Is Pettersson an elite/superstar forward? Is he up there with McDavid, Matthews etc?

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

No, just that he's been falling all over the ice like "Bambi", the last month...this is a discussion if he's a super-star etc,  not yet anyways.    And that's absolutely ok.  He's still elite, and he's still our star, and he's a key part of the team.  

 

It's really  the same thing as calling the Sedins "sissie's - Sisters - soft " etc etc etc.   Just a different slight, well to anyone who's watched the Disney movie, Bambi is more than a baby deer, falling all over.   Like I said, i get that it's frustrating, in the same way the Sedins had a difficult time adjusting to the dead puck era, NHL, if they only peaked when the WCE express was going, we'd have a couple cups, even with Cloutier in net, or Skudra or whomever.    A lot of players also had a really tough time back then, including star players.   Zubov at 37 exploding for 71 points.   Alfie and Sakic scoring over 100, at ages 34 and 37, Jagr and Thornton having a field day after the lockout, and the Sedins gaining the space they needed from the Hatchers and Ludwig's, who didn't last long at all.

 

 That was a rep, that followed them around, all the way to when Torts was here, to the point he addressed almost right away, taking a big stab at our media, saying they weren't "soft" and were "tough", it was a reputation that he assumed...and he's an NHL coach!.  

 

Torts letting the media to be accountable off the hop,  and did it classy, but was also bluntly telling them to cut it out, and that he wouldn't be putting up with that either (has a legendary rep with protecting his players, at every stop, especially NYR, as far as the media is concerned).    When we say stuff like that, it persists.    It's a realization i've had, and probably been just as bad at times too, so have been part of the problem at times too.    Trying to do better as a stakeholder.    Peace!  If I replied to the wrong poster (didn't go back), then sincere apologies.   

 

The point is, we don't have to pick on our stars, and as stakeholders, if we do better as a whole, that's something the players could consider when choosing their legacy spot.   You can bet that some of the guys on the team, do social media.    This is the platform for the team.   Albeit unofficial, if anything it's more honest too which is fine.   Peace!   I'm sure some of his "falling down" is deliberate, nice way to draw a penalty, as well.   

 

what is the fan base as a whole supposed to do about it? if we're going to be labelled by the worst of our fanbase then we're doomed from the start. 

 

[LillStrimma]

14 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's cute that you think the opinion of fans has any effect on this. 

 

Right now it's Petey who is waiting. Most fans and the team management want him signed asap.

What I find interesting is that someone insanely believe that they can replace Petey in a trade.

 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

What I find interesting is that someone insanely believe that they can replace Petey in a trade.

 

 

you might be able to do it in terms of a kid with similar potential and hope he develops. But no, it would be trading for increasing strengths in other areas.

 

I'm just a bit concerned as to why its taking so long. I think its Petey's agent, he's known to push the limits. Does his agent want the option of a Petey holdout? an offer sheet? what? 

[CanuckMan]

Most people agree that Mcdavid is better than Petterson. So if Mcdavid gets 12.5 mil a year, I don’t think Petey should get any more than 11 mil. If he was a team player like Mackinnon was, and actually wants to win then he should take 10 mil and leave some money on the table to add to the team. 
 

one thing I’ve noticed. There’s a lot of players out there that never win the cup. Wouldn’t it make sense one year for all the UFA’s of that year to sign 1 year small dollar deals and load up a team just to win the cup. Yes they’d have to leave a lot of money on the table. But they would win the cup. Stack a team so much it would be impossible to lose.

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, CanuckMan said:

Most people agree that Mcdavid is better than Petterson. So if Mcdavid gets 12.5 mil a year, I don’t think Petey should get any more than 11 mil. If he was a team player like Mackinnon was, and actually wants to win then he should take 10 mil and leave some money on the table to add to the team. 
 

one thing I’ve noticed. There’s a lot of players out there that never win the cup. Wouldn’t it make sense one year for all the UFA’s of that year to sign 1 year small dollar deals and load up a team just to win the cup. Yes they’d have to leave a lot of money on the table. But they would win the cup. Stack a team so much it would be impossible to lose.

