The God Thread

[Cold]

I am an atheist with agnostic leanings.

I believe once I die it’s over, finito, done. 
 

But, is there more to this reality than meets the eye? You bet. Is there a possibility that we are living in an AI created simulation? Sure.

Is it interesting to explore ideas in a hypothetical way, especially with open minded religious folk? Absolutely. Especially if beer or wine is involved. 

But (again), exploring other ideas doesn’t really have any bearing on my day to day life. In the same way my religious friends enjoy the debate but aren’t really influenced in how they live their lives.
 

We both think it’s important to be moral people. We both think it’s important to be kind and respectful and compassionate.

 

Even if we get there from different reasonings.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Cold
Spelling

[Jester13]

10 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

From the Oxford Dictionary

 

A disbelief or lack of belief in a God.

 

So there is an element of disbelief in the meaning of the word athiest.

 

That's a great post and you have touched upon points I have brought up.

 

You say god is a myth that we can't let go of and accept there is more to learn.

I can be only speak for the religious people I know well and they realise acquiring knowledge is an endless task, as my father taught me, Einstein's statement, the more I learn, the more I realise I don't know.

My parents were learning until they day they died, in their late 80's.

I think you are stereotyping religious people.

 

Who or what created the elements that caused the big bang ?

What was there before the big bang ?

Can you really comprehend the idea of infinity ?

Human beings cannot really grasp the idea of infinity.

I know I can't.

A God helps some people deal with that reality.

 

As you have stated, we can't prove their is a god and we can't not prove it.

Athiests use that argument about extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Well to a religious person it is an extraordinary claim that a god does not exist, so they require extraordinary proof. 

 

Indeed your posts are respectful and insightful.

 

We can prove the ancient idea of God(s) that still persists until today as nit existing because we can disprove all the creation stories and physics defying activities, all while keeping in mind that these ideas originated from people with the most rudimentary understanding of, well, anything. THAT God does not exist. 

 

4 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Sooooo.....the copious amounts of beer that I drink is a result of factors outside of my control....I have no choice but to drink them....

 

Thanks J....I feel so much better about myself now.

 

Addiction is certainly not something we choose to have. We can still hold ourselves and others accountable, however, while having empathy towards each other for the things about us that occurred to make us who we are. This is why those who believe in free will often support a vindictive judicial system rather than rehabilitation: They look at a serial killer as a monster who "could have chosen not to" kill people, when the reality is that said person almost certainly was heavily abused as a very young child and has developmental issues that made them into the so called monster. Said person isn't responsible for being said monster, but we can still hold that person accountable and keep them separate from society to keep others safe, but we could at least do it with humanity involved rather than vengeance. A lack of free will breeds empathy.

 

4 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Just added them to my Amazon shopping list.

 

Thanks mate.

 

Check out the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu. Unreal series. Netflix is about to launch a series, too, with the same creators of Game of Thrones.

 

4 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

As was I. Sometimes, as we grow older, we question (and sometimes change) our beliefs.

 

I believe the point that Matt was making is that the majority of people who are believers into adulthood, were raised to be believers by their parents. I think he's entirely correct in that assumption.

 

Agreed. This is a great example of a lack of free will, too.

 

3 hours ago, LaBamba said:

I’m going to believe in God until the scientific explanation for how the universe was created with the perfect conditions for our planet to sustain life are presented to me in a more logical Theory than a creator.
anyone ever see an animation of how the moon was created hahahahah. It’s hilarious. 
maybe our destiny as a species is to evolve to the point where we fully understand reality. Right now, none of these theories are scientifically proven. 
Guys like Steven Meyer are labeled pseudoscientists for their mathematically based theories on intelligent design yet guys who work on string theory win Nobel prizes for something that should be as or for more controversial. 
You can be an atheist and entertain the possibility. If you don’t, I’m sorry but you’re not open minded. 

Intelligent design could mean that we are in a simulation. Maybe the creator of that simulation is “God”. The possibilities are endless. 

 

ID has been proven wrong many times. The eyeball, for example, and evolution (one of the most proven theories to date).

 

Also, if there was a "creator" being who made the universe, who made that creator, and then who made the creator's creator...

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I agree.  I am the same as you.  I am also a Roman Catholic but do have an open mind.  Problem is nobody has ever provided me with a logical and suitable explanation for why there is no God.  So, until that happens I will believe what I believe.  Also, it's not up to me to prove whether there is a God or not, somebody needs to prove to me that there isn't one.  Telling me there is no God because bad things happen to good people, so why is God making these people suffer, doesn't even hold the sniff test for me that there is no God.  Even someone with a basic understanding of the Roman Catholic religion would be able to counter that argument...

 

And how would you say someone is supposed to prove that something doesn't exist? If I say to you with my hand out, palm up, "Prove to me that Tinkerbell isn't sitting in my hand right now", what would you say? 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jester13

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Addiction is certainly not something we choose to have. We can still hold ourselves and others accountable, however, while having empathy towards each other for the things about us that occurred to make us who we are. This is why those who believe in free will often support a vindictive judicial system rather than rehabilitation: They look at a serial killer as a monster who "could have chosen not to" kill people, when the reality is that said person almost certainly was heavily abused as a very young child and has developmental issues that made them into the so called monster. Said person isn't responsible for being said monster, but we can still hold that person accountable and keep them separate from society to keep others safe, but we could at least do it with humanity involved rather than vengeance. A lack of free will breeds empathy.

