[PGT] San Jose Sharks at Vancouver Canucks // December 23, 2023

[JamesB]

5 hours ago, Gurn said:

Petey is beginning to worry me.

Couple years back I was wondering if he was superstar level or 'merely' a star.

He picked up his game, and  I was pretty much convinced he was a superstar player.

Recently, I'm starting to wonder, again.

 

Without checking his game by game stats, first,- can anyone remember the last time Petey dominated a game?

 

edit to add- one positive about his lower level of play is it will result in a lower level of contract, making him more affordable, and helping keep the team stronger overall.

I have been thinking about the same thing. My initial gut reaction is that Petey is elite but not at the superstar level. Petey rarely "dominates" a game the way we see guys like McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov (or Miller or Hughes) seem to dominate games.

 

But Petey is "sneaky good" and does a lot of good things that are not obvious. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. He often just "happens" to be in the right place at the right time (which is actually a very important skill based on peripheral vision, anticipation, situational awareness, and quickness).

 

2. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat, Petey currently ranks 6th in the league, just ahead of Matthews, McDavid, and Eichel and just behind Barkov and Kucherov. (Hughes is 3td on that list.)

 

3. One important reason he is so high is the "penalties" component, which is just based on penalties drawn versus penalties taken. In the GAR stats that is actually very important given the importance of PP goals. Petey is always among the league leaders (currently 3rd)  in that stat but it is not we normally notice or pay much attention to.

 

4. Petey is also among the league leaders in takeaways vs. giveaways (currently 4th in the league). He is also good on the PK as well at 5-on-5 offensively and defensively and on the PP.

 

5. His faceoffs have improved and he is now about 50%. And of course he even makes hits and contributes (a bit) to the physical game. And he makes players around him better.

 

6. But in Evolving Hockey xGAR stat (based on expected goals rather than actual goes) he ranks a lot lower, although he still looks good. If the GAR stat exceeds the xGAR stat that is an indicator of better than average "luck", but it is also partly due to having a great shot and a high hockey IQ. 

 

7. In other advanced stat aggregators he is not as good as in GAR.  He ranks 26th in the league in the statcards average game score stat. 

 

My current opinion is that he is very good, but not quite as good as he looks in the Evolving Hockey GAR stat. So I would say he "elite"  but not quite a superstar. I think a cap hit of 11 million on a term of 4 or more years would be a good deal for the Canucks but I would be reluctant to go to 12.

 

 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I have been thinking about the same thing. My initial gut reaction is that Petey is elite but not at the superstar level. Petey rarely "dominates" a game the way we see guys like McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov (or Miller or Hughes) seem to dominate games.

 

But Petey is "sneaky good" and does a lot of good things that are not obvious. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. He often just "happens" to be in the right place at the right time (which is actually a very important skill based on peripheral vision, anticipation, situational awareness, and quickness).

 

2. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat, Petey currently ranks 6th in the league, just ahead of Matthews, McDavid, and Eichel and just behind Barkov and Kucherov. (Hughes is 3td on that list.)

 

3. One important reason he is so high is the "penalties" component, which is just based on penalties drawn versus penalties taken. In the GAR stats that is actually very important given the importance of PP goals. Petey is always among the league leaders (currently 3rd)  in that stat but it is not we normally notice or pay much attention to.

 

4. Petey is also among the league leaders in takeaways vs. giveaways (currently 4th in the league). He is also good on the PK as well at 5-on-5 offensively and defensively and on the PP.

 

5. His faceoffs have improved and he is now about 50%. And of course he even makes hits and contributes (a bit) to the physical game. And he makes players around him better.

 

6. But in Evolving Hockey xGAR stat (based on expected goals rather than actual goes) he ranks a lot lower, although he still looks good. If the GAR stat exceeds the xGAR stat that is an indicator of better than average "luck", but it is also partly due to having a great shot and a high hockey IQ. 

 

7. In other advanced stat aggregators he is not as good as in GAR.  He ranks 26th in the league in the statcards average game score stat. 

 

My current opinion is that he is very good, but not quite as good as he looks in the Evolving Hockey GAR stat. So I would say he "elite"  but not quite a superstar. I think a cap hit of 11 million on a term of 4 or more years would be a good deal for the Canucks but I would be reluctant to go to 12.

 

 

Let's remember, he's still 25.

