[PGT] Vancouver @ St. Louis

[Hammertime]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

Somebody is going to steal Kuzmenko from us. Sure he makes 5.5. But someone is going to get him and he will score goals for them.

I don't see it. They didn't sell low on Brock. I can't see them selling low on Kuzz. He's a project. We have him for 2 years he won't get better if more isn't demanded of him. It's not like we can send him to the AHL. He has to make fundamental changes to be better and he has to do it at the NHL level. That's not easy. 

Edited January 5 by Hammertime

[J-23]

38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

For sure.  Probably 8x7 would do it.  If we trade Kuzmenko and then put Lekkerimäki in the lineup with a cheap ELC contract then there is room for a Guentzel who is a massive playoff performer.  We can win a cup with Guentzel playing with Petey.  We probably don’t even win one round if Lafferty is in the top 6…

I like both of these ideas.

 

I think this is far more important than getting another defenceman right now.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I think it's based off the amount of offense he individually generates.  The PP/PK metrics are admittedly not as accurate as the EV numbers, but it shouldn't surprise folks here that anyone can probably score when Hughes/Pettersson/Miller are feeding the puck to you.

 

New cards for this year will come out after the halfway mark (we're at 38/82 games so far).  I'm sure most of the Canucks will look good.

 

 

 

So the guy who some media pundits are saying may win the Hart trophy has an EV defence of 35%?  And Kuzy needs to be scratched when he’s at 53%?  This makes no sense.  I knew Panarin was bad defensively but I didn’t know he was this bad.  

 

At this point, Kuzy just needs to ask for a trade.  If 53% isn’t good enough for Tocchet for a pure goal scorer then Kuzy needs to take his offensive skills to another team…

[Wiggums]

34 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

If we trade our first, then we don’t have a pick till round three. Our prospect depth has improved but it could still use more help. I expect a ‘hockey trade’ for a bigger winger but want to keep our first rounder. 

 

We're a top team, with big impending raises and buyouts coming in..  Will we be in a much better position in the future?  We could be and maybe that's the plan from management,  I really don't know.

[wai_lai416]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

 

Look carefully at the number of games played.  It combines his numbers from last year.  The change% is a slightly better indicator of how he's done this season.  Obviously his defending has dropped way down.  New cards for strictly 23-24 will be up soon.

so whats' EP's PP at?? if 19 points is 2% last season.. ep only have 25 points and prolly way more PP mins.. is he also at 2% or less?? these score cards literally make 0 sense.. and really especially on defence.. why is Kuzmenko defence rating so high last season when he really didn't change much?

[Blue]

1 minute ago, Hammertime said:

I don't see it. They didn't sell low on Brock. I can't see them selling low on Kuzz. He's a project. We have him for 2 years he won't get better if more isn't demanded of him.

39 goals. And also, he wasn't benched for lack of scoring or points. He'll go to a team that knows how to utilize one way goal scorers. Maybe New York will be interested. If they can make Panarin work, they can make Kuzy work.

[Dom]

Wings take the lead 3-2. 

 

& tied... fk me lol

Edited January 5 by Dom

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

39 goals. And also, he wasn't benched for lack of scoring or points. He'll go to a team that knows how to utilize one way goal scorers. Maybe New York will be interested. If they can make Panarin work, they can make Kuzy work.

 

I think Tampa might be interested in Kuzy.  Milstein’s top clients play for Tampa, I could see Kuzy lighting it up in Tampa.  And he will love living in Florida with his Russian buddies…

[Kragar]

2 hours ago, 27 Percent said:

This. And the PP let us down huge. Again.

Huge?  We had one PP.

[Captkirk888]

12 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

There was that rumor about Monahan being that guy. Maybe its not just a rumour?

 

Let’s pray it was.

 

Actually we may have got it wrong about Petey being our Franchise #1 Center? 

Having Miller #1 and Bo #2 Centers may have worked, especially Cap wise.

We always thought Petey was going to develope into this Elite #1 Center but so far that hasn't panned out. Yes the possibilty is still there but a Miiler/Bo might have provided a more balanced offense and defense in our top 6. 

Not saying it should have happened just saying that it might have worked out. 

 

 

[Dom]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I think Tampa might be interested in Kuzy.  Milstein’s top clients play for Tampa, I could see Kuzy lighting it up in Tampa.  And he will love living in Florida with his Russian buddies…

Nobody on Tampa that helps this team right now unless they're giving us Stamkos/Point and I doubt that happens lol

[tas]

17 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

There was that rumor about Monahan being that guy. Maybe its not just a rumour?

 

 

Actually we may have got it wrong about Petey being our Franchise #1 Center? 

Having Miller #1 and Bo #2 Centers may have worked, especially Cap wise.

We always thought Petey was going to develope into this Elite #1 Center but so far that hasn't panned out. Yes the possibilty is still there but a Miiler/Bo might have provided a more balanced offense and defense in our top 6. 

Not saying it should have happened just saying that it might have worked out. 

 

i don't understand the premise. petey is certainly not at his best but he is still substantially better than bo both offensively and defensively. 

[stawns]

18 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I like both of these ideas.

 

I think this is far more important than getting another defenceman right now.

 

Lek is two years from being ready for any kind of NHL duty, imo.

