Discussion: Kuzmenko Plight; as Jannik sees it........

[MeanSeanBean]

44 minutes ago, Neerlynormal said:

I feel privileged here, having someone that knows what is going on behind the scenes.

What else do you know that no-one else has heard of?

Ah yes, the ol' "my uncle works for Nintendo". I see you.

[Drakrami]

26 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Kuzmeko has 2 hits in 29 games played this year, lowest on the team. To put that in perspective, Karlsson and Hirose round out the bottom 3 and both have 3 hits in 3 games played.

I think hes here to score goals though. This is like asking why Nylander or Patrick Kane isn't throwing hits. 

[Goose]

14 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Could you? Boeser finished last year, which was admittedly a horrible year for him with 32 blocks and 49 hits. Kuzmeko is currently on pace for about 16 blocks and 5 hits. These aren't even remotely comparable stats, and thats Boeser at his all time low. Even if we just look at stats that could help tell the tale of engagement and putting points aside, Boeser at his all time low wasn't even in the same realm as Kuzmeko this year.

 

The point was that Boeser upped his game and is much more involved when on the ice.  Im not concerned about hits or blocks and I doubt RT is either-it’s more about moving his feet and creating pressure.  

[Neerlynormal]

34 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Oh many many things. You're reading comprehension is not strong though. I never said I knew things behind the scenes (I just said Hansen didn't either) but you got lucky because I just happen to be like the number 1 insider for the team.

 

Garland loves beets, which is a little weird. Joshua is considering re-painting his place a mauve and feature wall in an off green color. Also a bit weird. Gonchar prefers not to wear gonch ... now that one is a little personal so I'll stop there.

 

Also, if you use common sense, which doesn't require my super fantastic insider info, you can infer a couple things. Namely, Hansen is not part of the team, therefore he doesn't know the exact directions and practices that Rick Tocchet has been working on with Kuzmenko. So he doesn't really know if RT is being ultra harsh in regards to zero mistake hockey, or if Kuzmenko is just simply not even attempting to do what is asked of him, to the point he's being benched. One thing I do know though is that his pre-season looked like a joke and he doesn't appear to be dialed in like the rest of the squad.

So you're inferring that Hansen has no idea of how Kuzmenko prepared for this season, unlike us at CFF. I didn't know that. 

 

I guess I'll have to agree with you then...

 

This Hansen character really needs to educate himself on the NHL game, if he wants to give informed opinions. These eastern media types that know nothing about Vancouver... Sheesh! I bet he never even played junior  

[Neerlynormal]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I don't know how a professional hockey player doesn't accidentally get more then 1 hit every 15 games... It's honestly impressive, in a depressing way, how he's been able to avoid any contact at all this season.

Yeah, apparently there's this guy called Panarin or something with even fewer hits than Kuzmenko lol.

 

Maybe we could swap these two unengaged players? Of course, since Kuzmenko hits more, we could maybe get a prospect or a draft pick too!!! At the least!

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

I think hes here to score goals though. This is like asking why Nylander or Patrick Kane isn't throwing hits. 

Will has 15 hits in 30 games this year according to https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/how-many-hits-does-william-nylander-have

and Kane had    13  last year in 73 games- with a screwed up hip.

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Yeah, not every skilled winger ought to be treated like he's fit to become a two-way winger.  As great as it would be, expecting a skilled Russian to fit a heavy forechecking system that doesn't let him maximize his individual skillset isn't a recipe for success.

See Steve Yzerman before and after Scotty Bowman took over.

All it takes is commitment. Willingness to try. He doesn't have to hit everything that moves.

Just use body position, active sticks, try to dodge players and avoid hits.

It won't happen in one game. But if he keeps working at it, he will be just fine.

Even just being aggressive getting after the puck.

Look at Garland. He's bought in, and playing like a fiend.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I usually agree with Jannick quite a bit but he really doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes in this case.

 

First off, Kuzmenko approached the off-season as a total joke, parading around in Bali, training by boxing and playing around in twitter like some teenage girl trying to be famous. He certainly deserves to be in the doghouse imo. He's lazy, floats around, and doesn't put in the effort the rest of the team does. This is all on him to decide if he wants to be a difference maker in the NHL or just cruise around scoring goals on losing hockey teams.

 

Kuzmenko doesn't have a Twitter account, so not sure what this bs statement is about...

[Elias Pettersson]

27 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

See Steve Yzerman before and after Scotty Bowman took over.

