The God Thread

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Foamys Ghost said:

We're pretty sure they weren't written by their eponymous apostles because the apostles didn't speak or write Koine Greek, which is the original language in which the gospels were written.  There are entire books written by historians on this subject if you'd like to know more.

So we are “pretty sure”. That’s certainly not conclusive. And again I don’t think the Gospels prove there is a God

[Foamys Ghost]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Bible, the Quran and other literature clearly state that God exists. So now it’s on you to prove these books are fake…

Neither of these are scientific nor historic tomes.  They contain things in them that didn't happen, for example the great flood in the bible or the prophet flying to the heavens on a winged horse.  They are a collection of stories from stone age to iron age people that are not direct histories.  They have some historic context, such as Egypt and Babylon, however much of it has been shown to be historically inaccurate.  It is suspect at best as a primary source.

 

It would be like saying a fantasy novel is proof that dragons and hobbits exist.  A book in and of itself is not proof since much of it can be simply imagined. 

 

Instead let us examine the empirical facts: there are none that support the existence of a deity - any deity.  Man has imagined (created) thousands of deities.  If there is one, which one is the true god?  Where does he live?

[Foamys Ghost]

Just now, Alflives said:

So we are “pretty sure”. That’s certainly not conclusive. And again I don’t think the Gospels prove there is a God

I'm a scientist.  To me, nothing is absolute.  I keep an open mind that we might find more data to improve our knowledge of the history of the Bible.  Here are some other things I'm pretty sure of:

- the earth orbits the sun (or more precisely, the earth and sun orbit a common point somewhere within the sun itself).

- we landed on the moon

- the earth is an oblate spheroid, not a disc.

 

That the gospels were written as I stated is the accepted answer as far as biblical historians can tell.

[Alflives]

Just now, Foamys Ghost said:

I'm a scientist.  To me, nothing is absolute.  I keep an open mind that we might find more data to improve our knowledge of the history of the Bible.  Here are some other things I'm pretty sure of:

- the earth orbits the sun (or more precisely, the earth and sun orbit a common point somewhere within the sun itself).

- we landed on the moon

- the earth is an oblate spheroid, not a disc.

 

That the gospels were written as I stated is the accepted answer as far as biblical historians can tell.

Your choice to believe the Gospels or not. It’s clear their being original words of the four persons said to have written them are debatable. I don’t see how they’re being original or not has to do with God’s existence. 

[Foamys Ghost]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Sex prior to marriage is condemned by the church.  So yeah, those things would also be condemned.  But I'm guessing if it was a choice to use a condom or birth control or have an abortion and kill the fetus and the soul I'd go with the first option...

Even as someone not convinced that God exists, I think that is a better option.  That said it is not my place to tell a woman what to do with her body.  I believe in educating people about birth control as the primary method to prevent unwanted pregnancy.  Some conservative religious groups oppose such education.

[Foamys Ghost]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Your choice to believe the Gospels or not. It’s clear their being original words of the four persons said to have written them are debatable. I don’t see how they’re being original or not has to do with God’s existence. 

Many Christians point to the gospels as proof of God's existence.  Its reliability is reduced due to being second or third hand information.

[PeteyBOI]

8 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It's virtually impossible to prove something doesn't exist.

 

I can't "prove" that centaurs don't exist, but the absence of such proof doesn't "prove" that they do exist. This is what he has been claiming. He has also been claiming the number of people that believe in God is further proof of his existence. Another incorrect assertion.

 

I get the desire to defend your brother in arms, as it were, but if the two of you were just saying that you believe despite the lack of proof, then we'd not be having this discussion and Petey and I would not be having our debate.

 

But this is a discussion forum. When someone makes a claim that is blatantly false....and considering the claim infers that my status as a non-believer makes me "wrong", then I will usually engage. I'm sorry if it looks like the two of you are being ganged up on, but that's what happens when your opinion is not shared by the majority. I experienced the same thing last season at the Trade Deadline, when I wanted to tank and get a shot a Bedard.

well i dont believe its blatantly false... i believe in god... my interpretation is much different and the most similar definition is how the cree describe the creator... I was not religious and never was despite encouragement from my family... but i have been brought to church many times usually because i was not allowed to be left alone home as a child... i have never read the bible, i have only read the kids bible. my father and his wife are still encouraging me to join the church with every conversation, i always say ill think about it... and i do for maybe 1 second.. the closest thing i ever came to church was when i was younger i joined AA for a few years but i never went through with whole i am powerless to my temptation, because i knew deep down i wasn't... today i drink very little... but i have beer in my fridge and a bottle of whisky in my cupboard... and i mostly give away the beer (skunky beer is gross) because i have no need to feel inebriated when i am home alone... but sometimes i will go out with friends and will join in festivities, but i recognize that when drinking i show poor judgement so i will often head home early... 

