[GDT] Vancouver @ St. Louis - January 4th, 5pt/8et - Enterprise Center - St. Louis, Missouri.

[Jaimito]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Agreed, this getting ridiculous.  Let him work it out or cut bait.  All they're doing is driving his value down

 

23 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Ok, I'm starting to get a little bit pissed at the Kuzmenko treatment.  There's no way a guy like Aman should be in over him.  Play him in the top 6 he's been playing better lately he's definitely not been worse than the fourth liners and Suter would make that 4th line so much better.  Also, Lafferty has been so bad lately why is he getting special treatment?

we'll see. 

 

 

[Darius]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Drance is a stats geek. Now he’s into a stat that (supposedly) predicts luck. Guys like Drsnce need to cover a bad lib for their “schtick” to work. We are a great club and will be for many years to come. Drance will move on to cover a different club. He will go cover the Smelly Cowpies. 

 

When did these nerds come up with PDO as a "measure" of luck?  Drance seems to be pushing this, as well as other spreadsheet geeks on X/Twitter.  Its being used by some to diminish the Canucks' success this season.  "Yeah they are doing great, but they are lucky....." seems to be the line.  This crap is getting out of hand - I used to enjoy the games without all this riff-raff in the "hockey journalist" world condescendingly analyzing the game with seemingly endless statistics that undermine the human factors in the game.  Its as if the players are machines running on algorithms.  My cro-magnon brain tells me - hey we outscored the other guys ..Im happy.

 

PDO - shooting percentage combined with save percentage multiplied by 10.   So you are telling me if we took a few extra meaningless shots per game the team would be less lucky because shooting percentage would be altered?    Someone tell Juulsen (ranked 191/194) and Cole (131/194) for shots taken by D men with > 25 games played to take a few extra muffin shots per game to shut these fkn nerds up!

 

 

Edited January 4 by Darius

[Dr. Crossbar]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

He's been abused by others teams on 5 on 5 possession. I don't think it's personal, just looking at how best to match up on a given night.

 

Exactly this. It's not personal. Comes down to matching up and what we need to beat St. Louis's style of play. 

[CanuckMan]

2 hours ago, tas said:

why?

Why? To win the division that’s why. 
 

do you want to face Vegas or the Kings in the first round? 

[CanuckMan]

10 hours ago, NucksIn50 said:

Baby steps…. Let’s play 40 minutes because St.Louis is also an NHL team just like Ottawa was and we will still win this one 4-2.

 

Go Canucks 

Baby steps for sure but you can’t deny St. Louis/Buffalo/Columbus would

be easier games than NYR/NYI/NJD.

 

we need to win the games I know we can. So if we go 1-2 against NYR/NYI/NJD it would be “ok”

(never ok losing but I’d rather lose to the latter 3 and win the ones I know we can)

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Rindiculous]

2 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

When did these nerds come up with PDO as a "measure" of luck?  Drance seems to be pushing this, as well as other spreadsheet geeks on X/Twitter.  Its being used by some to diminish the Canucks' success this season.  "Yeah they are doing great, but they are lucky....." seems to be the line.  This crap is getting out of hand - I used to enjoy the games without all this riff-raff in the "hockey journalist" world condescendingly analyzing the game with seemingly endless statistics that undermine the human factors in the game.  Its as if the players are machines running on algorithms.  My cro-magnon brain tells me - hey we outscored the other guys ..Im happy.

 

PDO - shooting percentage combined with save percentage multiplied by 10.   So you are telling me if we took a few extra meaningless shots per game the team would be less lucky because shooting percentage would be altered?    Someone tell Juulsen (ranked 191/194) and Cole (131/194) for shots taken by D men with > 25 games played to take a few extra muffin shots per game to shut these fkn nerds up!

 

 

Yah, PDO isn't the best metric, however, there is a better luck metric on a private stats system mentioned by JFresh that is called expected PDO.  Apparently Canucks are top of the league this year in that metric, and while they're still outperforming that metric, it isn't that crazy and I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it takes into account goaltending like Demko being one of the best goalies in the league.  We still have been 'lucky', but it isn't as bad as a lot of people think.  We don't take low quality shots like other teams do.  We are top 10 in the league for zone time which might be a better stat for telling how good a team is cause it shows how often we're on offense vs defense.

[CanuckMan]

7 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

we'll see. 

 

 

Not sure why they keep taking Kuzmenko out. If you want to get him going you can’t take him out every 2nd or 3rd game. Guy needs the consistent ice time!

