[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Dallas Stars // December 21, 2023

[Guest]

I could see the nit-picking if the Canucks were a floundering .500 team, but they're not.

 

Great road trip

Fun Game

3rd Line continues to buzz...Joshua has been playing some great hockey this last week (2 weeks?)

Love having solid goaltending

 

When you can LOSE in OT and take over 1st....things are going pretty good. You can't expect perfection over an 82 game season. Marathon, Folks! Petey could have 6 points in the next 3 games and all will be forgotten....until next mini-slump. We will be ok! Just enjoy the exciting hockey. 1 more game before Ho-Ho, enjoy time with your family and friends! Merry Christmas!

[Blue]

Jeff Paterson is usually in favour of the current thing. But on the post game pod , he really took issue with the Kuzmenko situation. PDG hasn't got a goal in 24 games and hasn't scored on a goaltender since October 25th vs St Louis. The power-play is bad now but Kuzmenko was a part of the lights out power play at the start of the year. Get him in the lineup and live with some of his warts ! He said. And i agree 100%

[PeteyBOI]

48 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Garland finally scored!! Hopefully this means he's now about to go on one of his hot streaks.

 

Sad I missed this game, seems like it was a pretty entertaining one.

it doesnt matter if he scores or not.. he is the reason that line is so hot... 

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[tas]

4 hours ago, PistolPete13 said:

In 2011  Sid Crosby went 12 games in a row without a goal and in 2017 he went 11 games in a row without a goal.

It happens to the best of them.

Pittsburgh should have put him in stocks outside the arena and let the fans whack him with a paddle for such insolence. 

[DrJockitch]

Hate to see us blow a late lead. 
The OT was embarrassing. We retrieved the puck once and gave it up so easily. 
‘First in the league, can’t really complain too much, that Dallas team is really good and MH was killing us all night

[Jaimito]

40 minutes ago, Blue said:

Jeff Paterson is usually in favour of the current thing. But on the post game pod , he really took issue with the Kuzmenko situation. PDG hasn't got a goal in 24 games and hasn't scored on a goaltender since October 25th vs St Louis. The power-play is bad now but Kuzmenko was a part of the lights out power play at the start of the year. Get him in the lineup and live with some of his warts ! He said. And i agree 100%

 

See if he gets a shot next game. 

[tas]

40 minutes ago, Blue said:

Jeff Paterson is usually in favour of the current thing. But on the post game pod , he really took issue with the Kuzmenko situation. PDG hasn't got a goal in 24 games and hasn't scored on a goaltender since October 25th vs St Louis. The power-play is bad now but Kuzmenko was a part of the lights out power play at the start of the year. Get him in the lineup and live with some of his warts ! He said. And i agree 100%

the point flies right over jpat's head just like it does half the people here then. 

 

it's not about production, it's about the process. this team is about playing the right way now, not about cheating to pot a goal to pad your stats. 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, HKSR said:

He went from a 120+ point pace to now a 98 point pace in a span of a few weeks.  Let's revisit in a couple weeks.  I will be more than happy to eat crow if he is still where he is come late January.  I just don't see any signs of him turning it on.

X-mas break.   All-star break.   There is some days of rest coming.    Pretty sure we see Kuzmenko back against SJ.    We finish the Christmas and 2023, at or near the top in the league, and EPs seemed off at times, just like usual (that is his career norm so far).   Not much to worry about and for sure very little to complain about.    He's going to get 10 no matter what (given recent deals).   EPs not superman.   But he is an Alien.  

[PeteyBOI]

4 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I bet RT is second guessing that decision. I am a big fan of what he's done by the way. I think he's done an amazing job with this team. 

i really don't think so... Cole has been a proven shut down Dman for years, Myers too... BUT myers has a terrible game vs the elite players and a very good game vs the bottom 9... the reason when Myers and Cole get paired together is specific to shutdown players... Zadorov has never been a shutdown dman, and always a tier 2 PK unit, never top unit.

 

so what that tells me is that if tocchet is wrong so are ALL the other coaches that had Myers, Cole and Zadorov on the team... the thing with players like Cole is that like players Denis Savard, Hakanpaa, Ben Chiarot,Trouba they dont score and provide little offense they are often slow, big and mean. and like the first goal where Cole just got beat in a foot race off the rush,shit like this is gonna happen, but when given the chance to setup in the Dzone they are your best players on the ice...

