The God Thread

[Sharpshooter]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

" Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence "

 

Carl Sagan 

 

" If there is a lack of evidence of a presence of a thing, does not always conclude to the absence of that thing totally. 

 

 

However, positing a claim of the existence of something based on only belief/faith isn’t evidence that one should find sufficient to take the claim as evidence of existence. 

[Bob Long]

On 10/5/2023 at 4:12 AM, Alflives said:

Maybe it’s simply a question about faith for one to believe in God? Those who have faith believe. Those who don’t have faith need objective proof to believe. So two sides, as you say. 
I wonder how many adults switch groups? Those who have faith lose it and those without faith gain it? 

 

thats the central issue. If you have faith, you don't need proof. If people can leave it there, then there's no issue. 

[Salacious Crumb]

How many people given a terminal diagnosis have a sudden coming to Jesus moment?

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Salacious Crumb said:

How many people given a terminal diagnosis have a sudden coming to Jesus moment?

 

My Dad didn't

 

He said my particles will return to the universe.

Brave to the end. 

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

 

My Dad didn't

 

He said my particles will return to the universe.

Brave to the end. 

 

I, for one, will one day sacrifice my body as compost to the earth so that new life can be nourished!

Edited October 6, 2023 by The Lock

[Bob Long]

For the believers I have some serious questions: 1) Which god is the right one to follow, and why? 2) What proof can you provide?

[Optimist Prime]

[Ilunga]

11 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

However, positing a claim of the existence of something based on only belief/faith isn’t evidence that one should find sufficient to take the claim as evidence of existence. 

 

There is no however about it.

The statement speaks for itself.

I don't claim to believe in a creator.

 

I, like any good scientist, am keeping an open mind until I am presented with evidence that either proves or disproves there is some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

There is no however about it.

The statement speaks for itself.

I don't claim to believe in a creator.

 

I, like any good scientist, am keeping an open mind until I am presented with evidence that either proves or disproves there is some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

Morning bud.

 

What do you think about this whole burden of proof thingy?

 

Do you think there is any cred to the idea that since more people believe in god/the bible than not, then it can be taken as fact that god exists? and as such the onus is on the skeptical or non-believers to prove God doesnt exist?

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

How many people given a terminal diagnosis have a sudden coming to Jesus moment?

 

One persons " deal with god " 

 

https://www.curetoday.com/view/-i-struck-a-deal-with-god-a-cancer-survivor-s-story-on-finding-faith

 

Results of study how people with faith cope with cancer.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11793286/Religious-people-cope-better-with-cancer...unless-they-think-God-is-punishing-them.html

 

[Ilunga]

14 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Morning bud.

 

What do you think about this whole burden of proof thingy?

 

Do you think there is any cred to the idea that since more people believe in god/the bible than not, then it can be taken as fact that god exists? and as such the onus is on the skeptical or non-believers to prove God doesnt exist?

 

 

Good afternoon/ evening my friend.

 

The bible as we both know is a collection of allegories.

The themes of these allegories are common in most religious texts. 

 

Just because a majority of people believe something, that does not make what they believe factual.

For something to be factual evidence must be provided.

Conversely for something to be false/ untrue, evidence must be provided. 

 

As Carl Sagan noted, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

As for who the onus is on, the person who makes any claim, be that a being does exist, or does not exist. 

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

Good afternoon/ evening my friend.

 

The bible as we both know is a collection of allegories.

The themes of these allegories are common in most religious texts. 

 

Just because a majority of people believe something, that does not make what they believe factual.

For something to be factual evidence must be provided.

Conversely for something to be false/ untrue, evidence must be provided. 

 

As Carl Sagan noted, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

As for who the onus is on, the person who makes any claim, be that a being does exist, or does not exist. 

 

 

This is a pretty good answer. 

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

There is no however about it.

The statement speaks for itself.

I don't claim to believe in a creator.

 

I, like any good scientist, am keeping an open mind until I am presented with evidence that either proves or disproves there is some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you keep an open mind to flying pink elephants too then. 
 

 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I hope you keep an open mind to flying pink elephants too then. 
 

 

Yup. I don’t get this opinion. That which cannot be proven to exist must be proven not to exist. By that logic all that cannot be proven must be accepted as possibly existing without evidence otherwise. Yet there can be no evidence to prove something that doesn’t exist actually does. Tooth faery. Santa. Easter Bunny. It’s a long list we will need evidence to disprove or they (therefore by default) might exist. 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I hope you keep an open mind to flying pink elephants too then. 
 

 

 

Really brother.

 

Do you have an argument/ statement of fact that counters Carl's statement ?

 

[Sharpshooter]

4 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Really brother.

 

Do you have an argument/ statement of fact that counters Carl's statement ?

 

My statement speaks for itself. 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. I don’t get this opinion. That which cannot be proven to exist must be proven not to exist. By that logic all that cannot be proven must be accepted as possibly existing without evidence otherwise. Yet there can be no evidence to prove something that doesn’t exist actually does. Tooth faery. Santa. Easter Bunny. It’s a long list we will need evidence to disprove or they (therefore by default) might exist. 

