[RUMOUR] Vancouver may be pursuing Jake Guentzel

[Sophomore Jinx]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:24 PM, Provost said:

That is definitely a hope!

There are definitely a few targets from non playoff teams, it is just how much does the brass want to go for it.  My feeling is they will be all in.

 

The way we are playing and how no one else in the conference is a monster this year gives a legitimate path to go deep.  That might not come again soon.  A lot of these bottom six guys are playing themselves into raises which will likely happen on other teams.

 

 

 

I agree. Management has to be all in, they owe it to the players, who have changed their ways and bought in to coach RT's systems (for the most part) and they deserve to be rewarded for their efforts and be given a chance to make a run for the Silver Can.

31 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Guentzel would make them better. 

 

I like Kuzmenko, he would be fun to hang out with, but watching him play this season is a bit painful to watch. The beaver-slap with the stick, inability to backcheck, avoiding physical contact like he's a germaphobe. He's also pretty slow with the way he skates. Playoffs is about speed and physicality. If Kuzy isn't putting the puck in the net (which he is not), then he's not really helping.

 

 

 

 

It's all true. Once the luster of last years heroics wore off of the Kuz, it became apparent that he is not fitting in so easily here this year, it's just not his game to give what RT is asking of him on a daily basis. I like Kuz a lot, and I'm sure the room does too, but if he gets parlayed into a JG or Crouse we have to do it. 

28 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

We need to get the PP going.

 

Kuzy isn’t getting it done there. 

No, it's painful to watch actually.

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I like this trade and I can see Allvin pulling the trigger.  Guentzel is built for playoff hockey, Kuzmenko is not.  Allvin said he is going to try and get more help for the boys to make their run.  This is the perfect short term move to do that as we don't have to give up any young players or picks.

 

Also, if you do the math we don't have the money to bring everyone back next year, so freeing up that $5.5 million of Kuzmenko's contract will be huge for the summer so we can sign as many of our pending UFA's as possible plus Petey and Hronek.  I'm okay with Guentzel strictly as a rental because I don't want to sign him to a long term deal as he will be 30 years old.

 

Not sure how the lines will look, but since Guentzel is a winger I would suspect Tocchet is most likely going to break up the Lotto Line at some point and play Guentzel with Petey.  The Lotto Line I am sure will still be around during games for short periods, but I don't see it as a permanent line.  The only question left is if Allvin will move Hoglander up to the top 6 and move Suter back down to the 4th line and then we go after a 4th liner to finish the roster, or does Tocchet keep Suter in the top 6 and we go after a 4th line centre?

 

I think we will make more than one move at the deadline.  We could even go after a depth defenceman to replace Friedman...

With JG in our line up we would be so much more dynamic, scary good actually. Roaring lion on the Serengeti good.

 

I totally agree in your assessment of playoffs, I also think JG would be infinitely better than Kuz, and I'm also okay with it if it were to strictly be a rental...I think some are forgetting that Kuz was a "free asset" acquisition, so if he brings us a trade in which we can have a better chance to make a run in the playoffs, then we should, and have to take it....it is very important, and team building especially for the youngsters to get that experience.

[steviewonder20]

1 hour ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

If that is the rumour I don't like it. 

Why not? Kuz has no future here, hadn’t been worth 5.5 this year, and we give up late picks, not our first for a rental.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Big Rumour this morning. The same Unnamed source that broke the woodcroft firing days before it happened and before Friedman or Seravelli would confirm it was going to happen has said the Canucks and Pittsburgh have a deal in place. 
 They said it’s for after the allstar break but prior to the deadline(obviously)  and it will be Kuzmenko + 4th or 5th rd pick for Guentzel.  It will be strictly a rental and we’re getting away with not trading a high pick by giving them an extra year of Kuzmenko. It also gives us cap room for next year to re-sign Hronek and Petey, while making a strong cup run this year. 
 
  I’d also like to see us acquire another Center for a run, but apparently the Canucks only have the 1 deal in the works. 