[Barnstorm]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:29 PM, Alflives said:

Alf can admit when his empties were wrong. Garland is not a cheap plastic gnome. He’s 100% concrete. He’s been driving our third line. He’s been very good. With him driving the third line we have three legit scoring lines. Each one is good enough to carry the offence if the other two aren’t going. I’m thinking Garden Gnome (of the concrete variety) ain’t going anywhere, unless it’s a big time offer. 

 

On 12/17/2023 at 6:54 PM, Barnstorm said:

If you really do recognize Garland’s value and ability perhaps you’ll give him the respect of stopping the use all the disrespectful names and analogies.
 

Surely you wouldn’t talk that way if you had an opportunity to thank him in person for his efforts and success. 

 

On 12/17/2023 at 7:10 PM, Alflives said:

Alf would present Garland with a concrete empty for his garden! 

 

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

In Alfs defence he did recently say he was wrong about Garland

 

He said something along the lines that he’s one of those “solid concrete” garden gnomes, not those cheap plastic ones…or something along those lines lol

He suddenly referred to him as Garland and offered to give him a concrete empty. 

[Grandmaster]

14 hours ago, Attila Umbrus said:

 

Yeah, I loved Kuzy and his 2 goals...but after that it's like he took the rest of the game off. He was -2 because their line got scored on 4 times I believe...so as nice as the 2 goals are if you're gonna give up 4 it's not going to look great. The 3rd goal against he literally didn't even bother to check his guy or his stick and boom easy goal for SJ...I love this guy and his first period was great. But after that it felt like, well I scored 2, i'm good. 

 

I love this player but he is frustrating to watch away from the puck.

The guy will pick it up defensively. Definitely a slow learner. I don’t doubt that he is trying. Still happy for him scoring those 2 goals. Was nice to see

[Ghostsof1915]

7 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I have been thinking about the same thing. My initial gut reaction is that Petey is elite but not at the superstar level. Petey rarely "dominates" a game the way we see guys like McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov (or Miller or Hughes) seem to dominate games.

 

But Petey is "sneaky good" and does a lot of good things that are not obvious. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. He often just "happens" to be in the right place at the right time (which is actually a very important skill based on peripheral vision, anticipation, situational awareness, and quickness).

 

2. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat, Petey currently ranks 6th in the league, just ahead of Matthews, McDavid, and Eichel and just behind Barkov and Kucherov. (Hughes is 3td on that list.)

 

3. One important reason he is so high is the "penalties" component, which is just based on penalties drawn versus penalties taken. In the GAR stats that is actually very important given the importance of PP goals. Petey is always among the league leaders (currently 3rd)  in that stat but it is not we normally notice or pay much attention to.

 

4. Petey is also among the league leaders in takeaways vs. giveaways (currently 4th in the league). He is also good on the PK as well at 5-on-5 offensively and defensively and on the PP.

 

5. His faceoffs have improved and he is now about 50%. And of course he even makes hits and contributes (a bit) to the physical game. And he makes players around him better.

 

6. But in Evolving Hockey xGAR stat (based on expected goals rather than actual goes) he ranks a lot lower, although he still looks good. If the GAR stat exceeds the xGAR stat that is an indicator of better than average "luck", but it is also partly due to having a great shot and a high hockey IQ. 

 

7. In other advanced stat aggregators he is not as good as in GAR.  He ranks 26th in the league in the statcards average game score stat. 

 

My current opinion is that he is very good, but not quite as good as he looks in the Evolving Hockey GAR stat. So I would say he "elite"  but not quite a superstar. I think a cap hit of 11 million on a term of 4 or more years would be a good deal for the Canucks but I would be reluctant to go to 12.

 

 

 

The issue isn't so much what he's bringing to the table. It's what he will bring on a new contract and what that contract looks like. At least on CFF I've seen as low at $9 million per and $12 Million per. I think the question is does Petey play at a level that would justify over $10 million per season? That is the question both we and Management are struggling with.

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Let's remember, he's still 25.

 

Exactly what I was just thinking. Just because he's not at a level of McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov right now doesn't mean he won't get to that higher level as he matures. His best days are still to come imo.

[Tusk]

1 hour ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Hope he doesn't read the forum when he has the time, lol. Seriously; I think Pettersson is just fine. Mentally and now physically (was something not right at the

start.) Wrong line-mates though.  Hell, he has to be the Defensive one on the line. I find it very doubtful the coach will break - up Miller and Boeser. He put Hoglander

with them; maybe that is someone who would work better with him as long as Kuzmenko is never, never put with Milleer and Boeser.  JT would not put up with the slow

to get back crap he does.