 

so this pretty much shows i can choose my own path, my own consequences and choose how i want to be viewed in the eyes of others... and i dont need the text to choose how to run my life... i believe in god, but am skeptical of whats written in the bible, i have my own theories of what happened in the past and i like to believe they are somewhat true, using just logical thinking... does the bible have any true events that happened in history? i don't know and i don't really care, i study my own methods mostly modern psychology to help understand why people make the decisions they do, including myself... why? because i have not always been making good decisions and in fact some really stoopid ones...(but armed with knowledge i can forgive myself and others)

 

I have decided how best to run my life and is based on that everyone starts with my respect and even when i get slighted i still will  respect you, but my emotions might get clouded and i may sound off... i believe in second and even third chances, humility helps. i don't demand apologies or even want them alot of times, but if someone apologizes i will be grateful... apologizing is one of the hardest thing people can do... I believe in being open minded... and i belive the catholic/christian church community has very good intentions, my limited experiences were all positive, this doesnt prove anything but shows my experience was good... i made some friends from the community and visit them every once in a while and share a laugh and a coke.. so when people bash me over the internet idk, i have a firm belief in my morals, but i will often choose to defend the underdog, even if their views dont fully encompass mine, i choose to only listen if they can offer me advice that's genuine, i can tell pretty quickly when their full of shit.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Foamys Ghost said:

I'm a scientist.  To me, nothing is absolute.  I keep an open mind that we might find more data to improve our knowledge of the history of the Bible.  Here are some other things I'm pretty sure of:

- the earth orbits the sun (or more precisely, the earth and sun orbit a common point somewhere within the sun itself).

- we landed on the moon

- the earth is an oblate spheroid, not a disc.

 

That the gospels were written as I stated is the accepted answer as far as biblical historians can tell.

IMHAO whether people believe in the Gospels as original or not doesn’t prove God exists. It’s 100% opinion because God’s existence cannot be proved. 

[Foamys Ghost]

5 hours ago, Dankmemes187 said:

i missed this one ezpz...

 

your argument implies:

1. If A, then B.
2. B is true.(cancer is not evil i already explained this)
3. Therefore, A must be true.

In the initial argument:

1. If God exists, then God created cancer.
2. Cancer is considered evil.
3. Therefore, God must not exist.

This argument commits the fallacy of affirming the consequent because it assumes that if a certain consequence (cancer being evil) is true, then the initial condition (God exists) must also be true. However, this does not logically follow. (A = B and B = C) does not necessarily mean that A equals C.

 

Try not to use math too much when making arguments as the relationships between concepts can be intricate and not always straightforward. the problem of evil is a complex issue with various perspectives, and it's not as straightforward as equating murderers' actions with the nature of God.

 

 

ok it took me hours... and i needed help explaining

 

 

 

I don't have the time to take hours to craft my response, but kudos to you for making a good argument.

 

My point is that if God is all good and all powerful and is the creator of the universe, it is very hard to reconcile the fact that he created cancer or a great many other diseases, as well as natural disasters.  These all have a terrible result.  They create misery, suffering and pain.  How could a loving god create these things, especially (but not limited to) when they afflict the young?  This does not appear to be a good thing to create.  I see it as a significant problem to God being an all loving God, as many would postulate.  In fact, when considered along with the complete lack of empirical evidence it brings into doubt his very existence.

[Foamys Ghost]

Just now, Alflives said:

IMHAO whether people believe in the Gospels as original or not doesn’t prove God exists. It’s 100% opinion because God’s existence cannot be proved. 

This is true.  They are also welcome to believe in the flying spaghetti monster as long as they don't force their beliefs on others (for example by making laws about abortion based on their un-provable beliefs).

[RupertKBD]

2 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said:

well i dont believe its blatantly false... i believe in god...

 

 

That wasn't the part that was blatantly false. The existence of God is unproven, but it's not disproven either. (Again, I don't think this is possible)

 

What was blatantly false was his assertion that the existence of the Bible proves the existence of God. It supports the theory of the existence of God, but there is no proof in those pages.

