The God Thread

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Yep much clearer for me now..

 

So electrons ( particles) are clouds ( fog), or waves/particles depending if they are observed...use the classic split screen to confuse us and show its both....how does, or does superposition ( particles that exist in two places at once!) fit into it?

 

The article takes a while to drive around and then kinda gets to the point, which there is one... the quantum field is wacky to say the least. But what about the M theory stuff? are there little strings vibrating away and that vibration makes a quark? Or invisible vibrating loops?

 

We will need a God to continue down this Horton Hears a Who! hole.

 

I am the wrong person to ask to explain how quantum electrodynamics work.  Often I can read things and hang on by my fingernails, but not often enough.

 

But yeah, superposition is truly weird isn't it?  Won't get me trying to explain that one either.

 

As for string theory, it seems to have fallen out of favour over the last few years.   I'm happy to hear that because I never really liked it,  if only for the reason that it could never be proven empirically and could only be thought about.

 

Below BTW was what I was looking for when I found that article.   I must admit to being a materialist and seeing everything in terms of atoms.   I also have to remain open to Platonists and those who see life, religion, and the Universe in that way. 

Physicist and philosophy writer Freeman Dyson has suggested that one can broadly, if over-simplistically, divide "observers of the philosophical scene" into splitters and lumpers - roughly corresponding to materialists (who imagine the world as divided into atoms) and Platonists (who regard the world as made up of ideas).^[19]

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

I am the wrong person to ask to explain how quantum electrodynamics work.  Often I can read things and hang on by my fingernails, but not often enough.

 

But yeah, superposition is truly weird isn't it?  Won't get me trying to explain that one either.

 

As for string theory, it seems to have fallen out of favour over the last few years.   I'm happy to hear that because I never really liked it,  if only for the reason that it could never be proven empirically and could only be thought about.

 

Below BTW was what I was looking for when I found that article.   I must admit to being a materialist and seeing everything in terms of atoms.   I also have to remain open to Platonists and those who see life, religion, and the Universe in that way. 

Physicist and philosophy writer Freeman Dyson has suggested that one can broadly, if over-simplistically, divide "observers of the philosophical scene" into splitters and lumpers - roughly corresponding to materialists (who imagine the world as divided into atoms) and Platonists (who regard the world as made up of ideas).^[19]

 

I love that you posted that article. 

By my response you can tell I was talking, and a lot of articles are, about a classic understanding of 'space' 

 

Superpostion is very strange. That and quantum entanglement are some of the coolest, straight up magic, in our reality. 

 

thanks for the chat.

As for the God topic. I remain in the 'i dont know' crowd as we just ...dont know. 

 

but I do think if there is a God, it has a plan far bigger than this mortal existence that we have to suffer through....and i dont like it's style

 

 

[RupertKBD]

Apparently, a lot of people were shocked by this:

 

 

But not me....

 

I mean, who hasn't gotten pissed off at their kid on occasion?

[bishopshodan]

24 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Apparently, a lot of people were shocked by this:

 

So was Jesus

[Optimist Prime]

[Ilunga]

@Optimist Prime

 

To continue our discussion from the Hamas thread.

 

Of course you don't need a belief in a god to do good things.

However many people are driven by their religious beliefs to do good things and be good people.

You talk about fear of the other, you display this with comments like, fear of punishment, in relation to religious people doing good.

You are inferring that religious people are driven by fear to do good.

 

Respectfully, this is not true at all.

Kindness is motivated by the urge to put others needs before your own.

Fear does not motivate this.

 

Do you know that studies have illustrated that being kind to others actually

releases the good hormones in your brain and contributes to your well-being 

 

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/science-of-kindness.html 

 

I have no biases in relation to a person being religious, secular, agnostic or athiest.

All I care about is the content of their character, that they have a good heart.

Many of the best people I have ever known have been religious.

Some have been secular/ agnostic, very few athiests. 

 

You talk about killing in the name of, my country has never gone to war in the name of a God.

Neither has yours.  

 

Tolerance my friend, in all its forms is a good thing.

[112]

 

[luckylager]

On 12/1/2023 at 11:35 AM, RupertKBD said:

Apparently, a lot of people were shocked by this:

 

 

But not me....

 

I mean, who hasn't gotten pissed off at their kid on occasion?

Jesus H Christ, for the 4th time boy, take out the garbage and recycling! RIGHT NOW

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:46 PM, Ilunga said:

@Optimist Prime

 

To continue our discussion from the Hamas thread.

 

Of course you don't need a belief in a god to do good things.

However many people are driven by their religious beliefs to do good things and be good people.

You talk about fear of the other, you display this with comments like, fear of punishment, in relation to religious people doing good.

