2024 All Star 32 Nominations

[NucksIn50]

Not sure if anyone created a post on this (apologies) not one to step on toes…

 

So who gets in for our beloved Canucks?

 

Hughes for sure then?

 

Is it Demko? Miller? Petey? Brock? 
 

who do they snub? I’m pretty sure Petey won’t care if he goes because he will be asked the whole weekend about his contract or if he likes Vancouver.

 

Anyways love to hear what ya’ll think.

 

 

 

Go Canucks!

[Jess]

Gotta be Hughes, but Miller will probably be snubbed. If we get two, I have to imagine Demko gets in and I can't imagine we get three players. Petey has more brand value than Miller, but every Canuck fan knows that Miller is the better player. Both probably won't make it though, thanks to the dumb "participation rule".

[Miss Korea]

17 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Gotta be Hughes, but Miller will probably be snubbed. If we get two, I have to imagine Demko gets in and I can't imagine we get three players. Petey has more brand value than Miller, but every Canuck fan knows that Miller is the better player. Both probably won't make it though, thanks to the dumb "participation rule".

 

Oh please don't get us all riled up on the first response

[Jeremy Hronek]

I think Hughes and Pettersson makes it but Miller and Demko get snubbed.

 

Meanwhile, a bunch of undeserving  thespians from the Maple Leafs make the team.  

Edited January 5 by Jeremy Hronek
Sorry folks for my homophobic adjective in describing Leafs players. I've edited as a result.

[Rindiculous]

24 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Oh please don't get us all riled up on the first response

This isn't a hot take.  Miller has been the best forward on the team this year and for the past 5.  He gets absolutely no love outside of the fanbase though which annoys me to no end when they mention Petey is the reason we're so good this year, and don't even mention Miller.

[Bounce000]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Oh please don't get us all riled up on the first response

[PhillipBlunt]

Hughes, Demko, Pettersson. Miller should go, as he's one of the best defensive/power forwards in the league. 

 

And that's a fact!

[Enigma]

Hughes, Petey, Miller, Demko and Boeser all should go, but you know half will be snubbed as no one back east knows who they are.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Is it too late to vote for Rory?  

[Jess]

4 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Hughes, Petey, Miller, Demko and Boeser all should go, but you know half will be snubbed as no one back east knows who they are.

 

More likely because 32 spots are already taken with the "one per team" rule. Not too many spots left over and the most you'll ever see on one team these days is three, and even that's pretty rare (though I think we did it in 2020?)

[Shift-4]

I wish none would go.
Let them rest.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

They should reschedule it to pre-season, based on summary-of-prior-season performance.

 

This mean-nothing, benefit-nobody arrangement is antiquated and should no longer exist.

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, Rindiculous said:

This isn't a hot take.  Miller has been the best forward on the team this year and for the past 5.  He gets absolutely no love outside of the fanbase though which annoys me to no end when they mention Petey is the reason we're so good this year, and don't even mention Miller.

 

From my point of view the jedi are evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rindiculous]

24 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

From my point of view the jedi are evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like stats as much as anyone, but there is a huge problem to only evaluate a player's play through stats.  Anyone who has watched the two play know Miller is better.

[CanuckDownUnder]

Hughes and Demko. With the current system, I can't see the Canucks having three players going.

[Miss Korea]

9 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

I like stats as much as anyone, but there is a huge problem to only evaluate a player's play through stats.  Anyone who has watched the two play know Miller is better.

 Depends on the metric.  Overall, Miller has had a great year by his own standards while Pettersson (while top 10 in scoring) has had an uneven season so far.  And yet, Petey is the best in the league when it comes to certain things.

 

Miller obviously has had better chemistry with his linemates.  Boeser is on fire thanks to him.  On the power play, he has also helped generate tons of offense.  His 5v5 defending has improved.  His faceoff% is excellent.  Statistically, Miller has more points.

 

He also has a ton more penalties.  Pettersson almost never takes penalties but draws a ton of them.  It's a crucial asset to be able to get your team on the powerplay while avoiding the box yourself.  His zone entry is literally unstoppable.  He is always the guy who carries the puck into the offensive zone, and he rarely gets stuffed/forced to dump it.  He is also extremely efficient in generating scoring chances.