 

Kuzmenko is good on the rush and a good power play player.  He's not a defensive player and never will be. Question;  Assuming we look to be headed to

 the post season,  duh; Do we look to move him before the dead-line?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     well

 

 

 

 

hellls no

this is the team, this is the winner. Yeah kuz was a -3 or 4 but he gets the sneaky goals and will keep doing that if he is with petey.

our first line is Miller and Boeser and anyone else we put there. 

The best thing is we keep rolling different guys till the playoffs, that way when the injuries happen we just keep rolling.

I dont care if petey has a dry spell for the rest of the year, he will wake up in the playoffs.

[Gurn]

I will say, it feels weird to have concerns about a dude that is better than a point a game, but the salary cap world has changed the way the game has to be thought about.

[Grandmaster]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Exactly what I was just thinking. Just because he's not at a level of McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov right now doesn't mean he won't get to that higher level as he matures. His best days are still to come imo.

 

Yup, we forget he is still so young.
 

Didn’t take to around Petey’s current age for JT to blossom into another level.  It was 5 years ago when he first arrived and he catapulted himself at that age, having his best season to that date, meanwhile also steadily becoming even better year after year. 

[Tusk]

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I still think Petey needs a power forward on his wing. One that will crash and bang to create space. Lafferty brought it for a few games but then fizzled out.

 

With our cap space I doubt we find anyone of a higher calibre to play with Petey. 
 

Internally we have Joshua, but that 2 on 1 breakaway with him and Petey in dallas makes me think no lol

 

I keep coming back to Podz. He’s the only one that can affordably fit that bill. However they seem hell bent on leaving him on the farm for now.

 

Anyways my vote is Podz, he has looked great on the farm. I think we will see him on the big club around the trade dead line as it seems management may make one more tweak before a playoff run. 

 

 

I hope no one sees podz before the playoffs. 

Thats the tiime to bring him up, keep some messy lines that actually still win games for rest of year.

I think with the contract stuff petey will be off the rest of the year.

I think the Cap issues we have make it difficult to see what we can do in 3 years, in 4 years. But I think we can just do it this year. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

5 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

 

Yup, we forget he is still so young.
 

Didn’t take to around Petey’s current age for JT to blossom into another level.  It was 5 years ago when he first arrived and he catapulted himself at that age, having his best season to that date, meanwhile also steadily becoming even better year after year. 

 

Exactly. That's why I'm not into ragging on him endlessly. Criticism when he doesn't play well, sure, absolutely, but ...

 

He's still figuring stuff out, namely his consistency and putting it all together under a new system and culture. He's going to be even better when it all comes together. A more mature, experienced Petey at 28, 29, 30 will be a much different player. If he keeps the next contract short, 4 years, he could really cash in when he's at his very best.

[John.Tallhouse]

Wild 

 

[Tusk]

36 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I have been thinking about the same thing. My initial gut reaction is that Petey is elite but not at the superstar level. Petey rarely "dominates" a game the way we see guys like McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, or Kucherov (or Miller or Hughes) seem to dominate games.

 

But Petey is "sneaky good" and does a lot of good things that are not obvious. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. He often just "happens" to be in the right place at the right time (which is actually a very important skill based on peripheral vision, anticipation, situational awareness, and quickness).

 

2. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat, Petey currently ranks 6th in the league, just ahead of Matthews, McDavid, and Eichel and just behind Barkov and Kucherov. (Hughes is 3td on that list.)

 

3. One important reason he is so high is the "penalties" component, which is just based on penalties drawn versus penalties taken. In the GAR stats that is actually very important given the importance of PP goals. Petey is always among the league leaders (currently 3rd)  in that stat but it is not we normally notice or pay much attention to.

 

4. Petey is also among the league leaders in takeaways vs. giveaways (currently 4th in the league). He is also good on the PK as well at 5-on-5 offensively and defensively and on the PP.

 

5. His faceoffs have improved and he is now about 50%. And of course he even makes hits and contributes (a bit) to the physical game. And he makes players around him better.

 

6. But in Evolving Hockey xGAR stat (based on expected goals rather than actual goes) he ranks a lot lower, although he still looks good. If the GAR stat exceeds the xGAR stat that is an indicator of better than average "luck", but it is also partly due to having a great shot and a high hockey IQ. 

 

7. In other advanced stat aggregators he is not as good as in GAR.  He ranks 26th in the league in the statcards average game score stat. 

