive play and who is on track for 20ish goals has that sort of value in a trade 

 

Aside from that, do you think that's a fair trade for both teams?

[qwijjibo]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

Well, Washington wants to get rid of mantha and they get a 3rd as well.  If they keep on the same trajectory their 1st will be in the 20-32 range, so not the same kind of value as a top 10 or 15.  

 

I'm guessing that managers around the league understand that he's kind of being restrained by a pretty rigid defensive system and would bet on 30 goals if he's got a longer leash.

I honestly think that hes a 20-25 guy at best. I think its safe to say last season was an outlier.  (based on his shooting percentage).

 

Mantha is a cap dump, but he's on an expiring contract so they won't be desperate to move him.  

 

Iorio is a big, young, right shot D.  

 

Asking for a 1st and Iorio just seems like to much. Take Iorio out and it's probably closer to what Kuzmenko's value is right now 

 

 

[JayDangles]

14 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

Not fire Tocchet but take him off the pedestal. He learned to be a great speaker live on air, it was his job.  7 to 9 coaches speak good of him, that he brought that many onboard.

 

Comparing BB and Tocchet's time. Last year how many games did Demko play for BB? Where are the goalies from last year anyway?

 

Kuz got 21 goals under BB in 50 games, Kuz got 18 goals under Tocchet's 30 games. End of comparison there. He fit pretty well last year in that big surge they had.

 

Kuz to play Tocchet's way? Kuz was never signed to be anything other than a talented goal scoring winger for Pettersson and they messed pretty good ouut scoring the opposition together and bot putting up big point totals.

 

Never seen a player play his way onto a team from the press box

Hoglander... boom mic drop

[DownUndaCanuck]

Trade Kuzmenko to an Eastern conference team and they'll put him on their top line, play a very loose defensive structure and Kuzmenko will put up 30-40 goals again and make the trade look horrendous but end up being -20. I certainly wouldn't give up on Kuz just yet, he seems like the type of guy who wants to get better and play in this team as a top player. If we can harness that, plus his pure offensive talent, we'll have a real monster here. He's still only young and if he can buy in to Tocchet's system and conditioning then look-out. I'd give him a good year or two to try really. He's no Virtanen, we need to really work with Kuz because he's shown us that if we stick with him we'll reap the rewards.

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Trade Kuzmenko to an Eastern conference team and they'll put him on their top line, play a very loose defensive structure and Kuzmenko will put up 30-40 goals again and make the trade look horrendous but end up being -20. I certainly wouldn't give up on Kuz just yet, he seems like the type of guy who wants to get better and play in this team as a top player. If we can harness that, plus his pure offensive talent, we'll have a real monster here. He's still only young and if he can buy in to Tocchet's system and conditioning then look-out. I'd give him a good year or two to try really. He's no Virtanen, we need to really work with Kuz because he's shown us that if we stick with him we'll reap the rewards.

At 27 we are likely seeing peak Kuz. Media suggests that he is committed to playing a 200' game. If he does can he still produce ppg? Does Petey and Mik need a bigger player who can work the corners and create more offence? A ++PDG if you will. It makes me wonder if Joshua gets a shot there. I know that the 3rd line is actually carrying the team right now but Petey's line needs more consistency. To an extent what happens is how the coaches and PA view the overall team as they edge towards playoffs. 

[canucks curse]

to be honest, I do not think a team will give up much for Kuzy, just our luck as Canuck fans, I totally believe this management group knows what to do, 

 

I would love a Tom Wilson type player or Lawson crouse. I think this management group is looking for a big bodied rugged forward who is a true top 6 player, but they are not going to break the bank and they realize that this sort of piece is a support piece 

 

 

these might be a stretch but here we go:

 

To VAN

Tom Wilson

 

To WSH

Kyzmenko

Mcdonaugh

Filip Johansson

 

 

 

To NSH

Kuzmenko

Linus Karlsson

McDonaugh

 

 

To VAN

Colton Sisssons

Matt Wood

 

 

 

 

I could also see a Kuzmenko + a prospect like McDonaugh/Klimovich/ for Colton Sissons + A- prospect ( Tanner Molendyk, Matthew Wood, Askarov), scission local guy is now like 3C/low end 2C and plays a real hard game that we would all love incl Toch, a bit older than Kuzy and only has like 2 years left.

Edited December 25, 2023 by canucks curse