[MathIsFun]

2 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Yah, PDO isn't the best metric, however, there is a better luck metric on a private stats system mentioned by JFresh that is called expected PDO.

Still not sure what "PDO" stands for. 

[Tusk]

3 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Yah, PDO isn't the best metric, however, there is a better luck metric on a private stats system mentioned by JFresh that is called expected PDO.  Apparently Canucks are top of the league this year in that metric, and while they're still outperforming that metric, it isn't that crazy and I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it takes into account goaltending like Demko being one of the best goalies in the league.  We still have been 'lucky', but it isn't as bad as a lot of people think.  We don't take low quality shots like other teams do.  We are top 10 in the league for zone time which might be a better stat for telling how good a team is cause it shows how often we're on offense vs defense.

our shot percentage is breaking al the stats

[Lewlowned]

6 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

we'll see. 

 

 

Hoglander sitting makes a bit more sense as Tocchet mentioned in his post game presser that he felt Hoglander has sort of fallen off and could use a reset.

 

Will be interesting to see what the lineup looks like. Karlsson was just called up so he could sit as well. 
 

Hoglander Aman and Kuzmenko would be some HIGH EVENT HOCKEY lol

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, MathIsFun said:

Still not sure what "PDO" stands for. 

Permanent Distessed Optics.

[Strawbone]

10 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

When did these nerds come up with PDO as a "measure" of luck?  Drance seems to be pushing this, as well as other spreadsheet geeks on X/Twitter.  Its being used by some to diminish the Canucks' success this season.  "Yeah they are doing great, but they are lucky....." seems to be the line.  This crap is getting out of hand - I used to enjoy the games without all this riff-raff in the "hockey journalist" world condescendingly analyzing the game with seemingly endless statistics that undermine the human factors in the game.  Its as if the players are machines running on algorithms.  My cro-magnon brain tells me - hey we outscored the other guys ..Im happy.

 

PDO - shooting percentage combined with save percentage multiplied by 10.   So you are telling me if we took a few extra meaningless shots per game the team would be less lucky because shooting percentage would be altered?    Someone tell Juulsen (ranked 191/194) and Cole (131/194) for shots taken by D men with > 25 games played to take a few extra muffin shots per game to shut these fkn nerds up!

 

 

 

I wasn't quite sure what PDO was until I heard someone explain it in a really simple way. It seemed kind of arbitrary, but it's not.

 

PDO is simply the percentage of shots that are saved + the percentage of shots that are goals. League-wide, this must total to exactly 100% because all shots are either saves or goals.

 

So if your team PDO is > 100%, it simply means you are getting above average goaltending and/or above average goal scoring. Some of this could be luck, and some of it could be skill. It stands to reason that the team with the most skilled goalies and scorers will have a higher PDO, but historically it is rarely more than a fraction of a percent above 100%.

 

Do the Canucks have the best goalie tandem + best shooters in league history? Maybe! But there's a reason most analysts expect that stat to regress a bit.

[tas]

36 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

Why? To win the division that’s why. 
 

do you want to face Vegas or the Kings in the first round? 

bring on all comers. as long as it's top 8 I don't care where this team finishes. 

 

trying to cherry pick a playoff path is for losers. 

 

[nux_win]

Typically people are way overreacting to the Kuzmenko situation.  It's actually a good thing to have useful NHL players sitting out now and then.  It means that we have depth.  I don't want to trade Kuz either.  I think that he still has a place on the team.  We should trust that our coaching and management know what they're doing.  One or two injuries to offensive players and suddenly he's really valuable.  Go Canucks Go!

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

He's not being negative, though. He's merely talking about historically factual stats as they relate to the Canucks, who have gone from one of the worst teams in the league to one of the best in one year. If only some fans would also be able to hold two conflicting ideas in their heads about this team at the same time; namely, the Canucks are a good team this year, but it remains to be seen just how good they are, as the stats show they may not be as good as yet to contend with the contenders. Regardless, and Drance has said this before as well, this year has been fun, they're absolutely a solid playoff team, and with some more changes we could be even better. Even so, no one knows yet how well we're going to do in the playoffs, so we have to wait and see. It's not like Drance isn't enjoying the season so far and he hates this team and just loves to rip on them. Gawd forbid he talks about something interesting about this team or else fans will cry blasphemy.