 

I'm not going to suggest Pettersson has had a better year than Miller so far.  We know he is capable of doing better.  And we know that because in the past he has indeed typically outperformed Miller.  At the end of the day, it's not really a competition/rivalry between the two guys.  But when someone suggests Miller has outperformed Pettersson during the ENTIRE duration of his time here, I won't stand for that.

[Rindiculous]

18 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 Depends on the metric.  Overall, Miller has had a great year by his own standards while Pettersson (while top 10 in scoring) has had an uneven season so far.  And yet, Petey is the best in the league when it comes to certain things.

 

Miller obviously has had better chemistry with his linemates.  Boeser is on fire thanks to him.  On the power play, he has also helped generate tons of offense.  His 5v5 defending has improved.  His faceoff% is excellent.  Statistically, Miller has more points.

 

He also has a ton more penalties.  Pettersson almost never takes penalties but draws a ton of them.  It's a crucial asset to be able to get your team on the powerplay while avoiding the box yourself.  His zone entry is literally unstoppable.  He is always the guy who carries the puck into the offensive zone, and he rarely gets stuffed/forced to dump it.  He is also extremely efficient in generating scoring chances.

 

I'm not going to suggest Pettersson has had a better year than Miller so far.  We know he is capable of doing better.  And we know that because in the past he has indeed typically outperformed Miller.  At the end of the day, it's not really a competition/rivalry between the two guys.  But when someone suggests Miller has outperformed Pettersson during the ENTIRE duration of his time here, I won't stand for that.

You make valid points, however Pettersson constantly gets pushed off the puck, falls down, does not win board battles etc, something that Miller is excellent at.  I honestly don't get the giveaway stat because somehow Pettersson is not the top in that category despite doing that a ton as soon as he enters the offensive zone.  Those are items that don't seem to be tracked therefore can only be seen by the eye test.  While yes, Pettersson was the better player last year.  Miller was significantly better by any sort of eye test this year, and in his first year and third year with the team.  I'll say Pettersson was better in year 2 and 4 when Miller was here, but Miller didn't become invisible when he was off.  He still seemed like he was invested in his game.  The biggest problem I have with Pettersson is inconsistency.  Pettersson's ceiling is higher than Miller's, but his floor is quite a bit below Miller's.  And I'm not saying that Miller is significantly better than Pettersson either.  I just believe he has been better overall since he's been here but he's gotten 0 attention except when he gets angry while outside of Vancouver Pettersson and Canucks are basically interchangeable with all the 'experts'.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

I don't see the validity in a player from every club going to begin with so. The Canucks could arguably have 4 to 6 players going if the idea was to bring the best of the league to this point. But will probably be two players going, maybe 3 and even then will be players from other clubs only going to represent their club. Lame.

[Phil_314]

6 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Is it too late to vote for Rory?  

Never too late.  Also wish they could get Bruce an ASG coaching gig after what he brought for our team on his winning streak.

[OldFaithfulcap]

19 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

This isn't a hot take.  Miller has been the best forward on the team this year and for the past 5.  He gets absolutely no love outside of the fanbase though which annoys me to no end when they mention Petey is the reason we're so good this year, and don't even mention Miller.

 

Pettey was better last year.

 

This year Miller is better. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

3 hours ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

 

Pettey was better last year.

 

This year Miller is better. 

 

Who was Petey's linemate last year?  What was his name?  Russian guy?  Last name started with K?  

 

Whoever he was, we could sure use that guy right about now.  Maybe he helps Petey get going again?   

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

I like stats as much as anyone, but there is a huge problem to only evaluate a player's play through stats.  Anyone who has watched the two play know Miller is better.

It's also why WAR is, and still is, a goofy thing.   Going back to the days when it first came out and named Alex freaking Steen, their love child.  Not Crosby.   Not Hank.  Not Ovi.  Not Kane...

[Kevin Biestra]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:26 PM, Miss Korea said:

 

From my point of view the jedi are evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hate sand.

[Miss Korea]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

It's also why WAR is, and still is, a goofy thing.   Going back to the days when it first came out and named Alex freaking Steen, their love child.  Not Crosby.   Not Hank.  Not Ovi.  Not Kane...