 

 

Check out the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu. Unreal series. Netflix is about to launch a series, too, with the same creators of Game of Thrones.

 

I've read it. Liu is one of the most creative hard SF writers I've ever read.

 

I'm hoping for the best from the Netflix series, but it's going to be a tough one to do justice to.

 

BTW: I don't really drink all that much. It was more or less a joke.....

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I've read it. Liu is one of the most creative hard SF writers I've ever read.

 

I'm hoping for the best from the Netflix series, but it's going to be a tough one to do justice to.

 

BTW: I don't really drink all that much. It was more or less a joke.....

 

Hahaha, I caught your joke, so no worries there. I just added more free will mumbo jumbo to the discussion with that as an example, as it's a good one to use and it was there. 

 

I hope the Netflix series is a long one with many seasons like GoT. It's such an epic scope that a few seasons won't be enough. Fingers crossed its good, cause Death's End still sits with me. 

[NoHeart]

39 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

What's so sad about my post? What I posted is merely a part of the introduction. The Lexicon is 615 pages long. I'm trying to learn to read ancient hebrew so I can understand what was actually said rather than someone's interpretation.

 

 

It was a fat finger. I’ve been banned for 5 years and get overwhelmed with all these upvotes lol. 

[RupertKBD]

7 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Hahaha, I caught your joke, so no worries there. I just added more free will mumbo jumbo to the discussion with that as an example, as it's a good one to use and it was there. 

 

I hope the Netflix series is a long one with many seasons like GoT. It's such an epic scope that a few seasons won't be enough. Fingers crossed its good, cause Death's End still sits with me. 

 

Not sure if you're aware, but there was a sequel to the series....sort of.

 

It was fan fiction and the title escapes me right now, but it carries on the timeline and although I wouldn't put it in Liu's caliber, it was definitely worth the read.

 

EDIT: Found it: https://www.amazon.ca/Redemption-Time-Three-Body-Problem-Novel/dp/1250306027

Edited September 21, 2023 by RupertKBD

[Snoop Hogg]

What if God was one of us?

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Snoop Hogg said:

What if God was one of us?

 

My money is on Pete Davidson....

[RWMc1]

25 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

It was a fat finger. I’ve been banned for 5 years and get overwhelmed with all these upvotes lol. 

I used to hate the gold stars in grade school. The teachers would invariably put one right over one of my doodles.

[RWMc1]

This one talks about time in relation to creation. I don't blindly accept stuff, but I don't blindly reject either. A true open mind at least considers possibilities.

 

 

https://www.stjohnsarlingtonva.org/Customer-Content/saintjohnsarlington/CMS/files/EFM/Bereshit_Commentary.pdf

[NoHeart]

49 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

 

ID has been proven wrong many times. The eyeball, for example, and evolution (one of the most proven theories to date).

 

Also, if there was a "creator" being who made the universe, who made that creator, and then who made the creator's creator...

 

 

 

It is impossible to disprove ID. Evolution sure doesn’t. The mathematical odds of the conditions happening by accident sure doesn’t prove it’s by chance. 
evolution has some pretty major flaws 
Lack of fossils 

Origin of sexual reproduction 

Origin of virus

Brain Development 

 

the moon exactly eclipses the sun. Try calculating those odds. That had to happen to create tides, to bring life on land. 
 

What was the universe before the universe? scientists haven’t even concluded that the universe had a beginning. The data points that a big bang happened 13B years ago in the observable universe. Some scientists think it could’ve been a small event in an even bigger universe. 

we do not understand enough to make any conclusions. 
 

Edited September 21, 2023 by LaBamba

[MeanSeanBean]

37 minutes ago, Snoop Hogg said:

What if God was one of us?

 I'd really like to meet her

[Snoop Hogg]

Just now, MeanSeanBean said:

 I'd really like to meet her

And ask her why we’re who we are…

[MeanSeanBean]

2 minutes ago, Snoop Hogg said:

And ask her why we’re who we are…

You decide who you are through your actions. Whatever creator designed this sandbox we play in has zero influence over that.

[Jester13]

8 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Not sure if you're aware, but there was a sequel to the series....sort of.

 

It was fan fiction and the title escapes me right now, but it carries on the timeline and although I wouldn't put it in Liu's caliber, it was definitely worth the read.

 

EDIT: Found it: https://www.amazon.ca/Redemption-Time-Three-Body-Problem-Novel/dp/1250306027

 

I am. Bought it and crushed it as well

 

Oh, man, I'm also a book collector and online seller, and I have a Subterranean Press set of the trilogy that is soooooo nice. They're some of my prized books.