All it takes is commitment. Willingness to try. He doesn't have to hit everything that moves.

Just use body position, active sticks, try to dodge players and avoid hits.

It won't happen in one game. But if he keeps working at it, he will be just fine.

Even just being aggressive getting after the puck.

Look at Garland. He's bought in, and playing like a fiend.

 

 

Scotty Bowman didn't coach Yzerman until his 10th year in the NHL.  Not sure that is an equal comparison.  Plus, Yzerman was a centre not a winger.  Centres are usually more defensively repsonsible than a winger, that is why they are a centre.  In Russia, the centre is the one who takes full responsibilty for defensive zone coverage, that is why most Russian wingers don't know how to forecheck or backcheck, while most Russian centres are very good defensively...

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Will has 15 hits in 30 games this year according to https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/how-many-hits-does-william-nylander-have

and Kane had    13  last year in 73 games- with a screwed up hip.

 

Artemi Panarin, who is a great comparable to Kuzmenko, has one hit this year...

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Artemi Panarin, who is a great comparable to Kuzmenko, has one hit this year...

-

17 goals 26 assists for 43 points in 30 games  for Panarin- I don't think he is that great a comparison.

[Ghostsof1915]

25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Scotty Bowman didn't coach Yzerman until his 10th year in the NHL.  Not sure that is an equal comparison.  Plus, Yzerman was a centre not a winger.  Centres are usually more defensively repsonsible than a winger, that is why they are a centre.  In Russia, the centre is the one who takes full responsibilty for defensive zone coverage, that is why most Russian wingers don't know how to forecheck or backcheck, while most Russian centres are very good defensively...

"When Scotty Bowman took over as head coach in 1993, Yzerman initially chafed under Bowman's stern coaching style. Bowman, for his part, felt that Yzerman was not concentrating enough on defence; Bowman had long expected his forwards to be good back-checkers as well. Relations between the two became so strained that at one point, the Red Wings seriously considered trading him to the Ottawa Senators.^[24] However, Yzerman gradually became a better defender and was considered one of the best two-way forwards in the history of the game."

 

Legends of Hockey-Spotlight-One on One with Steve Yzerman, November 5, 2010.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

18 minutes ago, Gurn said:

-

17 goals 26 assists for 43 points in 30 games  for Panarin- I don't think he is that great a comparison.

 

Not talking about stats, I am talking about the two players.  They are comparable in style and the fact they both came from Russia at a later stage in their careers.  Neither one hits or forechecks.  The coaches need to give Kuzmenko some leeway just like Jannik Hansen said.  He's not some bang and crash guy like Joshua who simply has to play harder.  They are asking Kuzmenko to literally change his entire game.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

"When Scotty Bowman took over as head coach in 1993, Yzerman initially chafed under Bowman's stern coaching style. Bowman, for his part, felt that Yzerman was not concentrating enough on defence; Bowman had long expected his forwards to be good back-checkers as well. Relations between the two became so strained that at one point, the Red Wings seriously considered trading him to the Ottawa Senators.^[24] However, Yzerman gradually became a better defender and was considered one of the best two-way forwards in the history of the game."

 

Legends of Hockey-Spotlight-One on One with Steve Yzerman, November 5, 2010.

 

 

 

Wayne Gretzky didn't have to back check and won 4 cups.  Same with Lemieux who won 2 cups.  Not all centres need to be two-way Selke award winners.  Bowman was a hard ass just like Tocchet.  Glen Sather who is also a legend let his boys play.  You can win cups different ways.  Not every coach is a hard ass...

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Wayne Gretzky didn't have to back check and won 4 cups.  Same with Lemieux who won 2 cups.  Not all centres need to be two-way Selke award winners.  Bowman was a hard ass just like Tocchet.  Glen Sather who is also a legend let his boys play.  You can win cups different ways.  Not every coach is a hard ass...

He's a hard ass that has coached different teams to the Stanley Cup. Basically he knows what it takes to win. I'm not going to argue with someone with 9 Stanley Cup rings.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

I think hes here to score goals though. This is like asking why Nylander or Patrick Kane isn't throwing hits. 

Then he needs to score significantly more goals and be far more impactful offensively to make up for the fact he's litterally invisible when he's not creating offense. 

 

Also, Kane has as many hits as Kuzmeko this year in 20 less games.

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Tofu_Bud said:

 

The point was that Boeser upped his game and is much more involved when on the ice.  Im not concerned about hits or blocks and I doubt RT is either-it’s more about moving his feet and creating pressure.  