 

the other option than playing these two players is playing Juulsen more minutes... he is the only other RD, clearly he is not trusted and for a lesser extent zadorov/cole the same.

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, tas said:

the point flies right over jpat's head just like it does half the people here then. 

 

it's not about production, it's about the process. this team is about playing the right way now, not about cheating to pot a goal to pad your stats. 

Yes.  I couldn't care less if we win at close to .700 all the time, and those are 2-1 games.    Team  hasn't lost in regulation when holding a lead going into the 3rd period once so far this season.   That's almost unheard of.   When guys are tired or not 100%, they don't have to worry as much either, they fall back to the system and can trust each other to do the same.    I'm sure they are working hard with Kuzmennko 1 on 1, to help him understand what they are looking for out of him.    When he gets back, he very well could be a 20/20 guy, and that's ok IF he's playing the system.   If he isn't or can't, we need to trade him. 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, sxqhfeh said:

sick of stupid fanboys can't let anybody have a negative view of Pettersson, this is another classic game of him against a big heavy team, his only real chance was 2 on 0, but he has zero confidence on that breakaway. Joshua was on his off hand, why pass it? It is now clear that the reason he doesn’t get pancaked is because the 165 lb broom falling down all over the ice is actually BETTER for the other team than having him out of the lineup. Please, for the love of God, if you are afraid of facing the fking trues, at least don't lie to yourself

I'm pretty sick of fans who act like fickle spoiled brats.   "High Standards".    Let's be good stakeholders, and work on a well earned, and very deserved reputation as fans who are extremely hard on our star players.   This is a prime example.   Not just our star players either.   Edler was a massive whipping boy, it started right away, because he didn't become that perrenial 50 plus point guy, and carried on throughout his career.   Sedin Sisters.    A gigantic portion of the fanbase blaming Luongo for losing the cup.   The guy who got us to the final, won the first two games allowing 1 goal.    Brock.  Myers.   Garland.   For the regular players the past couple years.   Miller of course, and still some "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" posters won't let we "should have traded him" go.     

 

Why not just be happy with what we have?  A lot of former top players were streaky.    EP is a star.   So is Miller.   Brock is playing like one now too (and was one of a few posters, who didn't get into the Brock pounding, often defended him).     All he needs to do, this year, is score 73 or so points, and score more against then he's scored on, and he's made the "par" line, for his current cap hit.  

 

Brought this up a couple times in his signing thread.   God help him, and us and our reputation as fans, if he signs for something like 12 and he's "only" scoring 100.   

[DelPiLeo]

Some regrets in this game, but no complaints on this 6 out of 8 points road trip.

[bishopshodan]

41 minutes ago, tas said:

the point flies right over jpat's head just like it does half the people here then. 

 

it's not about production, it's about the process. this team is about playing the right way now, not about cheating to pot a goal to pad your stats. 

The poster and Jpat pointed out the PP is missing Kuz, which is a good point. Also wonders if PDG brings more to the the table lately... a decent quandary. 

Dont know why you feel the need to insult half the posters on this board. You are a smart hockey mind,  you shouldnt need to rip others to prop yourself up.

 

Anyway, Tocc is doing well but I hope he doesn't wreck a top tier goal scorer. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by bishopshodan

[tas]

9 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

The poster and Jpat pointed out the PP is missing Kuz, which is a good point. Also wonders if PDG brings more to the the table lately... a decent quandary. 

Dont know why you feel the need to insult half the posters on this board. You are a smart hockey mind,  you shouldnt need to rip others to prop yourself up.

 

Anyway, Tocc is doing well but I hope he doesn't wreck a top tier goal scorer. 

I'm doing what I have to do to battle against the narrative around this team. I'm sick of it. it's been a decade of negative children screaming and whining and I'm done with it. I'm on a warpath this season so get on board or get out of the way. 

 

as far as the pp goes, sure. but it's on the other guys to adapt. 

 

and pdg has been scratched as much or more than kuzmenko, no?

 

edit: pdg only 3 scratches compared to kuzmenko's 4. the key difference is that when pdg isn't producing, he isn't hurting the team. kuzmenko needs to produce, and his lapses and lack of effort in certain areas are like a double whammy when he's not. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by tas

[PeteyBOI]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.  I couldn't care less if we win at close to .700 all the time, and those are 2-1 games.    Team  hasn't lost in regulation when holding a lead going into the 3rd period once so far this season.   That's almost unheard of.   When guys are tired or not 100%, they don't have to worry as much either, they fall back to the system and can trust each other to do the same.    I'm sure they are working hard with Kuzmennko 1 on 1, to help him understand what they are looking for out of him.    When he gets back, he very well could be a 20/20 guy, and that's ok IF he's playing the system.   If he isn't or can't, we need to trade him. 

