Is Pettersson an elite/superstar forward? Is he up there with McDavid, Matthews etc?

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Pettersson was looking like an elite top 5 player last season and to start this year. He's very clearly playing injured (for whatever reason, we'll never know...) and has regressed SIGNIFICANTLY since. He legit hasn't been a threat with the puck in over a month. 

[IBatch]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:48 PM, -dlc- said:

Playing with Draisaitl. Matters.

Yes, especially on the PP.    Do think EDM has done a good job in making sure, both those guys have a wingman, when they load their line, it's because they need a goal (doesn't always work out for them either).   Both of those guys, are top players in the league.    

 

As for EP, agree with a few others (including above) that he's been playing with something, since early Nov, that just hasn't healed properly yet.   Hope this break, and the one coming up at the end of the month, will provide the time he needs to get things back on track.   And as far as star players go,  which of course he is, we should be grateful and happy to have him.   Bure, Sedins, Naslund, Mogilny, EP.     Sure hope he signs, we need him.  

[Heretic]

Biggest difference between Pettersson and McDavid - Ego.  

McDavid's is way bigger!

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group

Yes, Pettersson is an elite NHL player.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Heretic said:

Biggest difference between Pettersson and McDavid - Ego.  

McDavid's is way bigger!

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group

Yes, Pettersson is an elite NHL player.

Gretkzy was so modest it was embarrassing.   Obviously the best player in the league, and after the shock wore off and even his biggest critics (the guys who said he'd be broken in two once he started in the NHL, or that maybe it was a fluke .. or a fluke .. or a fluke ... or a whoopsie maybe this is actually happening!).   McDavid and his girlfriend posted massive video of his ridiculous house.   For sure a difference.    

Edited January 1 by IBatch

[BlueJays]

3 hours ago, Heretic said:

Biggest difference between Pettersson and McDavid - Ego.  

McDavid's is way bigger!

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group

Yes, Pettersson is an elite NHL player.

While I appreciate your passion in their difference in personalities, McDavid is not only many tiers above Pettersson, but simply in a tier of his own. 
 

Even if there is a big gap in egos, there’s an even bigger one in skill. Nothing against Petey, but come on. 

[LaBamba]

If it’s debatable, he isn’t elite. 
You don’t see threads questioning Quinn Hughes greatness. 
Elite gets thrown around too much.
If you’re at the NHL awards You’re elite, not the all star game. 

[Heretic]

2 minutes ago, BlueJays said:

While I appreciate your passion in their difference in personalities, McDavid is not only many tiers above Pettersson, but simply in a tier of his own. 
 

Even if there is a big gap in egos, there’s an even bigger one in skill. Nothing against Petey, but come on. 

I didn't say McDavid wasn't elite, in fact, he's a Superstar.  But compared to other Superstars - he has the biggest ego.

Still, he's no where near Gretzky nor Lemieux:

Most points through 600 career games in NHL history:
Wayne Gretzky: 1,451
Mario Lemieux: 1,215
Mike Bossy: 921
Peter Stastny: 901
Connor McDavid: 897

[Dr. Crossbar]

I'd say he is ...

 

Pelitey

[AatuD2]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:01 PM, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am just wondering how many fans consider Petey an elite forward? I feel like the Canucks have always had strong forwards but ever since Bure who I considered skill wise elite, we haven’t had a superstar since then? Thoughts? It’s weird it been so long since we have had an elite superstar. Hughes a dman is something I consider elite.

 

Quinn Hughes is a superstar to me. 

 

Scott Niedermeyer was a superstar, Quinn is one too. 

 

Petey is elite, but I'd rather have McDavid, MacKinnon, Eichel, Jack Hughes, and probably 2-3 other centers at least. Petey is a top 10 center in terms of current skill and future upside. 

[BlueJays]

33 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I didn't say McDavid wasn't elite, in fact, he's a Superstar.  But compared to other Superstars - he has the biggest ego.

Still, he's no where near Gretzky nor Lemieux:

Most points through 600 career games in NHL history:
Wayne Gretzky: 1,451
Mario Lemieux: 1,215
Mike Bossy: 921
Peter Stastny: 901
Connor McDavid: 897

None of that relevant to the comparison of Pettersson and McDavid. 
 

Seems pretty clear to me you just don’t like McDavid, which I am okay with. But the gap between Pettersson and McDavids skill is far more measurable than “ego”. 

