The God Thread

[Jester13]

Hey peeps, 

 

Long day today, but I'm home now. What'd I miss?

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

So you're just making stuff up on the fly to believe in? 

And what’s so wrong about that? The whole God thing is made up so why can’t an individual make up their own beliefs, right? 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Hey peeps, 

 

Long day today, but I'm home now. What'd I miss?

God is Dog spelled backwards. 

[StrayDog]

Just now, Alflives said:

God is Dog spelled backwards. 

There damn well better be dogs in the afterlife. Because if not then what's the dogdamned  point!?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

And what’s so wrong about that? The whole God thing is made up so why can’t an individual make up their own beliefs, right? 

 

bingo. This is why you shouldn't make laws to run your country based on religion. You can be Jedi Jesus if you want to, just don't make it law. 

[Playoff Beered]

Just now, Alflives said:

And what’s so wrong about that? The whole God thing is made up so why can’t an individual make up their own beliefs, right? 

Nothing wrong with it, but when you mix it with established belief systems then it becomes difficult to debate. Moving goal posts.

[Bob Long]

22 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

You can love something despite not being loving towards it at all times.

 

Besides, there could be no good without evil. No joy without tragedy.

 

Without evil, life would be full of apathy. Life would be... lifeless.

 

nah, thats just Christian rationalization. We don't need evil for anything. We could just as easily go between joy and boredom. Or joy and being slightly miffed. 

[Jester13]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

According to the Internet, 72% of the world’s population either believe that there is a God according to the holy scriptures or there is a higher spirit. 10% are not sure and 16% are atheists. 
 

So, it’s up to the 16% to convince the 72% majority that there is no God, not the other way around. 
 

https://www.gallup-international.com/survey-results-and-news/survey-result/more-prone-to-believe-in-god-than-identify-as-religious-more-likely-to-believe-in-heaven-than-in-hell

 

No offence, but this logic hurts my soul.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

Nothing wrong with it, but when you mix it with established belief systems then it becomes difficult to debate. Moving goal posts.

No it’s not. How can it be if the person you’re discussing the belief in God with doesn’t believe?  By default the non believing person has no belief system so they have no platform. It’s open season. 
It’s easy for me. The Gospels are first hand accounts. But they are exaggerated stories and are not evidence there is a God. And people can believe what they want. It’s their choice. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

So you're just making stuff up on the fly to believe in? 

 

Nope.  These are things I was taught my entire life.  Did you really think that everything a Roman Catholic believes in is in the Bible?  That's why we go to church and have priests.  When you go to church you don't just sit there and read the bible for an hour.  The priest gives a homily or a sermon.  He doesn't quote the bible verbatim.  He interprets the Bible and gives commentary on it and its scriptures...

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nope.  These are things I was taught my entire life.  Did you really think that everything a Roman Catholic believes in is in the Bible?  That's why we go to church and have priests.  When you go to church you don't just sit there and read the bible for an hour.  The priest gives a homily or a sermon.  He doesn't quote the bible verbatim.  He interprets the Bible and gives commentary on it and its scriptures...

 

just curious and not judging - why do you feel the need (if you do) to have someone between you and your beliefs? 

[PeteyBOI]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why can’t things exist from no start or nothing? The fact is we don’t know do it’s a personal choice. We can quote all the science we want but it’s all craperolla. We don’t know. It’s just like God. It’s a personal belief whether God exists or not. Can’t be proved. And IMHAO God can’t be disproved. 
Do I need to see a tree fall to accept it makes a noise? 
I just don’t get why some posters are so entrenched in their beliefs they can’t listen to what others are saying. 

ok you got me there... although something did create something... one thing must have always existed... i dont know what that is maybe its energy and time i dont spend much time thinking about it this is likely the second longest conversation i had about it... yes maybe im stuck in my ways for wanting to call it god, but i wont call it the big bang, because it makes it sound like this massive universe was created in a second, but thats not how time works... instead i like the most recent discussions of a tear in the 4th dimension which created a black hole whatever the blackhol sucked up was what shot into the universe... ok yeah wild stuff... and if you though EP was drunk for believing a afterlife i must be on drugs, well i am but just nicotine and caffeine... but if you believe this it means that its possible that there is entire universes maybe the size as our own inside each black hole...

[Elias Pettersson]

19 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

 I did ask if before. Because I still want to know why only abortion is the wrong choice. Please understand I am trying to get my head around that one thing - your belief that a soul would choose to die in utero but it is "forced" upon the soul through abortion. I think it's really those two beliefs don't sync up for me and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. 

But I do want to thank you for expressing your belief, even if I can't easily agree with it.

 

No problem my friend.  Hey, if you can figure out why a soul chooses to take its life and leave this world through abortion, then I am willing to listen to it.  At the end of the day, that is only a small part of believing in God though.  Like I said, not everything is perfect and nobody on this earth has all of the answers.  I am just giving you some feedback on my experiences and beliefs growing up as a Roman Catholic...

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nope.  These are things I was taught my entire life.  Did you really think that everything a Roman Catholic believes in is in the Bible?  That's why we go to church and have priests.  When you go to church you don't just sit there and read the bible for an hour.  The priest gives a homily or a sermon.  He doesn't quote the bible verbatim.  He interprets the Bible and gives commentary on it and its scriptures...

So you can go belief shopping to find a church that interprets the bible in the way you want? And mix in anything you find attractive to believe in? And still carry the Roman Catholic banner?