You are inferring that religious people are driven by fear to do good.

 

Respectfully, this is not true at all.

Kindness is motivated by the urge to put others needs before your own.

Fear does not motivate this.

 

Do you know that studies have illustrated that being kind to others actually

releases the good hormones in your brain and contributes to your well-being 

 

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/science-of-kindness.html 

 

I have no biases in relation to a person being religious, secular, agnostic or athiest.

All I care about is the content of their character, that they have a good heart.

Many of the best people I have ever known have been religious.

Some have been secular/ agnostic, very few athiests. 

 

You talk about killing in the name of, my country has never gone to war in the name of a God.

Neither has yours.  

 

Tolerance my friend, in all its forms is a good thing.

You ask everyone you meet their religious beliefs? As for war, does genocide count? Because our country did that in the name of god, so did yours. 

[Ilunga]

53 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

You ask everyone you meet their religious beliefs? As for war, does genocide count? Because our country did that in the name of god, so did yours. 

 

For starters where did I ask anyone to do anything in that post ?

 

As for what we did to or indigenous people that was in  cololainism. 

 

Captain Cook didn't shoot people in the name of God.

 

You would have been better off pointing out our stolen generations, though the indigenous stolen generation was more due to racism, not acting in the name of a God.

 

My stolen generation, the one I am a member of was religiously motivated. 

 

As I stated neither of our countries have gone to war in the name of a god. 

 

As for what you highlighted, are you calling me a liar ? 

 

I admit I grew up with religious people around me, most of them were/ are really good people. 

 

Frankly what I ask people to do in many of posts is what I do, treat others the way I  want to be treated and treat those less fortunate with compassion and empathy.

[RupertKBD]

This guy in Florida wants to ban the display of Pride flags on public properties.....in the name of "religious freedom"..... I suppose that means that religious folks aren't "free" unless they can restrict the actions of others?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/florida-bill-banning-pride-flag-would-make-showing-support-for-lgbtq-people-a-political-viewpoint/ar-AA1lHEAP?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=394a8277687c454bb98d3a325eb36920&ei=18

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

14 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

This guy in Florida wants to ban the display of Pride flags on public properties.....in the name of "religious freedom"..... I suppose that means that religious folks aren't "free" unless they can restrict the actions of others?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/florida-bill-banning-pride-flag-would-make-showing-support-for-lgbtq-people-a-political-viewpoint/ar-AA1lHEAP?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=394a8277687c454bb98d3a325eb36920&ei=18

 

 

My mum passed away in 2022, but playing a few games of Crib with her a month before that, she was livid, like mad as hell and not gonna take it any more, that there was a rainbow coloured crosswalk in front of the High School I graduated from now. She wanted to get white paint and take it in her walker over to the crosswalk at 5 in the morning but said she needed help to spread the paint out over the crosswalk, as she was too old to do it herself. This was after she calmed down from spittle flying rage in describing how the sickos are recruiting at the high school now. 

 

I was very upfront with my feeling that her comments were not acceptable in 2022. I mimed for her a kid walking to the the crosswalk and said out loud "Just a normal high school kid, thinking about boobs and gym class after lunch...walking along..and whooa, what is this? A Rainbow Crosswalk? Suddenly I feel the urge to shove a penis deep into my throat...yuck, boobs, what was i thinking....It is just absurd as an idea that rainbow coloured crosswalks are a recruiting tool for gays."

 

She laughed a bit and calmed down enough to explain that the rainbow in her view was a promise from god, you see she was ultra religious, went to two services a week and three bible studies for most of her life, and she felt that the gays (her words not mine) were undermining jesus by taking over the rainbow for their evil purposes and city hall was letting them just go into that high school and turn kids gay. 

 

Can't teach an old dog new tricks and I was aware of her failing health so i left it there and dealt the next hand.

 

When a person has been indoctrinated from birth to believe something, by the time they are 8 even, let alone 80+ you will never get them to not believe it. 

Cults are a weird thing, and some of the largest of them, Christianity and Islam among the giants on this earth are the weirdest, yet somehow get by using the idea that since so many believe it, it must be true. 

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

My mum passed away in 2022, but playing a few games of Crib with her a month before that, she was livid, like mad as hell and not gonna take it any more, that there was a rainbow coloured crosswalk in front of the High School I graduated from now. She wanted to get white paint and take it in her walker over to the crosswalk at 5 in the morning but said she needed help to spread the paint out over the crosswalk, as she was too old to do it herself. This was after she calmed down from spittle flying rage in describing how the sickos are recruiting at the high school now. 