[Alflives]

Just now, Foamys Ghost said:

This is true.  They are also welcome to believe in the flying spaghetti monster as long as they don't force their beliefs on others (for example by making laws about abortion based on their un-provable beliefs).

Yup. Or like on Mork and Mindy they can believe in the “Juice” (OJ Simpson). It’s opinion. We can argue until the cows cow home (and it’s fun, of course) but it’s all a matter of opinion. 

[Foamys Ghost]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

That wasn't the part that was blatantly false. The existence of God is unproven, but it's not disproven either. (Again, I don't think this is possible)

 

What was blatantly false was his assertion that the existence of the Bible proves the existence of God. It supports the theory of the existence of God, but there is no proof in those pages.

I came across a story in the bible recently where this guy wants to marry a princess so he asks the king if he can marry her.  The king says you need to go and collect 100 foreskins as a dowry.  This guy is a go getter so he and his men go and kill 200 men with foreskins, cut them off and bring them in a bag to the king.  The make sure the king counts them all (serves him right for assigning such a bizarre task).  The guy's name is David.

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Foamys Ghost said:

I came across a story in the bible recently where this guy wants to marry a princess so he asks the king if he can marry her.  The king says you need to go and collect 100 foreskins as a dowry.  This guy is a go getter so he and his men go and kill 200 men with foreskins, cut them off and bring them in a bag to the king.  The make sure the king counts them all (serves him right for assigning such a bizarre task).  The guy's name is David.

 

Awww.....

 

I was so sure there was going to be a punch line in there.....

[PeteyBOI]

4 minutes ago, Foamys Ghost said:

I don't have the time to take hours to craft my response, but kudos to you for making a good argument.

 

My point is that if God is all good and all powerful and is the creator of the universe, it is very hard to reconcile the fact that he created cancer or a great many other diseases, as well as natural disasters.  These all have a terrible result.  They create misery, suffering and pain.  How could a loving god create these things, especially (but not limited to) when they afflict the young?  This does not appear to be a good thing to create.  I see it as a significant problem to God being an all loving God, as many would postulate.  In fact, when considered along with the complete lack of empirical evidence it brings into doubt his very existence.

i cant really respond to this although i disagree with some of what you say and agree with alot of it... but the major thing is im not convinced that "God" is human form and when i experienced god or a spirit in my life it was through intense and sudden emotion changes and clarity of mind while alone and pleading for help.l.. but i have bi-polar so it could just be a mood change caused by parts of my brain misfiring due to chemical imbalance from the stress i was under... which is why i think god as many people experience is a part of our built in instincts, that kick in when needed most... it fits my narrative and helps me believe the things i realized in the moment hold meaning

[cripplereh]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So we are “pretty sure”. That’s certainly not conclusive. And again I don’t think the Gospels prove there is a God

Well Alf it has been proven the word God means alien.

 

Thousands of years before book were wrote stone drawings of an alien was referred to as God.

 

That has been proven around the world.

[PeteyBOI]

26 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

That wasn't the part that was blatantly false. The existence of God is unproven, but it's not disproven either. (Again, I don't think this is possible)

 

What was blatantly false was his assertion that the existence of the Bible proves the existence of God. It supports the theory of the existence of God, but there is no proof in those pages.

i think people actually do experience something, and if you dont experience or haven't yet you are lucky, at least if you experienced it the way i have... some people talk about divine intervention... meh... ( one time during a manic phase i was driving to edmonton, it was really bad, the most impacted part of the brain is risk management, anyways as i was driving to the hospital (shows my current judgement at the time driving 400 kms to the hospital) i merged onto the highway and just expected my turbo would kick in, but it failed and i didnt really shoulder check until i was already entering the highway but a semi was there barreling down the freeway, im pretty sure if my turbom kicked in they would have smushed me... very convenient time for the turbo to not kick in, but it turned out that the turbo had nothing wrong with it, it just didnt spool up. is that god stepping to make sure my soul gets the chance to fufill its journey or is it just normal ford behaviour and my dealer is too cheap to fix or find the issue?

[Ilunga]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:38 AM, MeanSeanBean said:

I believe in something. Creator, nature, the universe, god, satan, mother nature, space dust... I don't know what it is. 

 

Here's my question to those who believe in 'god'. Is your god the only God, or do you accept that almost every group of people have separately believed in some sort of Creator? That's the thing I can't wrap my head around. How is your book, your god, the right answer to the point where the majority of wars and atrocities against groups of people have been in the name of said god.