I really hope he figures it out,and figure out when he is on the fourth line its not a punishment its a opportunity to learn. you get to watch what the other players are doing right, AND get the chance to play the system against weaker opponents... the other thing he has to learn is that when on the PP is that he is not "the guy" anymore, he needs to be open and moving with the playersin transition as they all shake up the position... if done correctly he should be motioning behind the net as the guys move clockwise taking JT's Spot and looking for JT/Pete for one timers. he also needs to crash the net when QH walks the line high chance he just rips a shot but if hes crashing he might be open for a slap pass, deflection, or tip...

 

 

[PeteyBOI]

17 minutes ago, DelPiLeo said:

Some regrets in this game, but no complaints on this 6 out of 8 points road trip.

6/8 on the road is better than any record of any team. we should be ecstatic not saying you arent...

 

just im kind of confused about people ripping on EP... why??? so they can be right one/two/three years down the line if he underperforms after signing a new deal?

 

Hey look at me guys i told you about petey all the time... 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

The poster and Jpat pointed out the PP is missing Kuz, which is a good point. Also wonders if PDG brings more to the the table lately... a decent quandary. 

Dont know why you feel the need to insult half the posters on this board. You are a smart hockey mind,  you shouldnt need to rip others to prop yourself up.

 

Anyway, Tocc is doing well but I hope he doesn't wreck a top tier goal scorer. 

Know you're responding to @tas , but that's a good point.     Do feel it's a valid thing to settle things down.    And that like tas said, it's about the process or system.    Kuzmenko is becoming a distraction.   Tochett has earned more then enough, to not question his process on whatever it is exactly they (coaching staff) are working on with him. 

 

As for top tier, yes he's done it once.   Wasn't a goal scorer in the KHL.   And wasn't really doing it during our hot start either, despite having the same opportunities he had with Bruce and Tochett last year.     A regression in shooting percentage was anticipated.   Top tier would be 35 plus year after year.    EP is just getting into that realm.     There are a lot of guys, who have one off years as well, and a lot of blue chippers who have off years too.    

 

This year has some similarities to 94 and 2011.   In 94 we played almost entire year with a major distraction.   Our "top tier", second line center, 6'3" Nedved,  was sitting out wanting the third contract money after one good season.  

 

2011, because like back then, we approached the Christmas break at or near top of the league, tops in goals for, tops in goals against etc.   

 

It's an interesting duality.    If we weren't doing as well, i'd be very concerned about Kuzmenko too.   Sure was concerned about Nedved back then.   It was very obvious, he had loads of potential.    Difference is, Kuzmenko is already who he is.   A skilled player, for sure, but is he actually top tier?  

 

Pretty sure he plays against SJ, because Tochett won't be worried about him not playing the system as much.   And the PP could use a boost.    It's a nice problem to have.  If Tochett, Foote, Gonchar and the Sedins can mould him into more of a two-way player, who's 25/25, there is nothing wrong with that.   Brock and Garland have added massive value to this teams fortunes buying into the system.    Can't mess with those lines.   EP for sure deserves a better wing mate and hopefully that's Kuzmenko or if not, Allvin can create a trade that works for all involved. 

[tas]

3 minutes ago, MidKnight Ego said:

6/8 on the road is better than any record of any team. we should be ecstatic not saying you arent...

 

just im kind of confused about people ripping on EP... why??? so they can be right one/two/three years down the line if he underperforms after signing a new deal?

 

Hey look at me guys i told you about petey all the time... 

this is the thing. picking nits with your best player serves what function? all it does is create negative feelings. 

[PeteyBOI]

20 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

The poster and Jpat pointed out the PP is missing Kuz, which is a good point. Also wonders if PDG brings more to the the table lately... a decent quandary. 

Dont know why you feel the need to insult half the posters on this board. You are a smart hockey mind,  you shouldnt need to rip others to prop yourself up.