 

Time doesn't stand still.  A lot has changed in the analytics process over the past decade.  Nothing is perfect but the game has become too fast and too complex for the human eye to catch everything.

 

For the record, those names you mentioned were all in the >95th percentile from 2011-2014.  Steen did not rank above Crosby and Ovechkin.

[IBatch]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:31 PM, Miss Korea said:

 

Time doesn't stand still.  A lot has changed in the analytics process over the past decade.  Nothing is perfect but the game has become too fast and too complex for the human eye to catch everything.

 

For the record, those names you mentioned were all in the >95th percentile from 2011-2014.  Steen did not rank above Crosby and Ovechkin.

The games always been too fast and too complex for the human eye and brain to catch everything.  It's part of the reason going to games makes for a much better experience as well, TV doesn't catch it all.  And depending on where you sit, gives you an entirely different idea of what's happening too.  Go way up and watch from where the exec's do, a very different experience, then it is half way up.   Ice level.   Very different again.   A lot of moving parts.    I don't dislike WAR, it's intelligent, and gives you an idea where a players compared to his peer group, in certain areas.  The "overall score" for sure leaves quite a bit out, and that's where I have some grievances.   It's subjective, and not scientific.    Quality of competition for sure is important, vital even when evaluating players, how exactly is that determined.   

 

 Alex Steen was presented, as their big example.   Early on.   Alex Steen was already well known, as a swiss army knife sort.   Valuable yes.    At or near the top of the pile though?  The word "traditionalist" was coined.   As in, you know, the guys who actually watch the games, drink bad coffee and have a scouting card and watch these guys do their thing.  
 

I've read a lot of things on the subject, there was a battle going on in the hockey world as to why a guy like Bolland, who just scored some key goals to help win a cup with CHI, could have such a terrible WAR card,  yet be the hero.   Traditionalist's versus advanced stat guru's, in the early 2010's was an actual thing.   Arguing over their findings.   Corsi should be getting royalties but isn't.   Fenwick.   

 

There was some idiocy involved.   It's like a whole new thing that was never discovered was becoming unravelled like a big mystery.   Traditionalists, the bad guys, advanced stats guys, who openly admitted didn't spend much time watching the sport, figured out the math!  Like some sort of grandiose euraka moment, imagine that IF you had 5-10% better possession metrics as a whole, you will win cups.   CHI and then LA sold it so well, that not only do new departments exist, they gave two guys GM jobs (well Chakya for sure), with virtually no experience, but good with a spreadsheet.    Like asking an accountant to run a company, not necessarily a bad thing.   But what could go wrong?   A lot really.   A lot. 

 

You might not be aware of this, but Alex Steen was both been used as an example as how WAR works, and why it's flawed back then.  By both sides (advanced stat guru's and "traditionalists"). 

 

Is WAR a lot better now?   Sure it's refined.   And they are part of a group that's  done a great job of creating a market that wasn't there before.    A lot of jobs created.    Things have settled down too.   Once PIT won back to back cups, Corsi and Fenwick out the window - speed, speed, speed was in (again), they were a counter-attack team with middling possession stats, nothing like CHI or LA.  Then St. Louis won .. size?    No matter who wins, it becomes a little bit vogue to try and match that.  

 

Im very grateful, that you're showing these things, but take the overall rankings with at least a couple grains of salt.   TOI might be the most important part.   How much does the coach trust these guys, and well do they actually have a better option!?  Unlikely.   Quality of competition another part (although that's subjective, it's still important).     Where is the guy starting his shift?   In the D zone, or the O-zone.   That's important too.   Should a player be penalized for taking penalties?  Not been on the PK, or if so on the PK on a bad team or with a bad goalie?  

 

And does it add value.    Sometimes, I do wonder, how much actual NHLers feel about their system.   Not sure i'd give them too much credit.    Basic stats still matter, including plus minus although that's somewhat a team stat, until you compare it based on other guys on the team, and what line they are facing on a regular basis.   Bad teams, make for bad report cards.   Usually.   I'm not convinced WAR does this any better. 

Edited January 8 by IBatch