No way at this point should Pettersson make 500k less than McDavid 10-11 MAX and closer to the 10 

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

No way at this point should Pettersson make 500k less than McDavid 10-11 MAX and closer to the 10 

 

Problem is, his agent probably doesn't see it that way. 

 

I hope this doesn't drag on because Peteys agent doesn't give two hot shits about hurting Peteys rep with the fans.

 

Last thing we need is more drama.

Edited January 2 by Bob Long

[higgyfan]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:57 PM, sxqhfeh said:

JT Miller is outscoring Petey as he has every year except last year(JT's bad season) and he is our 1st line C, Petey is the 2nd line C

 

Have a look at JT's 1st five season and then compare them to Petey's.  Not pretty is it?

JT didn't become a great player until he came to Vancouver, when at 26yrs he became

 a pt per game player for the 1st time ever!  Jeep in mind that EP came back from the

year he was injured with a 32g performance at 23yrs.

 

Petey hasn't had his 26th birthday yet, but last year he managed he had 39g - 63a -102pts.

 

So now Petey is centering a line that has a slumping Kuzy and an injury prone Mik, who has

only once scored 20gs in his 5yr career.  Meanwhile, the line is being backed up by Myers

and Zadorav managed 2gs between them, yet Pete is 3rd in points, just 5pts behind JT.

It's pitiful that some Canuck fans are using this season as an example of what his value

to the team should be. 

 

I can't understand how other fans think that the can Canucks replace ET in a trade.  I'm

sorry Canuck fans, but Huberdeau (even at 50% retained) will not do the job.  In 12 years, he

has only managed two 30g seasons and his only Petey like season was his last year in

Florida, which was obviously a fluke.  Basically, he's never been all that good, but Cal

paid him way too much $ for that one season.  He's basically a 30yr old 3rd line Center.

Adding Andersson doesn't make it anywhere near a good trade for the Canucks.

[Devron]

Only thought I have is no one should be grouped with McDavid

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Problem is, his agent probably doesn't see it that way. 

 

I hope this doesn't drag on because Peteys agent doesn't give two hot shits about hurting Peteys rep with the fans.

 

Last thing we need is more drama.

Don't care what his agent thinks he's not remotely in McDavid territory at all. Not until he's consistently almost single handedly dragging a team into the playoffs he's not that guy.

Edited January 2 by canuck73_3

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

Have a look at JT's 1st five season and then compare them to Petey's.  Not pretty is it?

JT didn't become a great player until he came to Vancouver, when at 26yrs he became

 a pt per game player for the 1st time ever!  Jeep in mind that EP came back from the

year he was injured with a 32g performance at 23yrs.

 

Petey hasn't had his 26th birthday yet, but last year he managed he had 39g - 63a -102pts.

 

So now Petey is centering a line that has a slumping Kuzy and an injury prone Mik, who has

only once scored 20gs in his 5yr career.  Meanwhile, the line is being backed up by Myers

and Zadorav managed 2gs between them, yet Pete is 3rd in points, just 5pts behind JT.

It's pitiful that some Canuck fans are using this season as an example of what his value

to the team should be. 

 

I can't understand how other fans think that the can Canucks replace ET in a trade.  I'm

sorry Canuck fans, but Huberdeau (even at 50% retained) will not do the job.  In 12 years, he

has only managed two 30g seasons and his only Petey like season was his last year in

Florida, which was obviously a fluke.  Basically, he's never been all that good, but Cal

paid him way too much $ for that one season.  He's basically a 30yr old 3rd line Center.

Adding Andersson doesn't make it anywhere near a good trade for the Canucks.

 If you're interested, all the line combo's, since EP and Millers first season with us are available.    Funny how EP was considered the driving force , behind the lotto line, and once he left Brock was poop.   Miller's 99 point season can't be ignored either.   The poster your replying to, is correct in saying Millers been the better player during that span, and your correct in saying EP had a way better start to his career.     PDG.   Versus Lafferty.  A Poop Brock, versus Ilya M.   I don't like doing this, the fans already did it with Horvat (and we're definitely wrong).     Let's not do this with Miller and EP.   They both offer different things.    
 