Completely disagree with you. It's entirely evident that Tocc does see how disengaged Kuzmeko is. Blocks and his are a sign your heads in the game, your playing for the team. If you can come up with stats to quantify Rick saying "Kuzmeko needs to forcheck, let's start with that's when asking how Kuzmeko can get back into the line up, that I'm all ears.

 

Kuzmeko has not only been entirely invisible, but he's been an actively hindering the team defensively this year. You can not do that when you aren't out scoring your negatives. 

[tas]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Kuzmenko doesn't have a Twitter account, so not sure what this bs statement is about...

instagram. semantics. 

 

I don't agree as aggressively as the guy you quoted, but I do think kuzmenko is getting a rude awakening about nhl fitness and effort requirements. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

He's a hard ass that has coached different teams to the Stanley Cup. Basically he knows what it takes to win. I'm not going to argue with someone with 9 Stanley Cup rings.

 

Sather won 5 Stanley Cups.  Who cares.  Also, a centre is supposed to be the best defensive player on the line.  So, in Bowman's defence, he wanted more from his centre.  Did Bowman also ask all of his wingers to do the same thing?  Slava Kozlov was a big part of those Detroit cup teams.  He was a dynamic Russian winger.  Was he a Selke award finalist?  Did he backcheck?

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Neerlynormal said:

Yeah, apparently there's this guy called Panarin or something with even fewer hits than Kuzmenko lol.

 

Maybe we could swap these two unengaged players? Of course, since Kuzmenko hits more, we could maybe get a prospect or a draft pick too!!! At the least!

Panarin outscores his defensive faults 10 fold. No one would be concerned with Kuzmeko if he was producing offensively at a rate similar to last year, let alone APs top of the league rate.  This is such a terrible comparison I can not tell if it's sarcastic or not. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[tas]

1 hour ago, Neerlynormal said:

So you're inferring that Hansen has no idea of how Kuzmenko prepared for this season, unlike us at CFF. I didn't know that. 

 

I guess I'll have to agree with you then...

 

This Hansen character really needs to educate himself on the NHL game, if he wants to give informed opinions. These eastern media types that know nothing about Vancouver... Sheesh! I bet he never even played junior  

you think jannik knows better than

 

tocchet

gonchar

foote

sedins

yeo

allvin

rutherford

milstein,who is far from shy about speaking out for his clients

and kuzmenko himself

 

?

 

oookie dokie. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

instagram. semantics. 

 

I don't agree as aggressively as the guy you quoted, but I do think kuzmenko is getting a rude awakening about nhl fitness and effort requirements. 

 

Petey also uses Instagram just as much as Kuzmenko, posting pictures of himself surfing, boating and laying on a beach.  Pretty normal stuff for a guy in his 20's.  

 

I would agree he is probably not fit.  He doesn't have the body type that screams fitness for an NHL player.  Boeser is the same way.  Boeser had years to finally figure it out.  This is Kuzy's 2nd year.  He's like a 20 year old kid in the NHL if you think about it.  Plus he barely spoke a word of English up until this year.

 

Lots of people making excuses for Boeser the last 5 years.  Not sure why Kuzmenko doesn't get the same slack as Boeser, being it's only his second year in the league...

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Panarin outscores his defensive faults 10 fold. No one would be concerned with Kuzmeko if he was producing offensively at a rate similar to last year, let alone APs top of the league rate.  This is such a terrible comparison I can not tell if it's sarcastic or not. 

 

Panarin has already bounced around the league and is on his 3rd team.  He was traded after his 3rd season.  I'm assuming the coaches weren't too happy with his defensive play either even though he put up points every season.  Kuzmenko will probably suffer the same fate until he is put in a position to succeed based on his skill set.  Trade him to Edmonton and he probably gets 50+ goals...

[RawkDrummer]

Skill is hard to unearth. We got lucky to get Kuz.

Team is doing well, so relax

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Wayne Gretzky didn't have to back check and won 4 cups.  Same with Lemieux who won 2 cups.  Not all centres need to be two-way Selke award winners.  Bowman was a hard ass just like Tocchet.  Glen Sather who is also a legend let his boys play.  You can win cups different ways.  Not every coach is a hard ass...

 

Gretzky actually played defence for awhile when he was a kid, to make it easier for to get more ice time (every minute of every game for quite awhile, I believe). It also helped him develop his otherworldly hockey IQ and level of anticipation at both ends of the ice.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Drive-By Body Pierce