Is Pettersson an elite/superstar forward? Is he up there with McDavid, Matthews etc?

[Ballisticsports]

11 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Then he arrived and they still didn't make the playoffs 3 out of the first 4 years with him on board.

 

I just don't like him. Yes, he's brilliant when he gets a head of steam and rabbit hops around the ice with the puck and no one can stop him. And the refs help him with a clear path where no one can intervene (at least initially...he'd look for calls and ... get them).

 

But his team has been a bit of a flop and so is "an" individual worthy of worshipping if he can't help his team get there? Maybe he's too selfish?

 

There's no I in team. Petey's pretty unselfish (too much at times, especially recently). Anyhow, I know my argument's weak and from a homer stance. But I own that. And I'll take Petey any day....I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg in what he's capable of. And his physicality lately is commendable...because he won't be targeted so much (especially with Zadorov in the line up).

 

Anyhow...watching the Oilers vs Kings right now. Haven't even noticed the superstar yet....he's invisible so far. We'll see what I'm missing.

 

 

 

 

Probably what happened to EP (and Canucks)

Too much turkey 

I should turn on tv and watch captured WJC games saved myself

[Ballisticsports]

11 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

Fair question. For a one shot, high scoring show like the Olympics, yes I'd be dumb to not have McD on Canada's team. But in the real world (NHL) with a salary cap, I don't see him as a leader or great all around player. If I was building a team I would take Ep at ~ 10m/year over McD at ~ 15m/year. 

One in over 40% of team goals

One over 25% of team goals

Neither of them take that cap amount of the team

 

I would like both as 1 and 2 centres on my team 

 

I do the like Miller EP 1 and 2 and hopefully EP does and shows he believes and likes this team, management and City to commit to it like Miller did

Edited December 31, 2023 by Ballisticsports

[sxqhfeh]

of course NOT, not even close, he can't even compare to our 1st line C JTM, what are you guys talking about, lol why you making this thing up

Edited December 31, 2023 by sxqhfeh

[EdgarM]

6 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

of course NOT, not a chance, he can't even compare to our 1st line C JTM, what are you guys talking about, lol why you making this thing up

 I was thinking the same thing. Off the top of my head, JTM can stay on his feet and is a far better face off man. 

[-dlc-]

21 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Probably what happened to EP (and Canucks)

Too much turkey 

I should turn on tv and watch captured WJC games saved myself

Enjoy! Watched one earlier....a good sports day today.

[sxqhfeh]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 I was thinking the same thing. Off the top of my head, JTM can stay on his feet and is a far better face off man. 

JT Miller is outscoring Petey as he has every year except last year(JT's bad season) and he is our 1st line C, Petey is the 2nd line C

[Got the Babych]

16 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

One in over 40% of team goals

One over 25% of team goals

 

I would like both as 1 and 2 centres on my team 

 

I do the like Miller EP 1 and 2 and hopefully EP does and shows he believes and likes this team, management and City to commit to it like Miller did

For the record, I don't see EP as a leader either, and McD is obviously more gifted offensively. But. EP is a better 2 way player and if he signs for a reasonable deal will be a great core piece. Can't be the "franchise" forward on a contender, though, so someone needs to figure that out.

[Ballisticsports]

9 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

For the record, I don't see EP as a leader either, and McD is obviously more gifted offensively. But. EP is a better 2 way player and if he signs for a reasonable deal will be a great core piece. Can't be the "franchise" forward on a contender, though, so someone needs to figure that out.

One has a career 117 +/-

One has a career 44 +/-

 

Imagine a Happy motivated  McD on our Team with JTM (being our Mess)

along with our 3rd and 4th lines and Defense (Soucy back) and Demko

we could be a repeat SC team and definitely the favorite

 

McD would be happy knowing he doesn't have to be on 40% of goals for us to win and we'd be like the Oilers of the 80's running up the score anytime we pleased

Canucks would get 1st Franchise cup

McD his only chance at cup out of Edmonton

Edited December 31, 2023 by Ballisticsports

[EdgarM]

28 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

For the record, I don't see EP as a leader either, and McD is obviously more gifted offensively. But. EP is a better 2 way player and if he signs for a reasonable deal will be a great core piece. Can't be the "franchise" forward on a contender, though, so someone needs to figure that out.

Miller is a better 2 way player then Petey. He is far more physical and better along the boards.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

Then he arrived and they still didn't make the playoffs 3 out of the first 4 years with him on board.

 

I just don't like him. Yes, he's brilliant when he gets a head of steam and rabbit hops around the ice with the puck and no one can stop him. And the refs help him with a clear path where no one can intervene (at least initially...he'd look for calls and ... get them).