 

I'd be shocked if that's all it took, Kuzmenko's value isn't what it was 

 

Guentzel should return around a 1st, an NHL player, and a decent prospect imo

 

Maybe Kuzmenko and a 1st would be closer but Kuzmenko and a couple mid round picks sounds too low

 

I'm not keen on the idea of burning a 1st for a rental but I understand that the window before Pettersson's extension is now

Edited January 17 by Coconuts

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'd be shocked if that's all it took, Kuzmenko's value isn't what it was 

 

Guentzel should return around a 1st, an NHL player, and a decent prospect imo

 

Maybe Kuzmenko and a 1st would be closer but Kuzmenko and a couple mid round picks sounds too low

 

I'm not keen on the idea of burning a 1st for a rental but I understand that the window before Pettersson's extension is now

 

Guentzel is at $6 million, so not alot of teams can afford him, even with a 50% retention.  Also, Pittsburgh isn't rebuilding, they probably look at Kuzmenko as someone who is cost controlled for one more year and can help next year versus Guentzel who they would have to re-sign in the summer to a 7-8 year deal.  

 

Crosby's contract is also up at the same time as Kuzmenko, so Pittsburgh can decide at that time if they still want to continue with Crosby for another 3-4 years or if they want to pack it in.  I suspect they will extend Crosby at least 3 more years to match with Malkin, Letang and Karlsson.  Crosby probably plays until he is 40.  

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Guentzel is at $6 million, so not alot of teams can afford him, even with a 50% retention.  Also, Pittsburgh isn't rebuilding, they probably look at Kuzmenko as someone who is cost controlled for one more year and can help next year versus Guentzel who they would have to re-sign in the summer to a 7-8 year deal.  

 

Crosby's contract is also up at the same time as Kuzmenko, so Pittsburgh can decide at that time if they still want to continue with Crosby for another 3-4 years or if they want to pack it in.  I suspect they will extend Crosby at least 3 more years to match with Malkin, Letang and Karlsson.  Crosby probably plays until he is 40.  

 

I understand that, but Guentzel is also undoubtedly a huge upgrade on Kuzmenko, even as a rental. Not only is he more proven over the course of his career, Crosby as a linemate or not, but he's tied with Crosby for the team lead in points at 46. He's also their second leading goal scorer behind Crosby, with 19 goals. There's quite a drop off after Guentzel, Crosby, and Malkin (the only players with 15 goals or more). Hell, toss Rust (11) goals in and Pittsburgh is top heavy.

 

As you've said, Pittsburgh isn't rebuilding, so why would downgrading to Kuzmenko help them reach that goal? As of today Pittsburgh is 9th with 48 points, right behind a clump of teams in Tampa, Detroit, Toronto, Carolina, and Philly. They could absolutely use more help up front considering they haven't gotten enough from Rakell. The caveat for Rust is that he's only played 29 games, but he's got 25 points. 

 

Kuzmenko isn't even really moving the needle here, he's got 19 points in 38 games and he's down to playing roughly third line minutes. 

 

All things considered it doesn't make sense at all to downgrade from Guentzel to Kuzmenko if there isn't more involved. I think it'd have to be something like Kuzmenko, Hoglander, and maybe a 2nd at the very least. It'd take some cap juggling, but hey. 6M cap hit or not, Pittsburgh should get better value for Guentzel. 

 

There's also something to be said for holding on to the linemate they know gels with Crosby. 

[Combover]

Rather not see us  get a rental at the cost of 1st and top six (kuz) ++
 

A player with term 3 years would be a better option 

if the price is a1st kuz and more. 
Paying more for EK or Crowse type guys makes more sense they don’t leave a gaping hole next season and they make us deeper. 
 

always  the risk of the rental getting injured and you get nothing. I’m just not a fan of rentals unless they’re cheaper middle to bottom six depth.