[IBatch]

36 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Quinn Hughes is a superstar to me. 

 

Scott Niedermeyer was a superstar, Quinn is one too. 

 

Petey is elite, but I'd rather have McDavid, MacKinnon, Eichel, Jack Hughes, and probably 2-3 other centers at least. Petey is a top 10 center in terms of current skill and future upside. 

And Scott Niedermeyer was no Ray Borque, or Paul Coffey, but he was special.   

 

Do agree he's a making a great case this year, to be a superstar.   And win a Norris.  And am grateful. 

 

As for EP.   All I want for him, is to sign, and help us win a cup this year, or next year or over the next 8 years.   They don't come around often.  

 

 

Edited January 1 by IBatch

[Ballisticsports]

15 hours ago, Tusk said:

From management perspective it might be give him the qualifying offer of 8.5 and we get him for another year, then as UFA we can talk again

 

If EP was only to sign a 1 yr extension to get to UFA, then I think the Canucks would be looking to trade him,(sooner than later) as he wouldn't be showing he is invested here long term, and they don't want to lose him for nothing walking away for free,

At that point though the Canucks would not be getting back a return that would be of his value (unless they trade with a team which EP has agreed to be traded too with a new contract) - Chances are he wouldn't as he wanted to go to UFA and get best offer from all teams interested and it will be bad news on investment return if he stuck to a 1 yr extension

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

And Scott Niedermeyer was no Ray Borque, or Paul Coffey, but he was special.   

 

Do agree he's a making a great case this year, to be a superstar.   And win a Norris.  And am grateful. 

 

As for EP.   All I want for him, is to sign, and help us win a cup this year, or next year or over the next 8 years.   They don't come around often.  

 

 

IMHAO Bourque was fabulous and in a group of the best D (after Orr) but he didn’t lead a club to the Cup so he is closer to the bottom of those behind Bobby than at the top. 

[Hairy Kneel]

6 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Pettersson was looking like an elite top 5 player last season and to start this year. He's very clearly playing injured (for whatever reason, we'll never know...) and has regressed SIGNIFICANTLY since. He legit hasn't been a threat with the puck in over a month. 

And he keeps trying the wrap arounds.  Which is maybe easier on his wrist than a hard slapper.

[Hairy Kneel]

13 hours ago, Tusk said:

the media and some fans, and agents keep saying Petterson is the first line.

When the line combos come out Petey is the first line.

What real hockey fans have seen is that JT Miller is the first line. If not, state your case here.

What's really strange is given both JT and EP's seasons so far, that they each have a lot of room for improvement.  Which is kind of scary. Petie's wrist heals up, JT finds his shot again. Those two start carrying us through the tough games? I think we may be in for a surprising stretch run. We're going to need all 3 lines going to have a shot in the post season. If those two find their swagger again? Oh boy.

[Heretic]

1 hour ago, BlueJays said:

None of that relevant to the comparison of Pettersson and McDavid. 
 

Seems pretty clear to me you just don’t like McDavid, which I am okay with. But the gap between Pettersson and McDavids skill is far more measurable than “ego”. 

#jealous for sure.

Again, McDavid isn't "elite" - he's above that - so that puts him above Pettersson - not too sure why you aren't getting it.  

Yes, I think McDavid is a whiner and has too big of an ego.  He should just play his game and let that be his legacy.,

[Tusk]

36 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

 

If EP was only to sign a 1 yr extension to get to UFA, then I think the Canucks would be looking to trade him,(sooner than later) as he wouldn't be showing he is invested here long term, and they don't want to lose him for nothing walking away for free,

At that point though the Canucks would not be getting back a return that would be of his value (unless they trade with a team which EP has agreed to be traded too with a new contract) - Chances are he wouldn't as he wanted to go to UFA and get best offer from all teams interested and it will be bad news on investment return if he stuck to a 1 yr extension

If Petey signs the qualifying offer to validate the RFA status for a year, its kinda faith that we would match any UFA offer. I think we would sign him the following year. If he helps us win the cup, he will want to stay for more.

[Tusk]

27 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

What's really strange is given both JT and EP's seasons so far, that they each have a lot of room for improvement.  Which is kind of scary. Petie's wrist heals up, JT finds his shot again. Those two start carrying us through the tough games? I think we may be in for a surprising stretch run. We're going to need all 3 lines going to have a shot in the post season. If those two find their swagger again? Oh boy.