 

I was very upfront with my feeling that her comments were not acceptable in 2022. I mimed for her a kid walking to the the crosswalk and said out loud "Just a normal high school kid, thinking about boobs and gym class after lunch...walking along..and whooa, what is this? A Rainbow Crosswalk? Suddenly I feel the urge to shove a penis deep into my throat...yuck, boobs, what was i thinking....It is just absurd as an idea that rainbow coloured crosswalks are a recruiting tool for gays."

 

She laughed a bit and calmed down enough to explain that the rainbow in her view was a promise from god, you see she was ultra religious, went to two services a week and three bible studies for most of her life, and she felt that the gays (her words not mine) were undermining jesus by taking over the rainbow for their evil purposes and city hall was letting them just go into that high school and turn kids gay. 

 

Can't teach an old dog new tricks and I was aware of her failing health so i left it there and dealt the next hand.

 

When a person has been indoctrinated from birth to believe something, by the time they are 8 even, let alone 80+ you will never get them to not believe it. 

Cults are a weird thing, and some of the largest of them, Christianity and Islam among the giants on this earth are the weirdest, yet somehow get by using the idea that since so many believe it, it must be true. 

 

I have a lot of relatives like this back on the prairies. There's no middle ground. Its why we really need to protect our charter and not let things get the way of the US where "religious freedom" is driving too much policy.

 

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

My mum passed away in 2022, but playing a few games of Crib with her a month before that, she was livid, like mad as hell and not gonna take it any more, that there was a rainbow coloured crosswalk in front of the High School I graduated from now. She wanted to get white paint and take it in her walker over to the crosswalk at 5 in the morning but said she needed help to spread the paint out over the crosswalk, as she was too old to do it herself. This was after she calmed down from spittle flying rage in describing how the sickos are recruiting at the high school now. 

 

I was very upfront with my feeling that her comments were not acceptable in 2022. I mimed for her a kid walking to the the crosswalk and said out loud "Just a normal high school kid, thinking about boobs and gym class after lunch...walking along..and whooa, what is this? A Rainbow Crosswalk? Suddenly I feel the urge to shove a penis deep into my throat...yuck, boobs, what was i thinking....It is just absurd as an idea that rainbow coloured crosswalks are a recruiting tool for gays."

 

She laughed a bit and calmed down enough to explain that the rainbow in her view was a promise from god, you see she was ultra religious, went to two services a week and three bible studies for most of her life, and she felt that the gays (her words not mine) were undermining jesus by taking over the rainbow for their evil purposes and city hall was letting them just go into that high school and turn kids gay. 

 

Can't teach an old dog new tricks and I was aware of her failing health so i left it there and dealt the next hand.

 

When a person has been indoctrinated from birth to believe something, by the time they are 8 even, let alone 80+ you will never get them to not believe it. 

Cults are a weird thing, and some of the largest of them, Christianity and Islam among the giants on this earth are the weirdest, yet somehow get by using the idea that since so many believe it, it must be true. 

 

Thanks for the personal story. My Mom passed away last February and age 89 and considering all the factors about her (older, white, Catholic) one would expect her to have a similar reaction.....but they'd be wrong.

 

Never in my life did I see my Mom display an ounce of bigotry towards anyone. She truly believed that all of us were created the way we were and that all should be accepted and respected, despite our lifestyles. My oldest daughter is gay, yet my Mom never treated her any differently than my other two girls. They were all her grandkids and she loved them all unequivocally.

 

I firmly believe that my personal worldview was heavily (and positively) influenced by my parents. I didn't agree with their religious views, but their view of humanity and their empathy for others is deeply ingrained in me....and always will be. (I'm in my 60's)

 

Interesting sideline about my Mom. As a devout Catholic, she rode her scooter to Church every Sunday morning. (a few blocks from her apartment in Kelowna) However, when the news of the mass graves at the Residential School in Kamloops broke, that was it. She remained the same caring person she always was, but from that day forward, she was "divorced" from the Roman Catholic Church.

[Ilunga]

11 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Thanks for the personal story. My Mom passed away last February and age 89 and considering all the factors about her (older, white, Catholic) one would expect her to have a similar reaction.....but they'd be wrong.

 

Never in my life did I see my Mom display an ounce of bigotry towards anyone. She truly believed that all of us were created the way we were and that all should be accepted and respected, despite our lifestyles. My oldest daughter is gay, yet my Mom never treated her any differently than my other two girls. They were all her grandkids and she loved them all unequivocally.

 

I firmly believe that my personal worldview was heavily (and positively) influenced by my parents. I didn't agree with their religious views, but their view of humanity and their empathy for others is deeply ingrained in me....and always will be. (I'm in my 60's)

 

Interesting sideline about my Mom. As a devout Catholic, she rode her scooter to Church every Sunday morning. (a few blocks from her apartment in Kelowna) However, when the news of the mass graves at the Residential School in Kamloops broke, that was it. She remained the same caring person she always was, but from that day forward, she was "divorced" from the Roman Catholic Church.