 

I don't listen to too much stuff like this (Podcasts and radio) so I can't even comment on this year. Before this point though all he did that I ever saw (tweets and between periods mainly) was pick low hanging fruit and needlessly insult and demean everything related to the organization, including the players, owners, and coaches, all while we were going through our worst period in 20 years. That's why I hate the Drunce. Never noticed him before and then he just shows up out of nowhere and shits on everyone and everything Canucks and tries to pretend he's some kind of hockey journalist when really he's just a failed marketing and media student/blogger trying desperately to be relevant in any market that will take him, all by being a super douche.

 

This type of commentary is acceptable when it's coming from a former hockey person like say a Ferraro, or Hansen, who can have some harsh takes but come from a very strong and respectable hockey background. Not this sniveling little dweeb who probably can't even hold a hockey stick ... and as @Mackcanuck says definitely can't skate. The stuff he says is pretty much common sense, he's not some hockey savant, but his delivery methods and air of self appointed superiority while doing so is ingratiating and despicable. Maybe try being kind and respectable to the people whom you're leeching off of when you're in a new environment. Then I would have no problem with him.

 

Anyways... Go Canucks Go !!!

[tas]

50 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

When did these nerds come up with PDO as a "measure" of luck?  Drance seems to be pushing this, as well as other spreadsheet geeks on X/Twitter.  Its being used by some to diminish the Canucks' success this season.  "Yeah they are doing great, but they are lucky....." seems to be the line.  This crap is getting out of hand - I used to enjoy the games without all this riff-raff in the "hockey journalist" world condescendingly analyzing the game with seemingly endless statistics that undermine the human factors in the game.  Its as if the players are machines running on algorithms.  My cro-magnon brain tells me - hey we outscored the other guys ..Im happy.

 

PDO - shooting percentage combined with save percentage multiplied by 10.   So you are telling me if we took a few extra meaningless shots per game the team would be less lucky because shooting percentage would be altered?    Someone tell Juulsen (ranked 191/194) and Cole (131/194) for shots taken by D men with > 25 games played to take a few extra muffin shots per game to shut these fkn nerds up!

 

 

rise up, friend.

 

the real fans are taking this team back. 

[tas]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

If only some fans would also be able to hold two conflicting ideas in their heads about this team at the same time; namely, the Canucks are a good team this year, but it remains to be seen just how good they are, as the stats show they may not be as good as yet to contend with the contenders.

what is the benefit of skepticism for a fan of a team?

[Dr. Crossbar]

PDO

DRANCE

PDO

DRANCE

PDO

DRANCE

 

[Devron]

Scratch Kuzy and I find you 

[Mando27]

41 minutes ago, nux_win said:

Typically people are way overreacting to the Kuzmenko situation.  It's actually a good thing to have useful NHL players sitting out now and then.  It means that we have depth.  I don't want to trade Kuz either.  I think that he still has a place on the team.  We should trust that our coaching and management know what they're doing.  One or two injuries to offensive players and suddenly he's really valuable.  Go Canucks Go!

Exactly, don't see a reason to question the coaching staff when the team is playing well.

[Mackcanuck]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

That seems to be the way it is on this site much more than the old one.  I don't know if it's just because people are swept up in success or feel more free to try and shout down those who have different opinions, but there's definitely an air of toxic "optimism" on this board.

 

Toxic optimism?????

That sure explains your Drance stance

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Exactly this. It's not personal. Comes down to matching up and what we need to beat St. Louis's style of play. 

 

Petey and Kuzy together are only fun to watch on 1/2 the ice. He's got to find a way to not be a liability without the puck. 

 

It sounds like there is an actual plan in place and the agent doesn't sound worried. It might just be how we have to manage his minutes this year. 

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, Mando27 said:

Exactly, don't see a reason to question the coaching staff when the team is playing well.

Because despite how the team is doing.

We're doomed because of Tocc.

We're doomed because of Allvin.

We're doomed because of JR.

 

Or at least what some would have you believe on here.

[PhillipBlunt]

46 minutes ago, nux_win said:

Typically people are way overreacting to the Kuzmenko situation.  It's actually a good thing to have useful NHL players sitting out now and then.  It means that we have depth.  I don't want to trade Kuz either.  I think that he still has a place on the team.  We should trust that our coaching and management know what they're doing.  One or two injuries to offensive players and suddenly he's really valuable.  Go Canucks Go!

True. I think most aren't used to a coach being able to scratch a "top 6" forward and still be a winning team. Tocchet, Foote, Gonchar, Yeo, Sedin and Sedin are a solid staff who have an enormous amount of knowledge. Folks have every right to question their motives, but these same folks also don't have anywhere near the insight into the mechanics of this team that the staff does.