Goose Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said: you are asking the wrong person about scripture im not an expert, no where close... but in my minds eyes "god" is flawed just like us, however they/ it /what have been around forever Im not entirely convinced its a human like being that created this place... but i dont deny its possibility... EP explanation of the afterlife is the most plausible thing i have heard about the subject, but i do not necessarily agree with them either... im sure i could poke holes in it if i tried, but this isnt the afterlife thread its the god thread The objection is logical in nature Dank. Sure, scripture informs some of it (God being a perfect being for example) but the problem of evil has more to do with logical coherence. If for example, we operate with your definition of God being flawed (rather than a perfect being), how can God be the source of morality? It is reasonable to suppose that whether we should morally do A or believe B because what ultimately grounds said obligations is flawed. Arguably, the consequences for ethics would be disastrous. But I dont think that would be acceptable for religious folk. So, we modify some of the o.g premises to fix that incoherence and round and round we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Just now, Dankmemes187 said: for further talk on that... i cant see a fart but i can smell it... i cant see or smell high extremes of H2s gas but i assure you it exists So God has an odour therefore he exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Just now, A_G said: The objection is logical in nature Dank. Sure, scripture informs some of it (God being a perfect being for example) but the problem of evil has more to do with logical coherence. If for example, we operate with your definition of God being flawed (rather than a perfect being), how can God be the source of morality? It is reasonable to suppose that whether we should morally do A or believe B because what ultimately grounds said obligations is flawed. Arguably, the consequences for ethics would be disastrous. But I dont think that would be acceptable for religious folk. So, we modify some of the o.g premises to fix that incoherence and round and round we go. im not arguing that god is even in human form, why could it be so hard to believe god is flawed though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Dankmemes187 said: im not arguing that god is even in human form, why could it be so hard to believe god is flawed though? How in the heck could God be flawed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Alflives said: So God has an odour therefore he exists? no... dont put words in my mouth... i said tinkerbell has no meaning on gods existence... and my fart reference is to h2s it was to show hoe in the real world this fallacy is a bad way to argue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: How in the heck could God be flawed? why not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Dankmemes187 said: no... dont put words in my mouth... i said tinkerbell has no meaning on gods existence... and my fart reference is to h2s it was to show hoe in the real world this fallacy is a bad way to argue what’s h2s? Plus, isn’t it foolish to argue about God's existence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said: im not arguing that god is even in human form, why could it be so hard to believe god is flawed though? Because it leads to incoherent outcomes Dank. Like I said, a flawed God couldnt be the source of morality. God’s commands are what supposedly grounds all of morality. Instead of the problem of evil you end up with the problem of morality! That’s a major problem dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said: why not? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: How in the heck could God be flawed? Man was created in his image, man is flawed therefore god is flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said: i am actually impressed people once treated with respect can have a normal conversation well thats a association fallacy aka non-sequitor which means the conclusion does not follow the two premices... just because he cant prove tinkerbell exists doesnt have any correlation to how god does or does not exist. Can you explain how they're not the same? Better yet, how does someone prove something doesn't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 34 minutes ago, Bob Long said: nah, thats just Christian rationalization. We don't need evil for anything. We could just as easily go between joy and boredom. Or joy and being slightly miffed. I don't think it could work that way. There'd be no satisfaction from achieving a goal, if there was no chance of failure. Any positive emotion would be heavily muted, to the point of apathy. In your scenario there'd be no death. No death and no evil, sounds fairly similar to what's been promised in heaven. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: Man was created in his image, man is flawed therefore god is flawed. But there is no God. If God doesn’t exist then how in the heck can he (it) be flawed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 all i hear about is gods wrath and gods vengeance... gods anger... anger is not a virtue... that is a flaw also have you ever or anyone ever design something in engineering or maybe interior design or build a car? you know why warranties exist right because there is no such thing as perfection.... even if god could make something perfect they certainly wouldn't be humans we about as evil as any species on this planet... heck this could be the bad place with all the eye gouging and burning... be good or go to level 2 basement... listens i dont believe much in what i most ly said in this post , but i dont know why people that dont belive in god would argue against god being flawed... why are you convinced they must be perfect? all the bibles quotes said that human were created in a reflection of himself, that does not mean perfection... frick maybe when he was putting the final touches on us humans he forgot to check the self replicating cells that cancer box was in the off position... alf check yourself... 