stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said: I think they are. I just don't think it's going to happen given his age. Hope I'm wrong though because I like the guy. They should be able to tell by now though shouldn't they? This goes back to last year. If not then play him and let him play the way he wants and get him scoring to up his trade value. The thing is, he's not a bad player away from the puck. He plays decent positional hockey, doesn't give the puck away anymore than anyone else and always works hard. I honestly don't know what Tocchets issue with him is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Jaimito said: The difference between a 6th ranked PP vs a 19th ranked PP. I'd say that's very significant. What Tocchet is doing with Kuz is blatantly stupid and egotistical at this point. There's gotta be some kinda personality clash or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, stawns said: The thing is, he's not a bad player away from the puck. He plays decent positional hockey, doesn't give the puck away anymore than anyone else and always works hard. I honestly don't know what Tocchets issue with him is. the numbers disagree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, stawns said: Agreed, however this kuzmenko situation is festering and needs to be resolved. You can't just sit a $5m, 39 goal scorer in the pressbox But this year he's NOT a 39 goal scorer this year, he's headed toward 20'ish. The word is out on him so it's been harder this year. And it seems to have worked for Hoglander as his game is much improved and more well rounded. I do feel he should play in the next game though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 My 2 cents on Kuz. Love the guy. Im not in the locker room so I don't know how he's truly handling it. Maybe he's disgruntled and will ask for a trade soon. Or maybe the staff and brass is saying all the right things to him and Milstein and maybe he's bought in and working hard in practice knowing he'll be given a chance soon. The only thing I'm not liking is that I don't think many of the other top 6 are necessarily playing great either and I'm not sure this is the time to pick him out of the group. Its natural for him to look around and compare. Is he really that much worse than anyone else in the top 6? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Maybe Tocc is over thinking this whole thing. Fixing things that arn't that broke... Too much success too soon could make him think he can do no wrong? Coming off a good win, changing up that line up heading into a tough road trip was a risky move. It didn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, -dlc- said: But this year he's NOT a 39 goal scorer this year, he's headed toward 20'ish. The word is out on him so it's been harder this year. And it seems to have worked for Hoglander as his game is much improved and more well rounded. I do feel he should play in the next game though. I dont know how he's supposed to get into a rhythm Under a microscope with more weight on him than most players on the squad. It's the smile. Too happy for Tocc. Confident people must be tough and grumpy. This is the old school way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Sure, play Kuzmenko next game against NJ. Canucks will still lose. Then who are we going to blame? The Core 6 needs to be better, much better. Has nothing to do with Tocchet or Kuzy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, bishopshodan said: Maybe Tocc is over thinking this whole thing. Fixing things that arn't that broke... Too much success too soon could make him think he can do no wrong? Coming off a good win, changing up that line up heading into a tough road trip was a risky move. It didn't work. Yeah it could be as simple as dressing a more physical, grinding team against the Blues and having it backfire because we didn't play our game (speed and skill under tight system) Really like RT but he's human like everyone else and may have made a mistake in anticipating the style of game we needed to play to beat the Blues. I just really hope there's enough open mindedness and dialogue between the staff to reflect on this, learn from it and get better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourHuckleberry Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 20 minutes ago, stawns said: It's a coach's issue, imo. I honestly don't see the big issue in Kuz's game.........he might not be a shut down defensive fwd, but he's not bad either. He works hard, forechecks when he has to, but that's not his game either RT is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and that never works........sitting him in the press box for being who he is is a terrible, terrible plan. Either play him and just accept who he is or move him. How do you know they’re not trying to move him? Coming out and saying so would tank the value of the return. Maybe they need to pretend they’re trying to work with him to maintain any leverage in negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Maybe Tocc is over thinking this whole thing. Fixing things that arn't that broke... I'm wondering this too. It would help a lot for us fans if we knew more about what "the plan" is. Maybe Rutherford gave us a hint - he said Kuzy didn't train on the right 'hockey things' in the offseason so maybe this is more about getting him in better condition so he can actually back check effectively? 