 

But his team has been a bit of a flop and so is "an" individual worthy of worshipping if he can't help his team get there? Maybe he's too selfish?

 

There's no I in team. Petey's pretty unselfish (too much at times, especially recently). Anyhow, I know my argument's weak and from a homer stance. But I own that. And I'll take Petey any day....I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg in what he's capable of. And his physicality lately is commendable...because he won't be targeted so much (especially with Zadorov in the line up).

 

Anyhow...watching the Oilers vs Kings right now. Haven't even noticed the superstar yet....he's invisible so far. We'll see what I'm missing.

 

 

 

 

McWhiner heard ya Deb lol

[Got the Babych]

39 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

One has a career 117 +/-

One has a career 44 +/-

 

Imagine a Happy motivated  McD on our Team with JTM (being our Mess)

along with our 3rd and 4th lines and Defense (Soucy back) and Demko

we could be a repeat SC team and definitely the favorite

 

McD would be happy knowing he doesn't have to be on 40% of goals for us to win and we'd be like the Oilers of the 80's running up the score anytime we pleased

Canucks would get 1st Franchise cup

McD his only chance at cup out of Edmonton

I can't actually imagine McD being a happy motivated player (or at least looking like one). But there was a time when your most talented player wasn't automatically the captain of your team, and I think that has merit. Being super skilled at your craft often doesn't mean you are also a good leader, so maybe if there was a universe where McD was able to just do his scoring/ diving thing thing and not be expected to take the heat, he could be tolerable.

[Got the Babych]

36 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Miller is a better 2 way player then Petey. He is far more physical and better along the boards.

For sure he is right now. I wasn't saying Petey is the best on the team, just that he is a better 2 way player than McD . But, can't be a contender with either as our "franchise" forwards. Possibly with a group of reasonably paid "star" forwards though.

[GrammaInTheTub]

4 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

I know too little about him but I know the Canucks have shut him down.

 

The criticism against Petey is that he doesn’t produce now. 
But if Petey produce in playoffs so that the cup is ours and McDavid only manages to get through one level.

Who is generational? The player that get a smash or the one who really delivers?

I don’t believe Petey got the same oppurtunity within his team as McDavid got. As I said before, Petey would have got a lot more points per season if he was put in Millers position.

Dude this is a bot for sure 

[GrammaInTheTub]

4 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Yes, McDavid and maybe Bedard is above Petey but I don’t see anyone being above him. Just beside him and who gets more points is more to who they play with and what oppurtunities they get.

I love Petey but this is still a big stretch. 

[6YPE]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:37 AM, IBatch said:

Elite:  " A select group, that is superior in qualities or ability"  

 

So it does at least have the word "superior" in it.    Here is what super as a prefix means, when added to something, in this case "star".  Which i'm pretty sure nobody needs to define. 

 

To me anyways,  a super star, is above and beyond, greater in the extreme degree even, to the other stars.   It's not a statement of are they super compared to the generic NHLer.   It's super compared to their peer group of STARS.    You could take the top 30 in scoring, from the NHL, and call them the star players.   Plus add some more for their two-way play (Horvat for example, is/was a star in his own right as well).   And then do the defense as well, this time considering that their role is to keep the puck out of the net too, and find 30 NHL D's and call them stars.   

 

To be "super" means absolute cream.   Think perennial first and second all-star team selections.    Or if you're looking backwards, take Mario and Gretzky and Orr out (ultimate super-stars, they were super-DUper-stars) and see what's next.  

 

And for D, think Ray Borque.  

Well, he certainly isnt a superstar in my world. There have only been a few and he`s not it, at least he hasnt shown that to me up to this point. He still looks like Bambi out there to me sometimes and that doesnt instill a sense of Eliteness, Superstardom, or anything close. He is for sure an exceptional talent, and maybe one day he will get there, but from my perspective he`s not there yet. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, 6YPE said:

Well, he certainly isnt a superstar in my world. There have only been a few and he`s not it, at least he hasnt shown that to me up to this point. He still looks like Bambi out there to me sometimes and that doesnt instill a sense of Eliteness, Superstardom, or anything close. He is for sure an exceptional talent, and maybe one day he will get there, but from my perspective he`s not there yet. 

For sure his game isn't perfect.   Nothing wrong with being a level below super-star either.    And if folks want to call EP a super-star don't take any offense, trying to politely provide a definition they works for me anyways.    Not initiate anything.    