30 minutes ago you argued how people were stuck in their ways... and then i mention its possible hes/it/they flawed and you outright reject it in the same manner... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: But there is no God. If God doesn’t exist then how in the heck can he (it) be flawed? If god doesn't exist, why do you ask questions about him (it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Alflives said: what’s h2s? Plus, isn’t it foolish to argue about God's existence? h2s is a naturally ocurring gas that collects and pools in low lying areas in some industries its a byproduct by breaking down and processing the material... its very deadly in high concentrations and can kill you with one breath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, Jester13 said: I think I used an example earlier of having you prove that Tinkerbell isn't sitting in my open palm. How would you go about proving that to me? Just because you can't see Tinkerbell in your open palm doesn't mean Tinkerbell doesn't exist. Your father and your mother, and your brother all see Tinkerbell. Even your neighbour who just came over to watch tv with you can see Tinkerbell. They have all confirmed it. So that leads me to only one conclusion. Your brain is shutting out Tinkerbell because of your belief that he/she doesn't exist. Your mind is playing tricks on you because everyone around you can see Tinkerbell. Either that or you have vision problems, perhaps cataracts, and need to see an eye doctor ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Can you explain how they're not the same? Better yet, how does someone prove something doesn't exist? what drugs are you on? i want some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Just because you can't see Tinkerbell in your open palm doesn't mean Tinkerbell doesn't exist. Your father and your mother, and your brother all see Tinkerbell. Even your neighbour who just came over to watch tv with you can see Tinkerbell. They have all confirmed it. So that leads me to only one conclusion. Your brain is shutting out Tinkerbell because of your belief that he/she doesn't exist. Your mind is playing tricks on you because everyone around you can see Tinkerbell. Either that or you have vision problems, perhaps cataracts, and need to see an eye doctor ASAP. They all claim that Tinkerbell does exist in my palm, so how do they prove to me that she exists? Edited September 22, 2023 by Jester13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Only thing I can say is the first account on the plant of "God" refered to aliens. For centuries God was alien. My personal opinion I have died once and came close three other times.I left my body and what they tell you is false so No I myself do not believe in God The bible story has been told many times so why is this last version right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: Man was created in his image, man is flawed therefore god is flawed. Genesis 1:27: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” The phrase “created in His own image” means that humans share some aspects of God’s character, moral, spiritual, and intellectual essence. It is not meant to imply that God has a physical form like humans. Instead, it signifies that humans are to show this representation to others and not to violate it by living contrary to God’s character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jester13 said: They all claim that Tinkerbell does exist in my palm, so how do they prove to me that she exists? The onus is on you to prove Tinkerbell doesn't exist. You are outnumbered by 4 to 1. You know the 72% that believe Tinkerbell exists. You are in the minority and may have vision problems too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, cripplereh said: Only thing I can say is the first account on the plant of "God" refered to aliens. For centuries God was alien. My personal opinion I have died once and came close three other times.I left my body and what they tell you is false so No I myself do not believe in God The bible story has been told many times so why is this last version right? What did you see when you left your body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 At first myself laying there. After I felt the presence of family that past on and had a feeling I had more to do here and opened my eyes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jester13 said: They all claim that Tinkerbell does exist in my palm, so how do they prove to me that she exists? god is an idea a theory... since there is no 100% proof of his existence no one can prove he/they/it exists to you... however many people have felt or experienced god or at least thats how they justify it in their mind, in this way it exists 100% percent in these peoples minds... you can dismiss everything that these people experienced becuse its also not proof, but i assure you they do not see it this way... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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