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Too much success too soon could make him think he can do no wrong? Coming off a good win, changing up that line up heading into a tough road trip was a risky move. It didn't work. I'm sure we'll see some adjustments 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngould21 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, -dlc- said: But this year he's NOT a 39 goal scorer this year, he's headed toward 20'ish. The word is out on him so it's been harder this year. And it seems to have worked for Hoglander as his game is much improved and more well rounded. I do feel he should play in the next game though. My problem though with this lineup last night was in not particular order. Petey needs wingers, Lafferty isn't a top six guy, period. The Miller line is stagnant. When your third line is your best line game in and game out, not good. The team as a whole is struggling to score goals and right now I'd say Kuz is at least an option to get into the lineup. Plus, the power play is dismal, hit the damn net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, CanucksJay said: Yeah it could be as simple as dressing a more physical, grinding team against the Blues and having it backfire because we didn't play our game (speed and skill under tight system) Really like RT but he's human like everyone else and may have made a mistake in anticipating the style of game we needed to play to beat the Blues. I just really hope there's enough open mindedness and dialogue between the staff to reflect on this, learn from it and get better. Great post. As long as Tocc knows he is in uncharted waters for his own development too, we are still gonna continue to kick ass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFaithfulcap Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 15 minutes ago, NHL Tyranny said: Enjoy the game, I have a good feeling about this one and I'm mostly accurate... Thanks. Hope the snow doesn't mess up my train there too much. Have lower bowl, mid-way up behind New Jersey net for 1st and 3rd. Haven't been there before so will be my 10th different NHL arena (van, ott, mont, wash, dal, ral, la, old atl, old pacific coliseum) . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I dont know how he's supposed to get into a rhythm Under a microscope with more weight on him than most players on the squad. It's the smile. Too happy for Tocc. Confident people must be tough and grumpy. This is the old school way! What I see is a player who has abandoned what makes him successful in order to play the style his coach wants him to play and is terrified to take a risk in case he makes a mistake and gets benched. Anyone who thinks he's playing "poorly" is looking at numbers and not watching him play. All that's happening is they are dismantling a successful goal scorer and driving down his value as an asset 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: I'm wondering this too. It would help a lot for us fans if we knew more about what "the plan" is. Maybe Rutherford gave us a hint - he said Kuzy didn't train on the right 'hockey things' in the offseason so maybe this is more about getting him in better condition so he can actually back check effectively? I'm sure we'll see some adjustments Maybe, but sometimes you wont get that out of specailists. I think of Bret Hull. Would want him on any team but dont expect a strong defensive player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Maybe Rutherford gave us a hint - he said Kuzy didn't train on the right 'hockey things' in the offseason so maybe this is more about getting him in better condition so he can actually back check effectively? I'm really hoping this is it. It's really unfortunate that kuzy didn't train with a guy like Boeser who seemed to have listened and responded by training the right way this summer. Maybe Milstein is playing ball with management because as Kuz's agent, maybe he didn't give Kuz the right advice this summer and was part of the problem setting Kuz up with a sweet spot in Bali with all his "training tools " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, TheGuardian said: 1 Elias Pettersson 24 C 80 39 63 102 4 Andrei Kuzmenko 26 F 81 39 35 74 Last year it was all about "wait until Mikheyev is healthy" and able to be the F1 with his speed. Kuzmenko - 39 goals and 35 assists kinda means he helped out for 35 goals. Seems one of the players needed for Pettersson is already there but Tocchet has a personal issue with him. Hey, just FYI, Kuzmenko played with EP the last win when EP scored a few points. Seems to be... I don't tjink there is a single fan or player, that doesn't like Kuz. Not sure if Tocchets tough love will help Kuz play, or if it something deeper. Regardsless of reason, hopefully it gets sorted out one way or another, as having $5M in the press box is good for nobody. I think, despite what we think, we got to give To chet some lee way. He worked with very good players before and did well, so he earned the right to try different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, YourHuckleberry said: How do you know they’re not trying to move him? Coming out and saying so would tank the value of