At least all the other top teams are studying the Garlund/Joshua lines to figure out how to beat us.

[TheGuardian]

48 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

 

If EP was only to sign a 1 yr extension to get to UFA, then I think the Canucks would be looking to trade him,(sooner than later) as he wouldn't be showing he is invested here long term, and they don't want to lose him for nothing walking away for free,

At that point though the Canucks would not be getting back a return that would be of his value (unless they trade with a team which EP has agreed to be traded too with a new contract) - Chances are he wouldn't as he wanted to go to UFA and get best offer from all teams interested and it will be bad news on investment return if he stuck to a 1 yr extension

I think if EP doesn't sign by the draft then Rutherford/Allvin should try to get one of the top picks in this year's draft and trade his rights ASAP.

Before the story gets told that he wants out.

Before the draft though because then they will know what the pick will be especially if it is one of the top three.

 

Rumour about Chicago being involved? They could offer sheet him. Four 1rst round picks would not be hard for them and they have the cap space.

Columbus is in the same position.

Take the picks or make a trade?

 

It makes sense that he would not want a long term deal right now as the cap will go up by 9 to 12 million over the next 3 years, except for the Canucks who have that 10+ million in OEL buyouts to contend with.

[Ballisticsports]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

I think if EP doesn't sign by the draft then Rutherford/Allvin should try to get one of the top picks in this year's draft and trade his rights ASAP.

Before the story gets told that he wants out.

Before the draft though because then they will know what the pick will be especially if it is one of the top three.

 

Rumour about Chicago being involved? They could offer sheet him. Four 1rst round picks would not be hard for them and they have the cap space.

Columbus is in the same position.

Take the picks or make a trade?

 

It makes sense that he would not want a long term deal right now as the cap will go up by 9 to 12 million over the next 3 years, except for the Canucks who have that 10+ million in OEL buyouts to contend with.

 

It would make since if he wanted to be a part of this team

Hard to say for sure about $9-$12, but we do know that next years cap increases to $4 million (which EP won't get it all)

Didn't JTM sign for 9.5% of cap? (or something like that)?

Even if they gave him 12% that is under $500,000 of that $4 million he'd get

With how much talk of him wanting to be on a cup contender, his cap % will matter

 

We are just having fun guessing scenarios, but I am sure behind closed doors the plan to sign or move is being done already before time runs out to get full value either way 

 

Playing the scenario that the Canucks already know  EP will ONLY sign a 1 yr contract to take him to UFA as soon as possible (without resigning with Canucks or ANY team before that)

The Canucks automatically lose full value moving him (teams will be aware of this)

 

Do they keep and hope for good playoff run ?

or move him at TDL even though the team might be at top, but maximise his return at that point? (with trading team having 2 shots with him)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't position they could be in that scenario

 

Chances are if he won't commit to be a part of your team beyond 1 extra year  that you have to move on from him to at least get something

Either way we will till have a Elias Pettersson on the team in 5 yrs  (depends on if 1 or 2 of them)

[LillStrimma]

Talk about fickle fans. 
You really want to be miserable…  Stab your own players in the back asap.

 

Tell me wich team that can trade away picks or players to replace either Hughes or Petey? 
Can you find one team you will be GM of the century. 
So stop imgaine impossible things only for the chance to be miserable again. 

[Got the Babych]

https://theathletic.com/4863183/2023/09/18/nhl-best-players-list-2023-2024-season/

 

Actually hadn't seen this article, but it's a pretty well thought out list. Obviously lots of arguments can be made for players being a tier up or down from these rankings, but the cohorts are decent. It's from September, so some players may have changed, but EP has definitely not proven he should be higher so far this year.

 

The company he has in the tier (2B) is accurate, even if the actual tiers are debatable. Aho, Barkov, Point, Eichel--all centers, similar age, and similar stats. Seem like reasonable comparables to me. As players that is. Contracts are comparables, but obviously need to be weighted somewhat depending on when they were signed.

 

The list is flawed for sure, but are we mostly in agreement with those players as comparables, or are people still talking about EP being in the McDavid/ Matthews stratosphere (as the OP is asking)?

 

Just looking to find some common ground/ parameters if this thread is going to go on for months!

