stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: I wouldn't either. Like with Zadorov, I think people are overestimating how much the return will be for PIT for what is basically a rental (until he's extended anyway). And I don't think PIT is ready to sell pieces for picks yet anyway. Getting an under contract replacement winger that saves them $500k cap this year and likely +/-$3m next and perhaps a young, near NHL ready depth player back, +/- some smaller/depth pieces. Hell yes. and for me, they're not at "high priced rental" phase of their climb yet. If there's a reasonable deal for a player or a good hockey trade, I'm in, but trading future for a short term player isn't what they should be doing, imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: It's not about whether they can afford to extend him next year IMO. That's not the problem. Crosby's under contract 1 more year after this one and will be 37 this August. Malkin 2 more years and turning 39 the summer his deal expires. Do the Pens really want to commit $$$ for likely 8 years on Guentzel starting next year? Then there's Guentzel.... playing with Crosby has likely been AMAZING. But NHL careers are short. Does staying in PIT give him the best chance to win? He'll make money anywhere...but winning... I wouldn't assume either side is gung ho about a long term extension in PIT personally. I could see Crosby playing into his 40's tbh, Letang is signed for another 4 seasons after this one, I wouldn't be surprised if Malkin were the first to retire. Guentzel and term is a good question though, hard to say. They'll have to play someone in their top six though. Hard to say what Guentzel wants, he's got a cup so it may well be he's content to be a career Penguin. Could be that he's open to a change of scenery too though, he'll get paid wherever he goes. I think the Pens find a way to get things done. Wouldn't mind him as a Canuck though, although I question what he'd cost in terms of cap hit and acquisition. Sold as a rental or not, I reckon Guentzel would command more than Kuzmenko and middling picks or prospects. Pittsburhg would probably be asking for at least Hoglander, they could certainly use an infusion of skilled youth up front and Hogs is having a good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: Kuz + Karlsson + Woo +/- a deal around Kuz and an older prospect would be ok, but not a 1st or even a second for a rental, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 18 minutes ago, stawns said: no way I'm paying a higj [rice for a guy whp rde shotgun to crosby his entire career. That's way too high risk for me, unless it's a kuz for JG kinkd of deal. I wouldn't be giving up any significant prospect or high pick for him Lol you don't score 40 goals multiple times by mistake regardless of who you play with. That's just such a lazy take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, stawns said: a deal around Kuz and an older prospect would be ok, but not a 1st or even a second for a rental, imo. This year's 1st will be a high one, so I wouldn't be opposed to getting him as a rental - albeit not idea - to make a run for it this year. If we don't re-sign him, we'd then free up Kuz's cap for the offseason, which is worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Pears said: Lol you don't score 40 goals multiple times by mistake regardless of who you play with. That's just such a lazy take. the history of the NHL is full of guys who did that playing with the best players in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Jester13 said: This year's 1st will be a high one, so I wouldn't be opposed to getting him as a rental - albeit not idea - to make a run for it this year. If we don't re-sign him, we'd then free up Kuz's cap for the offseason, which is worth something. who knows how high it will be, they could be the first team eliminated from the post season. That could be a #17 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 kuzy and hogs seem to be in tocchet's dog house, could they be trade chips for guentzel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, stawns said: who knows how high it will be, they could be the first team eliminated from the post season. That could be a #17 pick Or we could go very deep into the playoffs and it could be 30th. Guentzel is legit, and again, he'd be playing alongside Petey or Miller, who are both elite forwards in the league. Losing that 1st wouldn't kill our prospect pool, but it would give us a legit shot at the cup, and with how many contract balls are up in the air, it's worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, smithers joe said: kuzy and hogs seem to be in tocchet's dog house, could they be trade chips for guentzel? Yeah, could certainly be the starting point of a package. Not sure what else we'd need to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Jester13 said: Or we could go very deep into the playoffs and it could be 30th. Guentzel is legit, and again, he'd be playing alongside Petey or Miller, who are both elite forwards in the league. Losing that 1st wouldn't kill our prospect pool, but it would give us a legit shot at the cup, and with how many contract balls are up in the air, it's worth a shot. it's definitely a risk/reward scenario and I just don't think they're at that spot yet. Hold tight unless a great deal presents itself. Get some experience and maybe next year is the year they make a big, risky move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 7 minutes ago, smithers joe said: kuzy and hogs seem to be in tocchet's dog house, could they be trade chips for guentzel? Something around Kuzmenko, Hoglander + could be worth a swing. If we could move Kuzmenko for an upgrade without giving up our 1st that'd be an impressive bit of work. Pens probably ask for players who are closer to being NHL'ers, so maybe they ask for Podz instead. If you look at the Pens lineup their bottom two lines haven't produced much, they'd probably like to try and address that. Not interested in moving our 1st. Edited January 4 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: Something around Kuzmenko, Hoglander + could be worth a swing. If we could move Kuzmenko for an upgrade without giving up our 1st that'd be an impressive bit of work. Not interested in moving our 1st. I can't, for the life of me, understand what RT's issue is with Hoglander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, smithers joe said: kuzy