[Goose]

1 hour ago, Dankmemes187 said:

well its clear you are not hear to have a real discusiion and only choose to play by you rules... havea good day sir

 

Im not sure you fully understand the objection though Dank.  You can avoid the problem of evil if you dont ascribe God’s value to anything (hence God no longer being blameworthy). But if you do that, you can’t say that God intentionally or willed the world we know.  

 

For every rebuttal why God would create a world like this that allows for suffering, there seems to be a reasonable counter point.  The idea of an all powerful, benevolent and omniscient God becomes incoherent or unpersuasive. 

 

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

This is true.  But then the other 28% really need to come up with some facts to disprove what 72% of the world's population believe.  Unless you think it is possible that 5 billion people can be suckered into believing something that isn't true.  Am I am talking about adults here, people who are university educated, not some 6-year-old children in play school...

 

Humans are fallible. It is very possible that a large majority of people are either being suckered or dont mind being willfully ignorant.

 

For example, I dont need “God’s commands” to explain the source of our moral obligations.  Yet many people believe morality consists in obedience to God’s commands.

[StrayDog]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

No problem my friend.  Hey, if you can figure out why a soul chooses to take its life and leave this world through abortion, then I am willing to listen to it.  At the end of the day, that is only a small part of believing in God though.  Like I said, not everything is perfect and nobody on this earth has all of the answers.  I am just giving you some feedback on my experiences and beliefs growing up as a Roman Catholic...

I don't think I would ever figure that out. I don't think of the soul in the way you do. My beliefs run a bit less Catholic and a lot more Heathen. 

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

just curious and not judging - why do you feel the need (if you do) to have someone between you and your beliefs? 

 

This is more when I was younger and not able to think for myself.  As I have gotten older, I don't go to church much anymore so I actually do most of the thinking for myself and on my own.  When I do go to church I do listen to the homily and sometimes I get some new ideas and thoughts that I never heard before that start to make sense.  As I have gotten older, I have strengthened my beliefs by doing my own research and my own thinking.  I even did alot of research on if God really does exist or not.

 

At the end of the day, I've determined over time that God does really exist, there are things that have happened in my life to reinforce this, personal and private things.  And whatever I have mentioned in this thread about the afterlife I truly do believe with my entire being.  However, if someone wants to actually present me with facts that show that God and the afterlife in fact don't exist, then I am open to consider that.  So far however, I have seen nothing in this thread that would even make me consider that God and the afterlife do not exist...

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

So you can go belief shopping to find a church that interprets the bible in the way you want? And mix in anything you find attractive to believe in? And still carry the Roman Catholic banner?

 

I've never actually been to another church other than a Roman Catholic church, other than to attend a wedding...

[Gurn]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

nah, thats just Christian rationalization. We don't need evil for anything. We could just as easily go between joy and boredom. Or joy and being slightly miffed. 

Or joy and merely happy.

[Jester13]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I've never actually been to another church other than a Roman Catholic church, other than to attend a wedding...

What kind of proof would you need to accept that God does not exist? 

[PeteyBOI]

1 minute ago, A_G said:

 

Im not sure you fully understand the objection though Dank.  You can avoid the problem of evil if you dont ascribe God’s value to anything (hence God no longer being blameworthy). But if you do that, you can’t say that God intentionally or willed the world we know.  

 

For every rebuttal why God would create a world like this that allows for suffering, there seems to be a reasonable counter point.  The idea of an all powerful, benevolent and omniscient God becomes incoherent or unpersuasive. 

 

 

Humans are fallible. It is very possible that a large majority of people are either being suckered or dont mind being willfully ignorant.

 

For example, I dont need “God’s commands” to explain the source of our moral obligations.  Yet many people believe morality consists in obedience to God’s commands.

you are asking the wrong person about scripture im  not an expert, no where close... but in my minds eyes "god" is flawed just like us, however they/ it /what have been around forever Im not entirely convinced its a human like being that created this place... but i dont deny its possibility... EP explanation of the afterlife is the most plausible thing i have heard about the subject, but i do not necessarily agree with them either... im sure i could poke holes in it if i tried, but this isnt the afterlife thread its the god thread

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

What kind of proof would you need to accept that God does not exist? 

 

Well after 30+ years of being in the Roman Catholic church, along with my own research over the years, along with my own personal and private experiences that have reinforced my beliefs, it would have to be pretty compelling.  Do you have some proof that God doesn't exist and that 5 billion people have been suckered all this time?

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Well after 30+ years of being in the Roman Catholic church, along with my own research over the years, along with my own personal and private experiences that have reinforced my beliefs, it would have to be pretty compelling.  Do you have some proof that God doesn't exist and that 5 billion people have been suckered all this time?

I think I used an example earlier of having you prove that Tinkerbell isn't sitting in my open palm. How would you go about proving that to me? 

[PeteyBOI]

i am actually impressed people once treated with respect can have a normal conversation

Just now, Jester13 said:

I think I used an example earlier of having you prove that Tinkerbell isn't sitting in my open palm. How would you go about proving that to me? 

well thats a association fallacy aka non-sequitor which means the conclusion does not follow the two premices... just because he cant prove tinkerbell exists doesnt have any correlation to how god does or does not exist.

[PeteyBOI]

for further talk on that... i cant see a fart but i can smell it... i cant see or smell high extremes of H2s gas but i assure you it exists