[6YPE]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:25 AM, IBatch said:

For sure his game isn't perfect.   Nothing wrong with being a level below super-star either.    And if folks want to call EP a super-star don't take any offense, trying to politely provide a definition they works for me anyways.    Not initiate anything.    

 

He's no Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic or Sundin, but he's something for sure, and that something is unique.  Alien fits for sure.    He is awfully good, and definitely game breaker ability as well.    Hope he signs for 8, years and can help us win a cup.    And that we respect whatever deal he does sign too.   It would be nice if we can rub away some of the reputation we have, for been so tough on our star players, which for sure he is, his cap hit will be under a mircoscope when it comes out, and the pitchforks ready.    Maybe we should just appreciate what we have and not worry about labels.   We shouldn't use Bambi...get it's frustrating.    Glad he's muscled up somewhat, and is throwing hits.   That's new this year. 

Oh, I didnt say he was crap, the question was do "I" think he's elite, is he up there with McDavid and Matthews, my opinion is no, I never said he was Bambi, where did I say that?? I said I thought he fell down too much and wasn't strong enough to be called "elite" in MY opinion. In fact I said maybe he'll get there one day. You make it sound like I said he's trash and I never said anything close to that, I also never said I didnt appreciate him and I never labeled him, so I dont get it bro.... everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wasn't arguing with anyone. In my opinion he's not in the same boat as those other guys, is that cool man? 

Edited January 2 by 6YPE

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, 6YPE said:

Oh, I didnt say he was crap, the question was do "I" think he's elite, is he up there with McDavid and Matthews, my opinion is no, I never said he was Bambi, where did I say that?? I said I thought he fell down too much and wasn't strong enough to be called "elite" in MY opinion. In fact I said maybe he'll get there one day. You make it sound like I said he's trash and I never said anything close to that, I also never said I didnt appreciate him and I never labeled him, so I dont get it bro.... everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wasn't arguing with anyone. In my opinion he's not in the same boat as those other guys, is that cool man? 

No, just that he's been falling all over the ice like "Bambi", the last month...this is a discussion if he's a super-star etc,  not yet anyways.    And that's absolutely ok.  He's still elite, and he's still our star, and he's a key part of the team.  

 

It's really  the same thing as calling the Sedins "sissie's - Sisters - soft " etc etc etc.   Just a different slight, well to anyone who's watched the Disney movie, Bambi is more than a baby deer, falling all over.   Like I said, i get that it's frustrating, in the same way the Sedins had a difficult time adjusting to the dead puck era, NHL, if they only peaked when the WCE express was going, we'd have a couple cups, even with Cloutier in net, or Skudra or whomever.    A lot of players also had a really tough time back then, including star players.   Zubov at 37 exploding for 71 points.   Alfie and Sakic scoring over 100, at ages 34 and 37, Jagr and Thornton having a field day after the lockout, and the Sedins gaining the space they needed from the Hatchers and Ludwig's, who didn't last long at all.

 

 That was a rep, that followed them around, all the way to when Torts was here, to the point he addressed almost right away, taking a big stab at our media, saying they weren't "soft" and were "tough", it was a reputation that he assumed...and he's an NHL coach!.  

 

Torts letting the media to be accountable off the hop,  and did it classy, but was also bluntly telling them to cut it out, and that he wouldn't be putting up with that either (has a legendary rep with protecting his players, at every stop, especially NYR, as far as the media is concerned).    When we say stuff like that, it persists.    It's a realization i've had, and probably been just as bad at times too, so have been part of the problem at times too.    Trying to do better as a stakeholder.    Peace!  If I replied to the wrong poster (didn't go back), then sincere apologies.   

 

The point is, we don't have to pick on our stars, and as stakeholders, if we do better as a whole, that's something the players could consider when choosing their legacy spot.   You can bet that some of the guys on the team, do social media.    This is the platform for the team.   Albeit unofficial, if anything it's more honest too which is fine.   Peace!   I'm sure some of his "falling down" is deliberate, nice way to draw a penalty, as well.   

[Bob Long]

12 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Talk about fickle fans. 
You really want to be miserable…  Stab your own players in the back asap.

 

Tell me wich team that can trade away picks or players to replace either Hughes or Petey? 
Can you find one team you will be GM of the century. 
So stop imgaine impossible things only for the chance to be miserable again. 

 

It's cute that you think the opinion of fans has any effect on this. 

 

Right now it's Petey who is waiting. Most fans and the team management want him signed asap.