100% agree we won't replace him.   Same way we didn't replace Bure.    And Jovo was my favourite player during the WCE era.   Hedican too though ... yikes. 

Edited January 2 by IBatch

[higgyfan]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If you're going to do this, make it accurate.   If you're interested, all the line combo's, since EP and Millers first season with us are available.    Funny how EP was considered the driving force , behind the lotto line, and once he left Brock was poop.   Miller's 99 point season can't be ignored either.   The poster your replying to, is correct in saying Millers been the better player during that span, and your correct in saying EP had a way better start to his career.     PDG.   Versus Lafferty.  A Poop Brock, versus Ilya M.   I don't like doing this, the fans already did it with Horvat (and we're definitely wrong).     Let's not do this with Miller and EP.   They both offer different things.    
 

100% agree we won't replace him.   Same way we didn't replace Bure.    And Jovo was my favourite player during the WCE era.   Hedican too though ... yikes. 

 

I'm not saying Petey is a better player than Miller right now.  I am saying that Petey is still developing

his game and will continue to improve; he's just nearing his peak years.  Similar to Miller was when

he joined the Canucks.  Can you imagine what JT's contract would be like if he were 25 at the time?

 

Once the team has a full complement of top 6 wingers and a top 4d that has offensive/defensive IQ,

this team will become a contender.  With a so-called ET replacement C, I think the team takes a

step backwards. 

[Mac]

Petey still falls down way too easily. I do not put him in the same league as guys like McJesus.

 

He does not look very strong sometimes, yet other times, he lays some half decent checks.

 

[iceman1964]

Hmmm Bettman the bonehead announced 4.2 mil cap raise for next season, glad the escrow is paid down and the dead cap era appears to be over, just in time actually, wish it had happened sooner as it really hurt us where we were at in the build, re-tool, whatever the F you want to call it but better late than never! 

 I sure hope we use it to shore up the backend end while we wait for Willander and D-petey to acclimate to NA game speed and rink size plus Myers and Garland off the books is really going to help our cause.

 Side note, still pretty stoked about the snarl of D-petey's game, a added bonus to be sure!

[6YPE]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

No, just that he's been falling all over the ice like "Bambi", the last month...this is a discussion if he's a super-star etc,  not yet anyways.    And that's absolutely ok.  He's still elite, and he's still our star, and he's a key part of the team.  

 

It's really  the same thing as calling the Sedins "sissie's - Sisters - soft " etc etc etc.   Just a different slight, well to anyone who's watched the Disney movie, Bambi is more than a baby deer, falling all over.   Like I said, i get that it's frustrating, in the same way the Sedins had a difficult time adjusting to the dead puck era, NHL, if they only peaked when the WCE express was going, we'd have a couple cups, even with Cloutier in net, or Skudra or whomever.    A lot of players also had a really tough time back then, including star players.   Zubov at 37 exploding for 71 points.   Alfie and Sakic scoring over 100, at ages 34 and 37, Jagr and Thornton having a field day after the lockout, and the Sedins gaining the space they needed from the Hatchers and Ludwig's, who didn't last long at all.

 

 That was a rep, that followed them around, all the way to when Torts was here, to the point he addressed almost right away, taking a big stab at our media, saying they weren't "soft" and were "tough", it was a reputation that he assumed...and he's an NHL coach!.  

 

Torts letting the media to be accountable off the hop,  and did it classy, but was also bluntly telling them to cut it out, and that he wouldn't be putting up with that either (has a legendary rep with protecting his players, at every stop, especially NYR, as far as the media is concerned).    When we say stuff like that, it persists.    It's a realization i've had, and probably been just as bad at times too, so have been part of the problem at times too.    Trying to do better as a stakeholder.    Peace!  If I replied to the wrong poster (didn't go back), then sincere apologies.   

 

The point is, we don't have to pick on our stars, and as stakeholders, if we do better as a whole, that's something the players could consider when choosing their legacy spot.   You can bet that some of the guys on the team, do social media.    This is the platform for the team.   Albeit unofficial, if anything it's more honest too which is fine.   Peace!   I'm sure some of his "falling down" is deliberate, nice way to draw a penalty, as well.   