Funny all the sane people saying Kuz has no value  are the same one that hated on boeser ….good thing we did throw him away for nothing  like so many wanted 

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

34 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I understand that, but Guentzel is also undoubtedly a huge upgrade on Kuzmenko, even as a rental. Not only is he more proven over the course of his career, Crosby as a linemate or not, but he's tied with Crosby for the team lead in points at 46. He's also their second leading goal scorer behind Crosby, with 19 goals. There's quite a drop off after Guentzel, Crosby, and Malkin (the only players with 15 goals or more). Hell, toss Rust (11) goals in and Pittsburgh is top heavy.

 

As you've said, Pittsburgh isn't rebuilding, so why would downgrading to Kuzmenko help them reach that goal? As of today Pittsburgh is 9th with 48 points, right behind a clump of teams in Tampa, Detroit, Toronto, Carolina, and Philly. They could absolutely use more help up front considering they haven't gotten enough from Rakell. The caveat for Rust is that he's only played 29 games, but he's got 25 points. 

 

Kuzmenko isn't even really moving the needle here, he's got 19 points in 38 games and he's down to playing roughly third line minutes. 

 

All things considered it doesn't make sense at all to downgrade from Guentzel to Kuzmenko if there isn't more involved. I think it'd have to be something like Kuzmenko, Hoglander, and maybe a 2nd at the very least. It'd take some cap juggling, but hey. 6M cap hit or not, Pittsburgh should get better value for Guentzel. 

 

There's also something to be said for holding on to the linemate they know gels with Crosby. 

 

Kuzmenko is a downgrade on Guentzel but Pittsburgh can't afford to re-sign Guentzel for next season, so he is pretty much gone after this year.  With Kuzmenko, they have him for one more season next season, so they at least recoup a top 6 forward to play with Crosby.

 

Also, Kuzmenko might be valued higher around the league than in Vancouver.  Apparently, there are lots of teams that called regarding Kuzmenko, so you may feel the trade isn't fair, but Pittsburgh may be valuing Kuzmenko higher than you.  At the end of the day, I trust Allvin to get the best deal possible.  If it's Kuzmenko and a couple of later round picks and a B prospect, then I am sure Allvin will pull the trigger...

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Kuzmenko is a downgrade on Guentzel but Pittsburgh can't afford to re-sign Guentzel for next season, so he is pretty much gone after this year.  With Kuzmenko, they have him for one more season next season, so they at least recoup a top 6 forward to play with Crosby.

 

Also, Kuzmenko might be valued higher around the league than in Vancouver.  Apparently, there are lots of teams that called regarding Kuzmenko, so you may feel the trade isn't fair, but Pittsburgh may be valuing Kuzmenko higher than you.  At the end of the day, I trust Allvin to get the best deal possible.  If it's Kuzmenko and a couple of later round picks and a B prospect, then I am sure Allvin will pull the trigger...

 

Probably. 

 

Sure, but Pittsburgh could use the cap space opened up by Guentzel too, they could use him as their own rental. 

 

I don't think Pittsburgh is hard pressed to pay him, it's whether they want to or not. If they keep him more than likely Guentzel just cannibalizes Jeff Carter's 3.125M. Considering how little Carter's brought this season it's not as if he couldn't be replaced on the cheap. Guentzel is really the only Penguin who's due for a sizeable raise this offseason. 

 

There were reportedly teams poking around Kuzmenko agreed, but I'd argue they were probably teams looking to be opportunistic and buy low. If I as a Canuck fan can point at Kuzmenko's numbers last season and recognize he was due to regress than the management of NHL organizations should be able to do the same. At this point I don't imagine there are too many NHL head offices who think Kuzmenko is the 39 goal scorer he was last season given his unsustainable shooting percentage, if anything he's probably closer to the player we've seen. At best he's maybe somewhere in the middle imo. 

 

I don't think Kuzmenko is worthless by any stretch, but I do believe his value has almost certainly taken a hit. Should have sold high on him last season. 