 

 

[Jester13]

38 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

It is impossible to disprove ID. Evolution sure doesn’t. The mathematical odds of the conditions happening by accident sure doesn’t prove it’s by chance. 
evolution has some pretty major flaws 
Lack of fossils 

Origin of sexual reproduction 

Origin of virus

Brain Development 

 

the moon exactly eclipses the sun. Try calculating those odds. That had to happen to create tides, to bring life on land. 
 

What was the universe before the universe? scientists haven’t even concluded that the universe had a beginning. The data points that a big bang happened 13B years ago in the observable universe. Some scientists think it could’ve been a small event in an even bigger universe. 

we do not understand enough to make any conclusions. 
 

 

I will have to politely disagree with all of your post except the last paragraph and sentence. The rest is simply incorrect.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

And how would you say someone is supposed to prove that something doesn't exist? If I say to you with my hand out, palm up, "Prove to me that Tinkerbell isn't sitting in my hand right now", what would you say? 

According to the Internet, 72% of the world’s population either believe that there is a God according to the holy scriptures or there is a higher spirit. 10% are not sure and 16% are atheists. 
 

So, it’s up to the 16% to convince the 72% majority that there is no God, not the other way around. 
 

https://www.gallup-international.com/survey-results-and-news/survey-result/more-prone-to-believe-in-god-than-identify-as-religious-more-likely-to-believe-in-heaven-than-in-hell

[Ghost In a Jar]

Spoiler

God isn't real and religion causes war and oppression.  

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ghost In a Jar

[RupertKBD]

45 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

According to the Internet, 72% of the world’s population either believe that there is a God according to the holy scriptures or there is a higher spirit. 10% are not sure and 16% are atheists. 
 

So, it’s up to the 16% to convince the 72% majority that there is no God, not the other way around. 
 

https://www.gallup-international.com/survey-results-and-news/survey-result/more-prone-to-believe-in-god-than-identify-as-religious-more-likely-to-believe-in-heaven-than-in-hell

 

Yes, and it's up to the 10% of 6 year olds to prove to the 90% that there is no Santa Claus....

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yes, and it's up to the 10% of 6 year olds to prove to the 90% that there is no Santa Claus....

A 6 year old child doesn’t typically have the mental acuity or the knowledge to know whether Santa Claus is real or not.
 

The 10% would be the exception and might be of some higher educational standards or just plain smarter at a much earlier age to process the information required to make an informed and logical decision that Santa Claus is actually not real regardless of what their parents tell them. 

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

A 6 year old child doesn’t typically have the mental acuity or the knowledge to know whether Santa Claus is real or not.
 

The 10% would be the exception and might be of some higher educational standards or just plain smarter at a much earlier age to process the information required to make an informed and logical decision that Santa Claus is actually not real regardless of what their parents tell them. 

 

A 6 year old should understand that a simple majority doesn't decide what is fact and what is fiction....

[bishopshodan]

2 hours ago, Cold said:

I am an atheist with agnostic leanings.

 

Until today I didn't think you could be both.

Since you have agnostic leanings, in my head that makes you agnostic..as in you are open to possibilities. 

 

But apparently you can...

 

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2020/07/believe#:~:text=Technically%2C an atheist is someone,know whether a god exists.

Nonbelief comes in many varieties. Technically, an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a god, while an agnostic is someone who doesn’t believe it’s possible to know for sure that a god exists. It’s possible to be both—an agnostic atheist doesn’t believe but also doesn’t think we can ever know whether a god exists. A gnostic atheist, on the other hand, believes with certainty that a god does not exist.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

A 6 year old should understand that a simple majority doesn't decide what is fact and what is fiction....

72% of the world’s population that believe in God or a higher being isn’t a simple majority. According to the Internet, the definition of a simple majority is 50% + 1.  
 

72% would be considered a super majority, or enough of a majority to prevent a simple majority from eroding fundamental rights of a minority. 

[RupertKBD]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

72% of the world’s population that believe in God or a higher being isn’t a simple majority. According to the Internet, the definition of a simple majority is 50% + 1.  
 

72% would be considered a super majority, or enough of a majority to prevent a simple majority from eroding fundamental rights of a minority. 

 

Who cares?

 

They still don't get to decide what is fact.

 

A few hundred years ago, a majority of people thought that bathing was harmful

Edited September 21, 2023 by RupertKBD

[PeteyBOI]

1 hour ago, Snoop Hogg said:

What if God was one of us?

I heard this song hundreds of times... very catchy tune...

 

there is literally zero ways to prove god existence or non existence...  I havent heard one argument in my life that has convinced me that their "Proof or Logic" that god does or does not...

 

The latest theory i heard came from a brilliant man, that god is in all of us through instinct, kinda programmed in there from birth (laymans terms of course)... kinda like  how a kitty knows how to instinctively seek perches to sit on while they look down on us mortal humans... their argument basically nullifies lot of its counterparts "proof or theory" and one of the ways that so many people are able to talk to this god when on hallucinogens or when the brain chemistry collapses under dire stress... we all do have instinct, maybe "god" is all of us? it would explain so many things... the people that all saw jesus walk on water were just trippin balls on mescalin or a schizophrenic that was quite charming that shared his mescalin and they both talked to god through a shared hallucination... um i mean talking to god