 I don't understand the nuances of religion, but how can god be correct if his disciples did their best to completely eliminate our Indigenous people, for example. That doesn't seem right, to me.

You asked me to directly answer the questions you asked in this post.

 

As has been pointed out to you by several people now, only 121 of the 1,763 wars had religion as their primary cause.

So no religion is not the cause of the majority of wars and atrocities against people.

 

God and his disciples completely eliminated indigenous Canadians ?

As of 2021 there were 1.8 million indigenous Canadians.

The indigenous population actually grew by 9.4 percent between 2016 - 2021.

 

Have you ever read the collection of Allegories that is called the bible.

If you have you will realise that the people who do what we define as bad things aren't following the meanings of those allegories. 

 

If you have studied comparative religion you would know that the big religions are much the same.

They carry the same common themes.

So in reality Monotheism is really the belief in the same same god.

[RupertKBD]

Here you go boys...maybe you can explain why God would allow this poor child to experience this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/woman-tortured-stepdaughter-3-to-death-because-she-was-result-of-dad-s-affair/ar-AA1h7plc?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5450283187b54e75bb9c8066642b9aec&ei=19

 

I'm only posting the link, because it's absolutely horrific.

[Inkidu]

22 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

This right here is why people that think this way should never be anywhere near government making decisions for us in the now. They think this life is immaterial, because a better one is coming for them after because they "believe"

 

Jumping to conclusions is better? Making massive assumptions? 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inkidu

[PeteyBOI]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Here you go boys...maybe you can explain why God would allow this poor child to experience this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/woman-tortured-stepdaughter-3-to-death-because-she-was-result-of-dad-s-affair/ar-AA1h7plc?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5450283187b54e75bb9c8066642b9aec&ei=19

 

I'm only posting the link, because it's absolutely horrific.

i have already explained my reasoning for things, but they are not inclusive of all i might believe...another one is that maybe god if they are human form, just designed earth with basic life but had no intentions for the mutations, or maybe gods son was playing with his design and the reason he was sent to earth because he must experience the turmoil he created... do i believe any of this no... but i believe it more than god isnt real cause evil things exist...

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, cripplereh said:

Well Alf it has been proven the word God means alien.

I have an alien as jesus tattoo. 

 

true story

[AatuD2]

In 80s/90s kid that used to proclaim like everyone else how stupid religion is, I gotta say that there is a lot of virtues that have been lost in translation. 

 

Modern society brings a lot of virtue-signaling, but not that much substance. Maybe I've been living in East Van for way too long, it has a way of making you lose hope in humanity. 

[MeanSeanBean]

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

You asked me to directly answer the questions you asked in this post.

 

As has been pointed out to you by several people now, only 121 of the 1,763 wars had religion as their primary cause.

So no religion is not the cause of the majority of wars and atrocities against people.

 

God and his disciples completely eliminated indigenous Canadians ?

As of 2021 there were 1.8 million indigenous Canadians.

The indigenous population actually grew by 9.4 percent between 2016 - 2021.

 

Have you ever read the collection of Allegories that is called the bible.

If you have you will realise that the people who do what we define as bad things aren't following the meanings of those allegories. 

 

If you have studied comparative religion you would know that the big religions are much the same.

They carry the same common themes.

So in reality Monotheism is really the belief in the same same god.

Holy shit... lol.

 

We're good, we don't need to continue this one my friend.

[Playoff Beered]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That is a possibility. I could be open to that. However, a major problem with abortion is the fact that some women use it as a form of birth control, they have “many” abortions without regard for human life. They don’t see the fetus as human with a living soul inside of it. 
 

So then how do you explain the recklessness of these women who feel that they can do whatever they want with their bodies and don’t care how many abortions they have?  Is a Roman Catholic like myself supposed to be okay with that and just believe that is what all of those souls wanted?  
 

If a fetus dies while in the womb because the woman was in a car accident, or because she had a miscarriage, etc, then that is not a choice made by the woman. The choice was made by the soul to die that way and have the woman experience the pain. Souls can die in order to help other souls. This is not the case in an abortion. The soul that is in the womb is being forced to die, so it’s not really helping the woman experience anything. 

 

You said previously souls chose their life, so yes you are supposed to be OK with that. Last I checked the Roman Catholic Church does no believe in reincarnation, so you are no Roman Catholic. All you are doing is grabbing whatever you like and discarding what you don't, and then judging others under the banner of the Roman Catholic Church.