the return. Maybe they need to pretend they’re trying to work with him to maintain any leverage in negotiations. Sitting him in the press box is tanking his value far more than anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheGuardian said: Hey, I am going to pretend I am Tocchet. So my team just scored 5 goals in the first period and coasted to win. I can't have that, there is no coaching kudos for me! That damned Kuzmenko played twice as good as Boeser again, it was so obvious I have to get him off the ice. I can't have Pettersson too comfortable. When he is playing with Kuz he gets too many chances, best to mix up his line again. I will just say that isn't good enough for a playoff team, they aren't that but the marketing media eat that crap up, they have to stick to the staples, great little phrase I conjured up, "staples" they don't get it, stitches, they keep me in stitches (:D) Messier and Keenan, well I got mine, Miller and Tocchet! We won the last game so let's throw the names in a hat and pull out some new players but keep Kuz's name out. Odd that the team wins' more with him in the lineup? Better make sure the marketing media doesn't say anything about that. Boeser almost got close to a St Louis player on purpose twice. Still floating/coasting around between face off dots. Hughes got caught on both StL goals. Great bench discipline, how many 2 minute shifts? Wasn't he benching players for this kind of stuff? Not sticking to the "staples"? The right way? How much is really Tocchet and how much just an improved and healthy line up? How much is because Tochett called the team out for been out of shape (not in elite shape). Can't have it both ways. 6th where was most "experts" placed us after last season. 3 coaches now ... What the heck does Keenan have to do with it? Tochett is a pussy-cat compared to him, as far as disciplanrian goes. As for Kuzmenko, think they will figure it out still but maybe it's time to make a trade. Edited January 5 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, stawns said: What I see is a player who has abandoned what makes him successful in order to play the style his coach wants him to play and is terrified to take a risk in case he makes a mistake and gets benched. Anyone who thinks he's playing "poorly" is looking at numbers and not watching him play. All that's happening is they are dismantling a successful goal scorer and driving down his value as an asset ...and bingo was his name-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, CanucksJay said: I'm really hoping this is it. It's really unfortunate that kuzy didn't train with a guy like Boeser who seemed to have listened and responded by training the right way this summer. Maybe Milstein is playing ball with management because as Kuz's agent, maybe he didn't give Kuz the right advice this summer and was part of the problem setting Kuz up with a sweet spot in Bali with all his "training tools " when you look at the speed tracking of him, he's slow as molasses in Russian winter: https://edge.nhl.com/en/skater/8483808 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: Maybe, but sometimes you wont get that out of specailists. I think of Bret Hull. Would want him on any team but dont expect a strong defensive player. yep, I understand this. But if you allow Kuzy to do this under Rick's team concept, then why should Boeser make any effort? or Miller? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, spook007 said: Seems to be... I don't tjink there is a single fan or player, that doesn't like Kuz. Not sure if Tocchets tough love will help Kuz play, or if it something deeper. Regardsless of reason, hopefully it gets sorted out one way or another, as having $5M in the press box is good for nobody. I think, despite what we think, we got to give To chet some lee way. He worked with very good players before and did well, so he earned the right to try different things. As an educator I can tell you that you can't use the same tool for every problem. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstorm Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, YourHuckleberry said: How do you know they’re not trying to move him? Coming out and saying so would tank the value of the return. Maybe they need to pretend they’re trying to work with him to maintain any leverage in negotiations. If he’s not on the ice, particularly on this eastern swing, it suggests management is not aggressively trying to sell him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 33 minutes ago, stawns said: It's a coach's issue, imo. I honestly don't see the big issue in Kuz's game.........he might not be a shut down defensive fwd, but he's not bad either. He works hard, forechecks when he has to, but that's not his game either RT is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and that never works........sitting him in the press box for being who he is is a terrible, terrible plan. Either play him and just accept who he is or move him. look at the numbers, objectively. Once we lose possession, he's so slow right now he's not useful on back checking. He might as well not be on the ice at that point. You never accepted that for Boeser, but seem wiling to give Kuzy a pass. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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