 

Some might argue sophomore slump, I'd argue that he's going to be 28 in February and that he should be far along enough in his career to avoid something like that. I view him more as simply having been a better fit for Bruce's free wheeling offense than he is Tocchet's more structured systems. I don't have it out for Kuzmenko or anything like that, I think there's just a good chance he may have had his career season right off the hop. 

 

I do think that when the Canucks look to add in their top six that it'll be Kuzmenko who ends up going the other way as part of a deal though. 

[Northern_Nuck]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I like this trade and I can see Allvin pulling the trigger.  Guentzel is built for playoff hockey, Kuzmenko is not.  Allvin said he is going to try and get more help for the boys to make their run.  This is the perfect short term move to do that as we don't have to give up any young players or picks.

 

Also, if you do the math we don't have the money to bring everyone back next year, so freeing up that $5.5 million of Kuzmenko's contract will be huge for the summer so we can sign as many of our pending UFA's as possible plus Petey and Hronek.  I'm okay with Guentzel strictly as a rental because I don't want to sign him to a long term deal as he will be 30 years old.

 

Not sure how the lines will look, but since Guentzel is a winger I would suspect Tocchet is most likely going to break up the Lotto Line at some point and play Guentzel with Petey.  The Lotto Line I am sure will still be around during games for short periods, but I don't see it as a permanent line.  The only question left is if Allvin will move Hoglander up to the top 6 and move Suter back down to the 4th line and then we go after a 4th liner to finish the roster, or does Tocchet keep Suter in the top 6 and we go after a 4th line centre?

 

I think we will make more than one move at the deadline.  We could even go after a depth defenceman to replace Friedman...

I hope that if it’s true, you and Guentzel have good chemistry. 

[Northern_Nuck]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I like this trade and I can see Allvin pulling the trigger.  Guentzel is built for playoff hockey, Kuzmenko is not.  Allvin said he is going to try and get more help for the boys to make their run.  This is the perfect short term move to do that as we don't have to give up any young players or picks.

 

Also, if you do the math we don't have the money to bring everyone back next year, so freeing up that $5.5 million of Kuzmenko's contract will be huge for the summer so we can sign as many of our pending UFA's as possible plus Petey and Hronek.  I'm okay with Guentzel strictly as a rental because I don't want to sign him to a long term deal as he will be 30 years old.

 

Not sure how the lines will look, but since Guentzel is a winger I would suspect Tocchet is most likely going to break up the Lotto Line at some point and play Guentzel with Petey.  The Lotto Line I am sure will still be around during games for short periods, but I don't see it as a permanent line.  The only question left is if Allvin will move Hoglander up to the top 6 and move Suter back down to the 4th line and then we go after a 4th liner to finish the roster, or does Tocchet keep Suter in the top 6 and we go after a 4th line centre?

 

I think we will make more than one move at the deadline.  We could even go after a depth defenceman to replace Friedman...

Double post

Edited January 17 by Northern_Nuck
Site froze and posted twice.

[Northern_Nuck]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'd be shocked if that's all it took, Kuzmenko's value isn't what it was 

 

Guentzel should return around a 1st, an NHL player, and a decent prospect imo

 

Maybe Kuzmenko and a 1st would be closer but Kuzmenko and a couple mid round picks sounds too low

 

I'm not keen on the idea of burning a 1st for a rental but I understand that the window before Pettersson's extension is now

I’m thinking you’re going to be shocked. I think Kuzmenko’s value around the league is still high. Everyone including Helen Keller can see that Kuzmenko’s ability and production is being stifled by Tocchet’s coaching expectations. 
 There’s a general consensus that Kuzmenko’s ceiling is equivalent to peak Kaprizov in a system that allows him to play his game. 
  I think we’ll regret trading Kuzmenko, but if it gets us a cup or another president’s trophy, that’s a regret I can live with. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I’m thinking you’re going to be shocked. I think Kuzmenko’s value around the league is still high. Everyone including Helen Keller can see that Kuzmenko’s ability and production is being stifled by Tocchet’s coaching expectations. 
 There’s a general consensus that Kuzmenko’s ceiling is equivalent to peak Kaprizov in a system that allows him to play his game. 
  I think we’ll regret trading Kuzmenko, but if it gets us a cup or another president’s trophy, that’s a regret I can live with. 

