Quaz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Can any god make a rock so heavy that even that god can’t pick up? God cannot do the logically impossible. He cannot create a married bachelor or a square circle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said: The causality of natural substances can be attributed to nature and its natural properties and processes. That hadn’t required a supernatural explanation for some time. “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff”. Guess who said that awhile ago and was backed up by actual evidence. So where did those stars come from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Quaz said: God cannot do the logically impossible. He cannot create a married bachelor or a square circle. And their in lies the fallacy of an all-powerful, all-knowing diety that exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, Alflives said: Okay can we all agree it’s incumbent upon those who believe there’s a God to provide evidence? Both sides are making claims so both sides have to provide evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Ilunga said: So where did those stars come from ? Matter, Energy and Gravity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Quaz said: Both sides are making claims so both sides have to provide evidence. No. One makes the claim. If no evidence is produced, then others refute it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Sharpshooter said: Matter, Energy and Gravity. And where did they come from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: So where did those stars come from ? And your point? Where did those stars come from? IMHAO it’s not from some God. Prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Quaz said: Both sides are making claims so both sides have to provide evidence. How can there be two sides to any discussion where only one side actually exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: And where did they come from ? Not from a God figure. Prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: And your point? Where did those stars come from? IMHAO it’s not from some God. Prove me wrong. Have I ever stated that a god even exists let alone created anything ? No I haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ilunga said: And where did they come from ? You want to reduce this discussion. Sorry, I don’t want to play the absurd game. Look it up. I’m not here to do your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Ilunga said: Have I ever stated that a god even exists let alone created anything ? No I haven't. Not Arguing otherwise. Providing proof there is a Good is incumbent upon those who believe. No evidence = no God. And since no evidence can be provided and belief in God requires faith. And faith is based on that which cannot be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Have I ever stated that a god even exists let alone created anything ? No I haven't. So we agree. god does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Have I ever stated that a god even exists let alone created anything ? No I haven't. You haven’t. You’re a fence sitter. Shit or get off the pot and stop asking me for toilet paper. With respect, as a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Sharpshooter said: You want to reduce this discussion. Sorry, I don’t want to play the absurd game. Look it up. I’m not here to do your work. You know very well we get to a point where we have don't have the knowledge to answer the question of creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said: You haven’t. You’re a fence sitter. Shit or get off the pot and stop asking me for toilet paper. With respect, as a friend. Why, I don't ask you to change your beliefs, or put shit upon them. It's just another discussion to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Have I ever stated that a god even exists let alone created anything ? No I haven't. I mostly agree with you insofar as if someone is trying to tell me that there is a God then it’s incumbent on them to provide evidence. If they are telling me why they believe in God no evidence is required other than faith. Faith is enough for a believer but a non-starter for a non-believer. I have no issues with someone having faith in God to guide their own personal life but that ends when they extend it beyond themselves…and they usually do. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: So we agree. god does not exist. I don't know how many times I have to explain this I am a agnostic Definition " One who is not committed to believing in either the existence or non existence of god or a god " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: No. One makes the claim. If no evidence is produced, then others refute it. If you are going to assert that there is no God, then yes, you are making a claim. The atheistic claim is NOT the default position. Anyway, I have gone down this road of argumentation too many times to know these conversations are useless. Those who don't agree will never change their minds, and I won't change mine. It is not my job as a theist to make people believe anything. If people are genuinely interested, then I will have a discussion with them. My original post was in response to Foamys Ghost statement (2nd page) Nobody has adequately countered the Epicurean Paradox. I should have quoted him in that post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I mostly agree with you insofar as if someone is trying to tell me that there is a God then it’s incumbent on them to provide evidence. If they are telling me why they believe in God no evidence is required other than faith. Faith is enough for a believer but a non-starter for a non-believer. I have no issues with someone having faith in God to guide their own personal life but that ends when they extend it beyond themselves…and they usually do. I grew up with religious people and went to church with them and none of them wanted to convert others to their beliefs. As far as I know the vast majority of believers are the same, happy in their congregations/ communities. Have the very few religious people who have contributed to this discussion tried to convert anyone ? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: I grew up with religious people and went to church with them and none of them wanted to convert others to their beliefs. As far as I know the vast majority of believers are the same, happy in their congregations/ communities. Have the very few religious people who have contributed to this discussion tried to convert anyone ? No. I’m not talking about conversion or proselytizing. I’m referring to applying their faith to how others should live. The abortion debate, gay marriage, etc are recent examples but think back to laws for businesses to close on Sunday, temperance laws… A person’s faith can be a guidepost for their lives but not mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I grew up with religious people and went to church with them and none of them wanted to convert others to their beliefs. As far as I know the vast majority of believers are the same, happy in their congregations/ communities. Have the very few religious people who have contributed to this discussion tried to convert anyone ? No. I do not go around trying to covert people, ever. Old timer fundies do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 23 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I mostly agree with you insofar as if someone is trying to tell me that there is a God then it’s incumbent on them to provide evidence. If they are telling me why they believe in God no evidence is required other than faith. Faith is enough for a believer but a non-starter for a non-believer. I have no issues with someone having faith in God to guide their own personal life but that ends when they extend it beyond themselves…and they usually do. I'm a theist, and my belief is that if I genuinely believe in God's existence and his allowance for everyone to lead their lives according to their own choices, then I should also respect that principle. I don't feel it's my responsibility to try to change the beliefs or lives of those who share this planet with me. I often face criticism for holding this view though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Just now, Quaz said: I'm a theist, and my belief is that if I genuinely believe in God's existence and his allowance for everyone to lead their lives according to their own choices, then I should also respect that principle. I don't feel it's my responsibility to try to change the beliefs or lives of those who share this planet with me. I often face criticism for holding this view though. Can you provide evidence that God exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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