and hogs seem to be in tocchet's dog house, could they be trade chips for guentzel? I actually think that is more than enough to get Guentzel who has a 6 mill cap hit and is a UFA at essentially age 30 next year, Suzy is young, cost controlled, both could play in top 6, hogs will break out on an offensive team, also Marek show today saying PIT lacks offensive winger depth... I would prefer: Guentzel and 3rd for Kuzy and Hogs 3rd + Karlsson + Hirose for Tanev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, stawns said: I can't, for the life of me, understand what RT's issue is with Hoglander Dunno, but I could see him being a guy Pittsburgh would have interest in when considering any potential Guentzel trade. Young and cost effective with upside. Podz could be another player they may have interest in. Reilly Smith will be 33 in April, he'll be 34 when his deal is up next season, Pittsburgh could be looking for someone younger and more cost effective to supplant him. Hoglander or Podkolzin could play on the third line in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, canucks curse said: I actually think that is more than enough to get Guentzel who has a 6 mill cap hit and is a UFA at essentially age 30 next year, Suzy is young, cost controlled, both could play in top 6, hogs will break out on an offensive team, also Marek show today saying PIT lacks offensive winger depth... I would prefer: Guentzel and 3rd for Kuzy and Hogs 3rd + Karlsson + Hirose for Tanev I don't think giving up hogz is wise at this point, especially for a rental. You'd be giving up two wingers and of JG doesn't re-sign, then you're in big trouble with a lack of scoring wingers. You need the hogz' on cheap contracts to allow for some flexibility 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, smithers joe said: kuzy and hogs seem to be in tocchet's dog house, could they be trade chips for guentzel? I agree, I think because they do not offer grit ? but Hoghz actually plays heavy for his size and is seemingly putting it together now, on track for a break out year points wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't think giving up hogz is wise at this point, especially for a rental. You'd be giving up two wingers and of JG doesn't re-sign, then you're in big trouble with a lack of scoring wingers. You need the hogz' on cheap contracts to allow for some flexibility you raise good points, if they trade for JG they have to sign him, but a 30 year avg size player is who wants 5-6 years likely is not ideal and is not a great fit, that being said JR is the one who drafted, developed and signed this guy to his current deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 25 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I could see Crosby playing into his 40's tbh, Letang is signed for another 4 seasons after this one, I wouldn't be surprised if Malkin were the first to retire. Guentzel and term is a good question though, hard to say. They'll have to play someone in their top six though. Hard to say what Guentzel wants, he's got a cup so it may well be he's content to be a career Penguin. Could be that he's open to a change of scenery too though, he'll get paid wherever he goes. I think the Pens find a way to get things done. Wouldn't mind him as a Canuck though, although I question what he'd cost in terms of cap hit and acquisition. Sold as a rental or not, I reckon Guentzel would command more than Kuzmenko and middling picks or prospects. Pittsburhg would probably be asking for at least Hoglander, they could certainly use an infusion of skilled youth up front and Hogs is having a good season. Yeah, for me Höglander is a non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, N4ZZY said: Yeah, for me Höglander is a non-starter. That's fair, but Guentzel is also an upgrade on Kuzmenko Gotta give to get 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, canucks curse said: you raise good points, if they trade for JG they have to sign him, but a 30 year avg size player is who wants 5-6 years likely is not ideal and is not a great fit, that being said JR is the one who drafted, developed and signed this guy to his current deal. Yep. And if management signs Guentzel to a 5-6 year deal, then they're going to have two players in Miller and Guentzel entering well in their thirties. Gotta think about production levels at those stages of their career, and also the new deals that the organization needs to give to players that are up and coming. Whatever happened to needing players that can make an impact on their ELC's? We need cheaper players producing on this roster because of cap constraints. Adding JG won't help with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, Master Mind said: I'm very much against paying a high price for a rental, and given his production, I don't think he'd be affordable to re-sign. I wonder if Dubas is playing hardball with him right now incase Nylander becomes a UFA? maybe if Willie inks and extension with the Leaves then they'll come back to JG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: That's fair, but Guentzel is also an upgrade on Kuzmenko Gotta give to get Yea, I understand that as well. But Höglander is far younger the Guentzel, and he's also a free agent at the end of the season. If they trade Hogs for Guentzel, only to have him walk at season's end, that would be disastrous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: That's fair, but Guentzel is also an upgrade on Kuzmenko Gotta give to get youdo, but the same reason that Pit would want Hogz is the same reason Vancouver should keep him. They need cheap, cost effective scoring wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 hours ago, canuck73 said: There doesn't seem to be any doubt the Canucks are looking for a winger for the Miller line. Reality check... even Petey's wingers are under performing. As for Guentzel, I don't watch the Penguins games much, he is a smaller player... can he play the game Toch wants? Payroll will be an issue... Probably one of the most costly mistakes we made was buying out OEL, say what you will but 2.4 next year and then two years at 4.7 in dead cap. The timing blows So you would rather not have signed Cole, soucy, blueger and suter? Instead you would rather have 7.26 million tied up in OEL for the next 4 seasons? Yeah that would push us over the top!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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