 

Did she keep her faith/ belief in her God ?

 

My parents were the most kind hearted, tolerant, compassionate people I have ever met.

And I am surrounded by people like this, birds of a feather, flock together.

They did not criticise or mock others who did not share their beliefs, or people who mocked people like them for having their beliefs. 

They were truly wonderful people who shaped me into the person I am.

My friends are incredible people who have done things I would like to believe I would do, however I have not been in their situations.

 

The " church " isn't a belief system, that is a hiarachy of men. 

[RupertKBD]

15 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Did she keep her faith/ belief in her God ?

 

My parents were the most kind hearted, tolerant, compassionate people I have ever met.

And I am surrounded by people like this, birds of a feather, flock together.

They did not criticise or mock others who did not share their beliefs, or people who mocked people like them for having their beliefs. 

They were truly wonderful people who shaped me into the person I am.

My friends are incredible people who have done things I would like to believe I would do, however I have not been in their situations.

 

The " church " isn't a belief system, that is a hiarachy of men. 

 

Yes. The only thing she left was the church.

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yes. The only thing she left was the church.

 

As I have already stated, I confronted my parents with the injustices of the church as an institution.

As my mum stated, she didn't have much respect for the church as an institution, it was her faith and her congregation that mattered to her. 

 

Her congregation was like any given group of people, there were good, a few bad and everything in-between.

Most of the people I remember were decent people who helped both those within their congregation and those outside of it.

 

 

[UnkNuk]

13 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

When a person has been indoctrinated from birth to believe something, by the time they are 8 even, let alone 80+ you will never get them to not believe it. 

 

It can take time but changes can slowly occur.

 

Pope Francis authorizes blessings for same-sex couples

Pope Francis formally permitted Roman Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples on Monday, in a significant shift in the church’s approach to LGBTQ+ people.

 

The blessings may be carried out providing they are not part of regular Church rituals or liturgies, nor at the same time as a civil union, according to a Vatican document approved by the pope.

 

The latest ruling fleshes out the opening the pope made to blessing same-sex couples last October and marks a shift away from a 2021 ruling from the Vatican doctrine office which barred any blessings, saying God “cannot bless sin.”

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-couples-blessing-intl/index.html

 

[Ilunga]

56 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

It can take time but changes can slowly occur.

 

Pope Francis authorizes blessings for same-sex couples

Pope Francis formally permitted Roman Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples on Monday, in a significant shift in the church’s approach to LGBTQ+ people.

 

The blessings may be carried out providing they are not part of regular Church rituals or liturgies, nor at the same time as a civil union, according to a Vatican document approved by the pope.

 

The latest ruling fleshes out the opening the pope made to blessing same-sex couples last October and marks a shift away from a 2021 ruling from the Vatican doctrine office which barred any blessings, saying God “cannot bless sin.”

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-couples-blessing-intl/index.html

 

 

 

 

[Slegr]

Serious question: why does Christianity believe homosexuality is a sin? I don’t think Jesus ever said a thing about it, as far as I know. What reasoning does Christianity take on why it’s considered a sin?

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, Slegr said:

Serious question: why does Christianity believe homosexuality is a sin? I don’t think Jesus ever said a thing about it, as far as I know. What reasoning does Christianity take on why it’s considered a sin?

 

He didn't. Jesus is silent on it. No one can base their dislike of it based on Jesus. 

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Slegr said:

Serious question: why does Christianity believe homosexuality is a sin? I don’t think Jesus ever said a thing about it, as far as I know. What reasoning does Christianity take on why it’s considered a sin?

 

Not all Christians are bigots.

This a solid article that explores your question from the point of view, of Christians who believe their god 

 

" God has clearly embraced LGBTQ+ people in full communion, and it's now the church's responsibility to simply honor that reality and rejoice "

 

https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality

 

 

[112]

13 hours ago, Slegr said:

Serious question: why does Christianity believe homosexuality is a sin? I don’t think Jesus ever said a thing about it, as far as I know. What reasoning does Christianity take on why it’s considered a sin?

Paul's books in the Bible. Paul claimed he was met on the road by Jesus 7 (iirc) years after the crucifixion and then became an early leader in the church. His letters state homosexuality is a sin.

[Bob Long]

45 minutes ago, 112 said:

Paul's books in the Bible. Paul claimed he was met on the road by Jesus 7 (iirc) years after the crucifixion and then became an early leader in the church. His letters state homosexuality is a sin.

 

Paul sounds like a dick.

[RupertKBD]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

Paul sounds like a dick.

 

George, John > Paul....