Bro, I never called him Bambi, I said in my opinion he isn't elite, I think he's a great player and will probably only get better and maybe one day get to what I believe is elite status. Maybe go have words with people who are calling him names etc and stop giving it to me because I never said any of that stuff.

[higgyfan]

25 minutes ago, Mac said:

Petey still falls down way too easily. I do not put him in the same league as guys like McJesus.

 

He does not look very strong sometimes, yet other times, he lays some half decent checks.

 

 

Anyone that thinks ET is in the same league as McDavid, is likely new to hockey.

He's still developing, so will likely end up more of an elite player with superstar

potential.

 

I think ET falls down when he is trying too hard to be a Selke type player.  He's worked

hard on his defensive game and it shows, but I don't know if he'll ever reach the level

of a Selke winner. 

[LillStrimma]

6 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

you might be able to do it in terms of a kid with similar potential and hope he develops. But no, it would be trading for increasing strengths in other areas.

 

I'm just a bit concerned as to why its taking so long. I think its Petey's agent, he's known to push the limits. Does his agent want the option of a Petey holdout? an offer sheet? what? 

But we haven’t the concern about other areas now. Maybe instantly but a trade will not be an instant upgrade since it’s picks involved. 
Since we got a lot of prospects close we’re fins. 
The agent and Allvin will probably wait til they know more about the future regarding cap.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

But we haven’t the concern about other areas now. Maybe instantly but a trade will not be an instant upgrade since it’s picks involved. 
Since we got a lot of prospects close we’re fins. 
The agent and Allvin will probably wait til they know more about the future regarding cap.

 

We pretty much know already the cap will be up about 4 mil. 

 

He's got an agent that is happy to have guys hold out. Its a shame that there are agents willing to really screw player reputations. 

[LillStrimma]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

We pretty much know already the cap will be up about 4 mil. 

 

He's got an agent that is happy to have guys hold out. Its a shame that there are agents willing to really screw player reputations. 

Well, we had an asshole as GM before Allvin so it might have scared players also… The agents isn’t the only negative sometimes.

[LillStrimma]

6 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

Most people agree that Mcdavid is better than Petterson. So if Mcdavid gets 12.5 mil a year, I don’t think Petey should get any more than 11 mil. If he was a team player like Mackinnon was, and actually wants to win then he should take 10 mil and leave some money on the table to add to the team. 
 

one thing I’ve noticed. There’s a lot of players out there that never win the cup. Wouldn’t it make sense one year for all the UFA’s of that year to sign 1 year small dollar deals and load up a team just to win the cup. Yes they’d have to leave a lot of money on the table. But they would win the cup. Stack a team so much it would be impossible to lose.

Isn’t McDavid supposed to get over 15/16 mill next contract? 
If Petey get 8 years for 12 it’s cheap and his agent knows that.

That means around four mill more for McDavid.

 

Or how do you count? Five years back in time? 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Well, we had an asshole as GM before Allvin so it might have scared players also… The agents isn’t the only negative sometimes.

 

so true, 'lil, we did have an incompetent gm. 

 

I love Petey and just hope he gets to it soon. I don't want to see things go negative here for him, but these agents today know how to manipulate a fan base to put pressure on GMs. I really dislike the modern agent side of the business. 

 

[CanuckMan]

3 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Isn’t McDavid supposed to get over 15/16 mill next contract? 
If Petey get 8 years for 12 it’s cheap and his agent knows that.

That means around four mill more for McDavid.

 

Or how do you count? Five years back in time? 