 

He's no Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic or Sundin, but he's something for sure, and that something is unique.  Alien fits for sure.    He is awfully good, and definitely game breaker ability as well.    Hope he signs for 8, years and can help us win a cup.    And that we respect whatever deal he does sign too.   It would be nice if we can rub away some of the reputation we have, for been so tough on our star players, which for sure he is, his cap hit will be under a mircoscope when it comes out, and the pitchforks ready.    Maybe we should just appreciate what we have and not worry about labels.   We shouldn't use Bambi...get it's frustrating.    Glad he's muscled up somewhat, and is throwing hits.   That's new this year. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by IBatch

[5forFighting]

What's above elite? In my opinion Hughes is closer to McDavid than EP is. There is a reason they made Quinn the captain and not EP, they see/saw something. 

 

McDavid, Matthews, Ovie (prime) are guys that play at a different level. 

 

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

14 hours ago, sxqhfeh said:

JT Miller is outscoring Petey as he has every year except last year(JT's bad season) and he is our 1st line C, Petey is the 2nd line C

Well Jt hasn’t scored in the last 8 games. He needs to pick up his scoring game quite a bit. We are relying way too much on the third line. I still think Petey is better. Jt is much older and still has ups and downs for his age. 

[iceman1964]

EP40 elite? Ummm, if that means a player in the top 20 in the league then yes, top 10? Maybe but probably not, he still tries to score when he has a guy open to pass it to when the other player has a open net, have seen that happen way too much where top 10 players would use that that his possible shot as a perfect decoy and then then pass it off. 

 Is he worth north of 10 mil? Definitely not.. if he wants more than 10 mil, cut him loose and let him go where he wants, we could still do ok with a player who would cost us 7-7.5 mil and use the remaining amount on someone else.

[Ballisticsports]

59 minutes ago, iceman1964 said:

EP40 elite? Ummm, if that means a player in the top 20 in the league then yes, top 10? Maybe but probably not, he still tries to score when he has a guy open to pass it to when the other player has a open net, have seen that happen way too much where top 10 players would use that that his possible shot as a perfect decoy and then then pass it off. 

 Is he worth north of 10 mil? Definitely not.. if he wants more than 10 mil, cut him loose and let him go where he wants, we could still do ok with a player who would cost us 7-7.5 mil and use the remaining amount on someone else.

They seem to have a good grasp on value and unlike the other dude, I think they have a absolute top number and term in mind and will stick to it on what they consider good value for the team, doubtful they have a sign at all costs mentality- Interesting what that number and term might be?

[sxqhfeh]

4 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Well Jt hasn’t scored in the last 8 games. He needs to pick up his scoring game quite a bit. We are relying way too much on the third line. I still think Petey is better. Jt is much older and still has ups and downs for his age. 

JT Miller is the greatest power forward in the NHL and I dare say the poor lad is underpaid. This team would be dirt without the two great American players JT Miller and Quinn Hughes. Can you imagine this team being led by fall down hoping for a fake penalty, turn over the puck, and lose the game Petey? I shudder at the thought. Good thing great man Rick Tocchet from Scarborough refused to give the C to THAT guy

[Got the Babych]

8 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

They seem to have a good grasp on value and unlike the other dude, I think they have a absolute top number and term in mind and will stick to it on what they consider good value for the team, doubtful they have a sign at all costs mentality- Interesting what that number and term might be?

Yeah, that's refreshing. This won't be a "try to stay employed for another season" negotiation, it will be for long term benefit of the team.

[Tusk]

7 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

Yeah, that's refreshing. This won't be a "try to stay employed for another season" negotiation, it will be for long term benefit of the team.

From management perspective it might be give him the qualifying offer of 8.5 and we get him for another year, then as UFA we can talk again

[coolboarder]

Elite to me is a definition of carrying a team on his back whether it be good or bad.   Pettersson has not proven that he is able to do that yet but he will as he has the ability to do it so in near future.  He is not yet McDavid, Matthews, or Crosby level just yet.  He is just below tier.  One or two dominant playoff series will do it and he will have the chance to do that this year that will push 10+ million dollars level.   That is just my take.   If he helps the team more and ability to win the game on his own without a team game then he is totally worth it.  If he cannot do it alone then it is best to take a pay cut to be able to continue help the team win the Cup with more supporting cast.  You do not want to have a player that hamper the team if he cannot do it alone and cause a team to lose their own players to free agent and not enough space to cover any of the hole in different position.  He needs to be dominant to be able to afford losing player and not missing a beat.

[Tusk]

the media and some fans, and agents keep saying Petterson is the first line.

When the line combos come out Petey is the first line.

What real hockey fans have seen is that JT Miller is the first line. If not, state your case here.