 

That's fine, I don't mind agreeing to disagree 

[Northern_Nuck]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

That's fine, I don't mind agreeing to disagree 

I hope your wrong for the sake of our team’s prospect pool and future lol. But as a Canucks fan I’m usually disappointed 

[Rypien-Punch]

This would solve a lot of issues for the team. Its important to remember that Mikheyev is a RW who shoots L

 

Pettersson Miller Boeser

Guentzel Suter Mikheyev

Joshua Blueger Garland

Hoglander Aman Lafferty 

This gives us 4 solid lines of speed, skill, and a bit of grit 

 

the trade would clearly start with Kuzmenko and our 2024 1st. After that Pittsburg would need an A prospect of ours coming back. I think Raty is the guy. I wouldnt want to part with Lekkerimakki, Willander, Pettersson, or Bruzustewicz 

 

Edit - i would also rather trade Raty than Bains 

 

 

Edited January 17 by Rypien-Punch

[GrammaInTheTub]

8 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I’m thinking you’re going to be shocked. I think Kuzmenko’s value around the league is still high. Everyone including Helen Keller can see that Kuzmenko’s ability and production is being stifled by Tocchet’s coaching expectations. 
 There’s a general consensus that Kuzmenko’s ceiling is equivalent to peak Kaprizov in a system that allows him to play his game. 
  I think we’ll regret trading Kuzmenko, but if it gets us a cup or another president’s trophy, that’s a regret I can live with. 

I love Kuzy and want to see him succeed but I don’t know that I’ve seen a general consensus that his ceiling is Kaprizov level in the right circumstance. I think the right circumstance for Kuz was last season and that was overachieving on shooting percentage obviously - so his true ceiling likely lies closer to 25-35 for 60 points thereabouts.

 

Don’t get me wrong - I’d be over the moon the be proven wrong and have Kuzy show like Kaprizov, but I’m not upset if Kuzy gets to that 60 point form. 

[canucks curse]

4 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Big Rumour this morning. The same Unnamed source that broke the woodcroft firing days before it happened and before Friedman or Seravelli would confirm it was going to happen has said the Canucks and Pittsburgh have a deal in place. 
 They said it’s for after the allstar break but prior to the deadline(obviously)  and it will be Kuzmenko + 4th or 5th rd pick for Guentzel.  It will be strictly a rental and we’re getting away with not trading a high pick by giving them an extra year of Kuzmenko. It also gives us cap room for next year to re-sign Hronek and Petey, while making a strong cup run this year. 
 
  I’d also like to see us acquire another Center for a run, but apparently the Canucks only have the 1 deal in the works. 

Thats a great deal actually 

[canucks curse]

If there is anyone who can resign Guentzel to a fair multi year deal, its JR, he drafted him, developed him, gave him his big contract he is on now, I also like the JR Dubas dynamic, I like the Pit Van fit for a trade as well:

 

1. Kuzmenko is younger than Jake and can put up points in top 6

2.Kuzmenko might really give it playing next to national hero Malkin

3.Kuzmenko is a Jake replacement on a cheaper deal 

4. It is likely the best acquisition available to PIT that helps them now and in future without rebuilding.

5.I could see other teams offering picks and prospects but not first liners for a rental, PIT doesn't need picks or prospects, they want to stay competitive.

[Nucker67]

Would Guentzel be a rental though? Maybe Allvin likes him enough as a player that the Canucks would like to re-sign him.

 

Guessing (next season)

 

Pettersson - $11 (re-signed)

Miller - $8

Hughes - $7.85

Guentzel - $7.25

Boeser - $6.65

Hronek - $6 (re-signed)

Myers - do they re-sign?