 

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

 

For the third time, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, or to put it another way, 

" Just because an investigation does not yield evidence for a certain claim, it does not mean that claim is actually false "

 

 

Anything you cannot prove, may or may not exist.

 

 

As for bringing in figures like Santa, the tooth fairy and pink elephants, this displays an inability to actually provide a factual argument as to why I, or others should not keep an open mind on this subject.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Ilunga

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

 

For the third time, absence of evidence is evidence of absence, or to put it another way, 

" Just because an investigation does not yield evidence for a certain claim, it does not mean that claim is actually false "

 

 

Anything you cannot prove, may or may not exist.

 

 

As for bringing in figures like Santa, the tooth fairy and pink elephants, this displays an inability to actually provide a factual argument as to why I, or others should not keep an open mind on this subject.

So by that logic we need evidence proving the tooth faery, Easter Bunny, and Santa don’t exist or they actually might. Backwards thinking. God’s existence is only an opinion based on faith.  It needs to be proven true and not the other way around. 
Pink pigs flying are Gods. Prove this wrong or it’s possible true. Makes no sense to this furry assed old drunken alien. 

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

My statement speaks for itself. 

 

Which does not prove anything.

You brought up some rubbish about flying pink elephants trying to mock me, rather than providing a rational argument to counter what I stated. 

 

 

 

This is what happens with believers and non believers alike, sooner or later the conversation ends in disdain and aggravation.

[StrayDog]

3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

There is no however about it.

The statement speaks for itself.

I don't claim to believe in a creator.

 

I, like any good scientist, am keeping an open mind until I am presented with evidence that either proves or disproves there is some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

Schroedinger's Deity. God simultaneously exists and does not exist until you open the box (die)

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Which does not prove anything.

You brought up some rubbish about flying pink elephants trying to mock me, rather than providing a rational argument to counter what I stated. 

 

 

 

This is what happens with believers and non believers alike, sooner or later the conversation ends in disdain and aggravation.

It wasn’t mockery in the least.

You should know better than that of me. 
 

There’s nothing that can be said when you hold to the position that evidence for something and absence of evidence is somehow two sides of the same coin of reality. 
 

Somehow ‘possibility’ ought to be something to be treated as equal to something that can be evidenced to be , or a more intellectually sound argument. 
 

Not my cup of tea, but sip away my friend. 
 

 

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

So by that logic we need evidence proving the tooth faery, Easter Bunny, and Santa don’t exist or they actually might. Backwards thinking. God’s existence is only an opinion based on faith.  It needs to be proven true and not the other way around. 
Pink pigs flying are Gods. Prove this wrong or it’s possible true. Makes no sense to this furry assed old drunken alien. 

 

 

What have the tooth fairy and Santa have to do with a potential creator being ?

 

Why do athiests continually bring them up when pushed to prove their assertion that a god does not exist ?

 

I will listen to any proof you can offer that a being did not create the elements that make up the universe 

 

I will listen to any ideas you have about what actually created the elements, where they came from.

What was there before this universe came into being ?

 

Do you have any answers/ evidence to provide for these questions ? 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

9 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

What have the tooth fairy and Santa have to do with a potential creator being ?

 

Why do athiests continually bring them up when pushed to prove their assertion that a god does not exist ?

 

I will listen to any proof you can offer that a being did not create the elements that make up the universe 

 

I will listen to any ideas you have about what actually created the elements, where they came from.

What was there before this universe came into being ?

 

Do you have any answers/ evidence to provide for these questions ? 

 

 

It’s not an assertion that a god does not exist. 
 

It’s the refutation of the claim that one does. 
 

Show some evidence to that claim or until such time it’s logical to suggest that the absence of evidence is the absence of credibility of the claim. 
 

 

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

It wasn’t mockery in the least.

You should know better than that of me. 
 

There’s nothing that can be said when you hold to the position that evidence for something and absence of evidence is somehow two sides of the same coin of reality. 
 

Somehow ‘possibility’ ought to be something to be treated as equal to something that can be evidenced to be , or a more intellectually sound argument. 
 

Not my cup of tea, but sip away my friend. 
 

 

 

My cup of tea is continually trying to be better informed on the topics I am interested in.

Imagine if our species had closed minds, science would not exist.

 

Again I will quote Artur. C. Clarke

 

" The only way to discover the limits of the possible, is to go beyond them into the impossible "

 

Do you agree with that ?

 

As an athlete to progress/ get more proficient, I had to continually push beyond the boundaries of my abilities.

[Alflives]

Just now, Ilunga said:

 

My cup of tea is continually trying to be better informed on the topics I am interested in.

Imagine if our species had closed minds, science would not exist.

 

Again I will quote Artur. C. Clarke

 

" The only way to discover the limits of the possible, is to go beyond them into the impossible "

 

Do you agree with that ?

 

As an athlete to progress/ get more proficient, I had to continually push beyond the boundaries of my abilities.

What exactly does science have to do with a discussion of God’s existence? God’s existence is about faith, because there is no evidence that God does exist. If this was science then since there is no evidence proving God exists then that’s what the conclusion would be. No evidence = no God.