 

Anyway, Tocc is doing well but I hope he doesn't wreck a top tier goal scorer. 

is it? his 6 points? Hronek has 9 and the same amount of goals... when someone isnt doing there homework, something is wrong... remember Media makes money by getting clicks they purposely tell white lies or even blatant ones just to get clicks...

 

thank you... I will make sure to add Jpatt my list of condemned media to watch.

[Conscience]

https://discord.gg/FgYRc8cG

 

a place for all things canucks

[stawns]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Hate to see us blow a late lead. 
The OT was embarrassing. We retrieved the puck once and gave it up so easily. 
‘First in the league, can’t really complain too much, that Dallas team is really good and MH was killing us all night

 

That's more about overtime itself than the Canucks.  Something has to be done there.  

[stawns]

1 hour ago, MidKnight Ego said:

i really don't think so... Cole has been a proven shut down Dman for years, Myers too... BUT myers has a terrible game vs the elite players and a very good game vs the bottom 9... the reason when Myers and Cole get paired together is specific to shutdown players... Zadorov has never been a shutdown dman, and always a tier 2 PK unit, never top unit.

 

so what that tells me is that if tocchet is wrong so are ALL the other coaches that had Myers, Cole and Zadorov on the team... the thing with players like Cole is that like players Denis Savard, Hakanpaa, Ben Chiarot,Trouba they dont score and provide little offense they are often slow, big and mean. and like the first goal where Cole just got beat in a foot race off the rush,shit like this is gonna happen, but when given the chance to setup in the Dzone they are your best players on the ice...

 

the other option than playing these two players is playing Juulsen more minutes... he is the only other RD, clearly he is not trusted and for a lesser extent zadorov/cole the same.

 

Cole is the #6 damn right now and the most likely one to come out when Soucy is back.

[Boudrias]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Know you're responding to @tas , but that's a good point.     Do feel it's a valid thing to settle things down.    And that like tas said, it's about the process or system.    Kuzmenko is becoming a distraction.   Tochett has earned more then enough, to not question his process on whatever it is exactly they (coaching staff) are working on with him. 

 

As for top tier, yes he's done it once.   Wasn't a goal scorer in the KHL.   And wasn't really doing it during our hot start either, despite having the same opportunities he had with Bruce and Tochett last year.     A regression in shooting percentage was anticipated.   Top tier would be 35 plus year after year.    EP is just getting into that realm.     There are a lot of guys, who have one off years as well, and a lot of blue chippers who have off years too.    

 

This year has some similarities to 94 and 2011.   In 94 we played almost entire year with a major distraction.   Our "top tier", second line center, 6'3" Nedved,  was sitting out wanting the third contract money after one good season.  

 

2011, because like back then, we approached the Christmas break at or near top of the league, tops in goals for, tops in goals against etc.   

 

It's an interesting duality.    If we weren't doing as well, i'd be very concerned about Kuzmenko too.   Sure was concerned about Nedved back then.   It was very obvious, he had loads of potential.    Difference is, Kuzmenko is already who he is.   A skilled player, for sure, but is he actually top tier?  

 

Pretty sure he plays against SJ, because Tochett won't be worried about him not playing the system as much.   And the PP could use a boost.    It's a nice problem to have.  If Tochett, Foote, Gonchar and the Sedins can mould him into more of a two-way player, who's 25/25, there is nothing wrong with that.   Brock and Garland have added massive value to this teams fortunes buying into the system.    Can't mess with those lines.   EP for sure deserves a better wing mate and hopefully that's Kuzmenko or if not, Allvin can create a trade that works for all involved. 

Canucks didn't play well enough in the neutral zone to carry the game. That said it was one of the best games I've watched this season. Playoff tone!!!

Canucks need Kuz if he can remake his game. Fans talk about his explosiveness, shot etc. As you pointed out earlier his resume from the KHL did not suggest a 

39 goal season. I can clearly see why RT plays PDG. Canucks are making playoffs and PDG plays a very solid 200' game. RT can throw him out on the 4th line and know there will be responsible shutdown play. PDG can move up the line if needed and can PK. Not that long ago the Canucks had 4 players in the top 10 scoring. Koz would be a nice bonus if he re-establishes himself. Based on what the brain trust thinks they need and what is available Kuzmenko might be gone. If he scores a hatty against SJ I have to reconsider.  

[tas]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

Cole is the #6 damn right now and the most likely one to come out when Soucy is back.

I bet you next year's salary that there is no universe where cole is scratched before juulsen, regardless of recent results.