Zadorov - do they re-sign?

 

Mikheyev and/or Garland and Cole could be next out the door in the off season. 

 

 

[Provost]

14 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Would Guentzel be a rental though? Maybe Allvin likes him enough as a player that the Canucks would like to re-sign him.

 

Guessing (next season)

 

Pettersson - $11 (re-signed)

Miller - $8

Hughes - $7.85

Guentzel - $7.25

Boeser - $6.65

Hronek - $6 (re-signed)

Myers - do they re-sign?

Zadorov - do they re-sign?

 

Mikheyev and/or Garland and Cole could be next out the door in the off season. 

 

 

I am afraid your numbers for Petterson and Hronek are underestimated by a lot.

 

Petterson is north of Nylander.  Probably in the $12-13 million range.

 

We signed Myers years ago for $6 million and there were questions if he was actually a top 4 guy.  Assume Hronek to be $7.5-8 million is a safer range if you are trying to fit guys under the cap.

 

All our depth guys up for extensions have bought themselves raises too.

[HKSR]

6 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Big Rumour this morning. The same Unnamed source that broke the woodcroft firing days before it happened and before Friedman or Seravelli would confirm it was going to happen has said the Canucks and Pittsburgh have a deal in place. 
 They said it’s for after the allstar break but prior to the deadline(obviously)  and it will be Kuzmenko + 4th or 5th rd pick for Guentzel.  It will be strictly a rental and we’re getting away with not trading a high pick by giving them an extra year of Kuzmenko. It also gives us cap room for next year to re-sign Hronek and Petey, while making a strong cup run this year. 
 
  I’d also like to see us acquire another Center for a run, but apparently the Canucks only have the 1 deal in the works. 

Where did you read or see this?  That's a pretty specific package identified.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I’m thinking you’re going to be shocked. I think Kuzmenko’s value around the league is still high. Everyone including Helen Keller can see that Kuzmenko’s ability and production is being stifled by Tocchet’s coaching expectations. 
 There’s a general consensus that Kuzmenko’s ceiling is equivalent to peak Kaprizov in a system that allows him to play his game. 
  I think we’ll regret trading Kuzmenko, but if it gets us a cup or another president’s trophy, that’s a regret I can live with. 

[Nucker67]

14 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am afraid your numbers for Petterson and Hronek are underestimated by a lot.

 

Petterson is north of Nylander.  Probably in the $12-13 million range.

 

We signed Myers years ago for $6 million and there were questions if he was actually a top 4 guy.  Assume Hronek to be $7.5-8 million is a safer range if you are trying to fit guys under the cap.

 

All our depth guys up for extensions have bought themselves raises too.

 

I think if Pettersson was signing for 8 years, like Nylander, then he would get much more, but I believe Petey is only seeking a short term (4 years). 

 

I agree about Hronek, he's worth more than $6

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am afraid your numbers for Petterson and Hronek are underestimated by a lot.

 

Petterson is north of Nylander.  Probably in the $12-13 million range.

 

We signed Myers years ago for $6 million and there were questions if he was actually a top 4 guy.  Assume Hronek to be $7.5-8 million is a safer range if you are trying to fit guys under the cap.

 

All our depth guys up for extensions have bought themselves raises too.

 

Move Garland and we could retain Guentzel.

[Junkyard Dog]

If we get Guentzel you stick him with Petey since that would be Petey's duo.

 

Guentzel-Petey

Miller-Boeser

 

 

Between Mikheyev, Lafferty, Hog, PGD you can probably find 2 guys to be the 3rd wheel/grinder/forchecker on those lines.

[Junkyard Dog]

Guentzel for Kuz and a mid-pick seems like a bit of a stretch. 

 

Kuz has been good in the past but he's also at his lowest value. 

 

Guentzel is their forward leader in ice-time and is tied for 1st in team scoring for the Pens. 

 

We would likely have to add. Not sure what sort of deal Pens would want since their direction is up in the air.