NucksIn50 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 14 hours ago, CanuckMan said: Benning was no better. I would say he was almost worst due to his longevity. lol naaah in no way am I saying Benning was good… I will say this, Dubas and Treliving take the award for worse especially Dubas as GM in Toronto… Leafs with all the hype, all the spending, all the Contender talk, all the playoff disappointments, it’s safe to say Benning comes in 3rd ( we just can’t win anything it’s a curse ) Out with the old in with the new CDC, Happy New Year all the best in 24! Go Canucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, NucksIn50 said: lol naaah in no way am I saying Benning was good… I will say this, Dubas and Treliving take the award for worse especially Dubas as GM in Toronto… Leafs with all the hype, all the spending, all the Contender talk, all the playoff disappointments, it’s safe to say Benning comes in 3rd ( we just can’t win anything it’s a curse ) Out with the old in with the new CDC, Happy New Year all the best in 24! Go Canucks! Yeah, I think that's completely the wrong way to look at things. The primary job of any GM is to actually just get their team into the playoffs. Under most circumstances, a GM will only get fired when their team fails in the regular season. To that end, Dubas never failed to deliver. Look at Vancouver. Nonis got fired because the team didn't make the playoffs. Gillis got fired because the team didn't make the playoffs. Benning got fired because the team didn't make the playoffs. Look at Toronto too. Ferguson fired. Burke fired. Nonis fired. People here ridicule Dubas for his playoff woes but he always gave Toronto a fighting chance every year. That's the first and most important hurdle of any GM. The counterpoint to this is that Dubas inherited a highly talented core and failed to improve the team despite having high expectations on paper. But you can say the exact same thing about Benning's Canucks. Tons of talent, and mismanaged to oblivion. Benning couldn't even win regular season games. Fans here have this idea that the regular season is meaningless. It's not. The regular season is exactly why the Canucks have barely competed in the playoffs this past decade. Your one job as general manager is to get enough wins to earn a playoff spot, and if you fail to do that, you're probably getting fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, PureQuickness said: Not exactly logical, considering many of his roster choices are core pieces used by Allvin. What Allvin did initially was a mess (in his first year), but he quickly learned from his mistakes there (this year). Pre-Allvin players like Garland have turned out to be VERY serviceable, along with Allvin's additions in Joshua and (later Blueger). Other Benning players include Hoglander, besides Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko. Benning sure made a lot of mistakes, but the amount of criticism that he gets while ignoring his contributions to the current team, is dishonest commentary. Imagine hating someone so much that you'd gloss over certain points because it doesn't fit your narrative. I think what a lot of fans are upset about is that yes, while Benning did make contributions to the team (Hughes, Pettersson, etc), he's made a lot of moves that still haunt this team today. We're still paying for the OEL situation for the next several years, and even if we didn't buy him out, that contract was horrible on the team. What about Beagle, and the likes of players like him that Benning terribly overpaid for? Myers for 6 years, we're still on the hook for that deal, and it wasn't until Tocchet's arrival that his game settled down a bit. So yeah, I think some fans have every right to be upset given that the team we cheer for, has missed the playoffs 7-8 years that Benning was GM, and that one year, the team almost didn't make it either. So he deserves the criticism he received. He deserves the praise for drafting some good players, and acquiring Miller, but he's made far more mistakes during his time here. Add to what was going on behind the scenes, and well, he didn't create a culture where the organization could thrive. Players were upset. If he's still here today, I don't think Petey's here to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, nergish said: Crazy to think that Samsonov was such a high draft pick and comes from the same wave of Russian goaltending that gave us Shesty, Vasi, and Sorokin. Was never that impressed with him, and clearly he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to be an NHL starter. Could be a very good backup though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/31/2023 at 12:18 PM, Miss Korea said: Treliving had 16 million to make upgrades over the summer and he put it all on offense. All of it. Imagine if he were like Allvin and put it all on defense instead. TROLOLOliving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: I think what a lot of fans are upset about is that yes, while Benning did make contributions to the team (Hughes, Pettersson, etc), he's made a lot of moves that still haunt this team today. We're still paying for the OEL situation for the next several years, and even if we didn't buy him out, that contract was horrible on the team. What about Beagle, and the likes of players like him that Benning terribly overpaid for? Myers for 6 years, we're still on the hook for that deal, and it wasn't until Tocchet's arrival that his game settled down a bit. So yeah, I think some fans have every right to be upset given that the team we cheer for, has missed the playoffs 7-8 years that Benning was GM, and that one year, the team almost didn't make it either. So he deserves the criticism he received. He deserves the praise for drafting some good players, and acquiring Miller, but he's made far more mistakes during his time here. Add to what was going on behind the scenes, and well, he didn't create a culture where the organization could thrive. Players were upset. If he's still here today, I don't think Petey's here to be honest. OEL is 100% on the new management group 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwarrior Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 So did these guys clear waivers or what? I haven't heard a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, gwarrior said: So did these guys clear waivers or what? I haven't heard a thing. Correct. Both have cleared waivers and have reported to the AHL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwarrior Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Correct. Both have cleared waivers and have reported to the AHL. Ok, thanks. I thought it was odd that I saw nothing. But it is new years day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 hours ago, stawns said: OEL is 100% on the new management group OEL was acquired a year and a half before JR and PA got here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Coryberg said: OEL was acquired a year and a half before JR and PA got here. He's not talking about the trade. He's talking about the buyout decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whorvat Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 hours ago, PureQuickness said: He's not talking about the trade. He's talking about the buyout decision. You don't get to a buyout decision without the trade. No idea how you can pin this on new regime, they made a calculated business decision to cut bait from a previous regime error. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 41 minutes ago, Whorvat said: You don't get to a buyout decision without the trade. No idea how you can pin this on new regime, they made a calculated business decision to cut bait from a previous regime error. Exactly, they made the decision and made the move. They could have waited, see how OEL plays in an actual defensive system, then decide. Now they've got 6 years of carrying that weight 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whorvat Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 12 minutes ago, stawns said: Exactly, they made the decision and made the move. They could have waited, see how OEL plays in an actual defensive system, then decide. Now they've got 6 years of carrying that weight Obviously new coach had a lot to do with that decisive move. We're tops of the division at the strike of the new year, seems like it was the right one. Now I wait for you to argue how OEL would have us even higher in the standings, somehow 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Whorvat said: You don't get to a buyout decision without the trade. No idea how you can pin this on new regime, they made a calculated business decision to cut bait from a previous regime error. Yup. Benning (giving in to the owner as he always did) made a very bad trade. New management cleared up part of that Benning mess with the OElevator buyout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 minutes ago, Whorvat said: Obviously new coach had a lot to do with that decisive move. We're tops of the division at the strike of the new year, seems like it was the right one. Now I wait for you to argue how OEL would have us even higher in the standings, somehow Well, he's having a great year in Fla, so fair to say he'd probably been ok here. Regardless, by making that move, they own the OEL fallout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Whorvat said: You don't get to a buyout decision without the trade. No idea how you can pin this on new regime, they made a calculated business decision to cut bait from a previous regime error. 25 minutes ago, Whorvat said: Obviously new coach had a lot to do with that decisive move. We're tops of the division at the strike of the new year, seems like it was the right one. Now I wait for you to argue how OEL would have us even higher in the standings, somehow That "calculated business decision" was entirely their calculation and their choice. And of course it looks like a good idea this year. It's the 4.8 million in dead cap next year and the year after that concerns most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said: That "calculated business decision" was entirely their calculation and their choice. And of course it looks like a good idea this year. It's the 4.8 million in dead cap next year and the year after that concerns most people. Next season's OEL dead cap is $2,346,667- the 2 following years it goes up to $4,766,667 so it is 2025 and 2026 seasons that are going to be a bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, stawns said: Well, he's having a great year in Fla, so fair to say he'd probably been ok here. Regardless, by making that move, they own the OEL fallout. That's a very, VERY weak argument to make and you know it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 43 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: That's a very, VERY weak argument to make and you know it. Disagree, he likely would have been just as good in Van under Tocchet. Also, the discussion about who owns the OEL situation now, not whether he'd be good in Van or not. As soon as they decided to take on 6 years of dead cap, it became their issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Gurn said: Next season's OEL dead cap is $2,346,667- the 2 following years it goes up to $4,766,667 so it is 2025 and 2026 seasons that are going to be a bigger problem. New management, unlike Benning, is a lot like the great Gillis and they plan ahead. Willander will be here on his elc for the two highest OElevator cap costs. So we dumped a Benning mistake and will have Willander playing. Great job by our management group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Gurn said: Next season's OEL dead cap is $2,346,667- the 2 following years it goes up to $4,766,667 so it is 2025 and 2026 seasons that are going to be a bigger problem. Oh yeah, I just glanced at Capfriendly and missed this year's 146k, thanks. Of course it doesn't change my point; obviously we are benefitting from the buyout this year, not so much a couple of years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said: Oh yeah, I just glanced at Capfriendly and missed this year's 146k, thanks. Of course it doesn't change my point; obviously we are benefitting from the buyout this year, not so much a couple of years down the road. Willander will come in and play on his elc. So combined that’s about 6 mil. That’s cheaper than OElevator. And the tumour was removed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, Whorvat said: You don't get to a buyout decision without the trade. No idea how you can pin this on new regime, they made a calculated business decision to cut bait from a previous regime error. 4 hours ago, stawns said: Exactly, they made the decision and made the move. They could have waited, see how OEL plays in an actual defensive system, then decide. Now they've got 6 years of carrying that weight Problem was that to get the most out of OEL, we ironically needed players like Cole, Soucy (and now Zadorov) to play with him (same with Myers). But one of the few avenues to get the cap to add those guys... Was buying out OEL. That's on both management groups. Benning for adding un-complementary guys he seemingly had no plan to add complementary players to, and poor cap management. Allvin for a massive, long buyout that will handicap the team for years (albeit likely a necessary evil to move the roster forward... but still poor cap management). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Gurn said: Next season's OEL dead cap is $2,346,667- the 2 following years it goes up to $4,766,667 so it is 2025 and 2026 seasons that are going to be a bigger problem. Which is why at a minimum Willander and Lekker need to be here and contributing. It's an interesting bet Allvin made, could be career defining for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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