Mcdavid is still signed for 2 more years after this season. A lot can happen in 2 years. Mathews got 13.25 for 4 years. Mathew’s is a consistent 40-50 goal scorer. Peteys never hit 40. Mathew’s is consistently 50% or more in faceoff percentage, Petey has never hit 50% average over a whole season. 
So in that regard if Peterson gets a 4 year deal I would do 12 mil/year. If it’s 6-8 year deal it should be 11 mil/year. Not sure why you would hope for a higher cap hit, it would only hurt the team. I’m hoping for as low as possible. 11 mil per year would be fair 

[-Buzzsaw-]

No, Pettersson is not at the same level as Richard, Howe, Orr, Lafleur, Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Ovie, Crosby or McDavid.  You can number those guys on the fingers of your hand.  Those guys changed the league and dominated it.

 

He is second tier superstar, which means he is approximately projected to be on the level of either Sedin, Mathews, Marner, Kane, Thornton, Bergeron, Kopitar, etc.

 

Just how good he's going to be is still to be seen.  Injuries, lack of linemates, poor coaching.... could all affect his impact.

 

Even if he is 2nd tier, he is still an incredible player to have on the team... and we are lucky to have him.  Without him, this team would not be the same.

[J-23]

McDavid is one of the best players ever, it’s unfair to compare any player in today’s game to him. 

 

I think Pettersson can reach MacKinnon and Matthews level, but he’s still got a lot of work to do. When Pettersson is playing at his best, he can compete with these guys.

 

My biggest concern with Pettersson right now is scoring. He could easily be a 50 goal scorer in my opinion. Has one of the best shots in the league.

[LillStrimma]

20 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

Mcdavid is still signed for 2 more years after this season. A lot can happen in 2 years. Mathews got 13.25 for 4 years. Mathew’s is a consistent 40-50 goal scorer. Peteys never hit 40. Mathew’s is consistently 50% or more in faceoff percentage, Petey has never hit 50% average over a whole season. 
So in that regard if Peterson gets a 4 year deal I would do 12 mil/year. If it’s 6-8 year deal it should be 11 mil/year. Not sure why you would hope for a higher cap hit, it would only hurt the team. I’m hoping for as low as possible. 11 mil per year would be fair 

I don’t hope for anything, either up or down. I’m realistic.

I know that both Petey and his agent knows his value so fans trying to diminish Petey as soon as they can is just ridiculus and doesn’t do anything good.

If it was a realistic discussion I’m fine with it but talking 10 mill, trade him for four firsts or something silly like that I’m out.

[-Buzzsaw-]

If you want to talk greatest every... SUPERSTAR... then there are really only 4.

 

Comparing Pettersson to them is stupid.

 

Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux.

 

Ask Gretzky who the greatest player ever, he'll still say Howe... and he is not being modest, he believes that.  If you want to get an idea of how good Howe was, then imagine Tom Wilson leading the league in scoring and putting up the '50's equivalent of 130 pts, while kicking the shit out of everyone who looks at him sideways and being just as dirty as is possible.  And imagine him doing that for 20 years in a row, while winning 4 Cups, multiple Art Ross, Rocket Richard and being a perenial allstar... his last appearance at age 52.  Back in the 50's, it was hard to get points... especially when there were only 70 games a season.  Yet he still sits up there at #3 in the all time scoring... Messier only just squeezed past him despite playing nearly as many games and putting up his points in the high scoring era.  And Howe's WHL points have never been counted...  add them and its no contest.

 

Orr revolutionized the game... before him, D-Men just didn't do what he did...  He could absolutely dominate a game on his own... completely control the pace... the only reason he is not up there with the highest scoring players in history is that his knees went at an early age.  Cherry may be a big mouth, but when he says the best player he ever saw was Orr, then he is telling the truth.

 

Gretzky did play in the era of high scores, but he also was revolutionary... in how he used his hockey IQ... (never been rivaled) and high level skills, as well as his team members to pile up the points and goals.  Some say he was lucky to be on the Oilers... but when he moved to LA, he created a similar energy and turned that team into a scoring machine too.

 

Lemieux was perhaps the most gifted physically of all four... when he wanted, he could skate and stick handle through any defense and any team and score... but he was also unlucky like Orr, in that he suffered from back problems, not to mention the cancer.  Without those crippling him, he probably would have beaten Gretzky's records.

 

Everyone else is at a lower level.  There is no shame for Pettersson being where he is.

Edited January 3 by -Buzzsaw-