 

My current opinion is that he is very good, but not quite as good as he looks in the Evolving Hockey GAR stat. So I would say he "elite"  but not quite a superstar. I think a cap hit of 11 million on a term of 4 or more years would be a good deal for the Canucks but I would be reluctant to go to 12.

 

 

I am thinking Petey is not worth more than JT or even Mr Horvat, Boeser..... I mean I love him but we only have limited funds. I think anything over 8.5 breaks our bank for the next 4 years.

Cant we just make him the highest paid guy for a few years? like $5 bucks more than JTM?

 

 

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Exactly. That's why I'm not into ragging on him endlessly. Criticism when he doesn't play well, sure, absolutely, but ...

 

He's still figuring stuff out, namely his consistency and putting it all together under a new system and culture. He's going to be even better when it all comes together. A more mature, experienced Petey at 28, 29, 30 will be a much different player. If he keeps the next contract short, 4 years, he could really cash in when he's at his very best.

People ragging Petey. I mean it’s just sad. We have a history of running players out of town.

[Ghostsof1915]

4 minutes ago, John.Tallhouse said:

Wild 

 

Hence why Detroit has the octopus to represent the 8 games they need to win the Cup in the Original 6 era.

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Devron said:

People ragging Petey. I mean it’s just sad. We have a history of running players out of town.

We are not talking about Gretzki going to LA.... Its just Petey. He knows we love him, and we know he loves us. The contract should be just real and support us being this good next year, year after ect.

[EdgarM]

15 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I will say, it feels weird to have concerns about a dude that is better than a point a game, but the salary cap world has changed the way the game has to be thought about.

Exactly, he is a point producer, no doubt, but we have many on the team who can get us goals both on the PP and 5 on 5. 

If we are to pay this guy the MOST out of everybody else, he must do more then just produce points. 

We need to get value for every penny we spend. Will we get that with Petey? 

Take Miller for example, we are getting way more then just points out of him. Hughes? the same thing. 

We cannot be like Toronto and Edmonton and pay them what ever they want because they produce points.

Its like the old saying" drive for show putt for doe". Pretty looks great in the regular season but playing like the Blueger line is what is going to get it done in the playoffs.

[Tusk]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

It all makes sense now.

 

Tusk is Jim Benning! Merry Christmas Jim!

hey this is not a place for evil talking. you can call me grinch or something and we are good.

[EdgarM]

26 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

 

Yup, we forget he is still so young.
 

Didn’t take to around Petey’s current age for JT to blossom into another level.  It was 5 years ago when he first arrived and he catapulted himself at that age, having his best season to that date, meanwhile also steadily becoming even better year after year. 

FYI, Hughes is 24. 

[Tusk]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Exactly, he is a point producer, no doubt, but we have many on the team who can get us goals both on the PP and 5 on 5. 

If we are to pay this guy the MOST out of everybody else, he must do more then just produce points. 

We need to get value for every penny we spend. Will we get that with Petey? 

Take Miller for example, we are getting way more then just points out of him. Hughes? the same thing. 

We cannot be like Toronto and Edmonton and pay them what ever they want because they produce points.

Its like the old saying" drive for show putt for doe". Pretty looks great in the regular season but playing like the Blueger line is what is going to get it done in the playoffs.

This is very well said.

I dont even know why we are calling the blue jay garly the 3rd line

[Dr. Crossbar]

32 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

 

Yup, we forget he is still so young.
 

Didn’t take to around Petey’s current age for JT to blossom into another level.  It was 5 years ago when he first arrived and he catapulted himself at that age, having his best season to that date, meanwhile also steadily becoming even better year after year. 

 

And just to add ... you're exactly right about Miller. He's completely into his own at the right time in our window. 

 

His contract is looking great now. 

[Ghostsof1915]

23 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I will say, it feels weird to have concerns about a dude that is better than a point a game, but the salary cap world has changed the way the game has to be thought about.

I agree, but Petey does look distracted, or heaven forbid, hurt. He's amazing, but he's actually shown stretches where he's arguably the best forward in the game.

I guess it really hard to maintain that level. Petey is going to be paid, regardless. I guess the hope it's a dollar figure that allows Vancouver to be competitive and Petey and his camp will accept. I hope he's not distracted by the contract talks.

 

[John.Tallhouse]

 

[Rip The Mesh]

[Dr. Crossbar]

23 minutes ago, Devron said:

People ragging Petey. I mean it’s just sad. We have a history of running players out of town.

 

We do ... but now we're #1 in the league so there is that appeal to sticking around.