Edited January 5 by stawns

[Hammertime]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

39 goals. And also, he wasn't benched for lack of scoring or points. He'll go to a team that knows how to utilize one way goal scorers. Maybe New York will be interested. If they can make Panarin work, they can make Kuzy work.

I don't think it's that they don't know how to use him. It's quite obvious he can score. 

 

We are currently witnessing the Brock feel good story. Let's enjoy that. 

 

The byproduct is Kuzmenko bootcamp. It will be good for Kuz. 

 

Both Kuz and Brock is filthy rich depth. Guentzel would be gluttony shipping Kuz as part of that would be short gains. 

 

 

[Miss Korea]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So the guy who some media pundits are saying may win the Hart trophy has an EV defence of 35%?  And Kuzy needs to be scratched when he’s at 53%?  This makes no sense.  I knew Panarin was bad defensively but I didn’t know he was this bad.  

 

At this point, Kuzy just needs to ask for a trade.  If 53% isn’t good enough for Tocchet for a pure goal scorer then Kuzy needs to take his offensive skills to another team…

 

It's more the -18% you should be paying attention to.  In 33 games, his EV defence has dropped 18%.  That means when the new cards come out, I imagine it will be in the low 20s or something.

 

As for Panarin, his defending isn't atrocious - he's never really focused on that part of the game.  He's just okay, and primarily helps the team with his insane playmaking skills.  There's east coast bias for sure, but Panarin is New York's MVP by a country mile.  They are first in the NHL thanks to him.

 

10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

so whats' EP's PP at?? if 19 points is 2% last season.. ep only have 25 points and prolly way more PP mins.. is he also at 2% or less?? these score cards literally make 0 sense.. and really especially on defence.. why is Kuzmenko defence rating so high last season when he really didn't change much?

 

Hey, I'm not saying it's a perfect system.  There are some statisticians here who are firmly against JFresh's WAR model.  I know there are limitations to it, but it's fun to look at and it sometimes highlights things I miss due to personal bias.

 

But in any case, when numbers reach an extreme, it does tell a pretty strong story.  Kuzmenko has clearly struggled defensively this year in a way that was not apparent last year.  In fact, most of the success he enjoyed was under Bruce Boudreau.  Tocchet seemed to dislike Kuzy from day one.  Even more bizarre to see the Canucks re-sign him after Tocchet was brought in.

 

[fanfor42]

9 minutes ago, tas said:

Tocchet needs to play Kuzmenlo until he either regains his touch as a scoring star or proves he's no longer that guy.

 

No coach in any league of any sport can get scoring out of doing this. So this won't get him. Scoring. 

 

AND Kuz is not a 2 way player. He is a goal scorer.

 

Tocchet is a meat head on this issue

 

 

[Vancan]

5 minutes ago, Dom said:

Nobody on Tampa that helps this team right now unless they're giving us Stamkos/Point and I doubt that happens lol

 

That's the bitch of it!! Lots here are trade kuz for this that and that or whatever else our needs may be. Its not that easy! Teams rebuilding don't want an older. unproven, possibly overpaid 20 year old. Teams in the mushy middle don't want an older an older, unproven, possibly over paid 20 year old. Contenders like us don't want an.... See where this is going? 

[fanfor42]

I want Kuz as a Canuck. 

 

Coaches need to figure out how to get back to the fantastic player he was less than a year ago.

[Hammertime]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

It's more the -18% you should be paying attention to.  In 33 games, his EV defence has dropped 18%.  That means when the new cards come out, I imagine it will be in the low 20s or something.

 

As for Panarin, his defending isn't atrocious - he's never really focused on that part of the game.  He's just okay, and primarily helps the team with his insane playmaking skills.  There's east coast bias for sure, but Panarin is New York's MVP by a country mile.  They are first in the NHL thanks to him.

 

 

Hey, I'm not saying it's a perfect system.  There are some statisticians here who are firmly against JFresh's WAR model.  I know there are limitations to it, but it's fun to look at and it sometimes highlights things I miss due to personal bias.

 

But in any case, when numbers reach an extreme, it does tell a pretty strong story.  Kuzmenko has clearly struggled defensively this year in a way that was not apparent last year.  In fact, most of the success he enjoyed was under Bruce Boudreau.  Tocchet seemed to dislike Kuzy from day one.  Even more bizarre to see the Canucks re-sign him after Tocchet was brought in.

 

The J fresh cards are a useful guide not gospel there are many flaws but the numbers do tell a story if you also use your eyes and common sense. Thanks @Miss Korea for posting them for discussion. 

 

 

 

 

[tas]

8 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Tocchet needs to play Kuzmenlo until he either regains his touch as a scoring star or proves he's no longer that guy.

 

No coach in any league of any sport can get scoring out of doing this. So this won't get him. Scoring. 

 

AND Kuz is not a 2 way player. He is a goal scorer.

 

Tocchet is a meat head on this issue

 

 

what you're describing is what a bad coach would do, not this year's inevitable coach of the year winner. 

Edited January 5 by tas

[Kragar]

[wai_lai416]

3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

It's more the -18% you should be paying attention to.  In 33 games, his EV defence has dropped 18%.  That means when the new cards come out, I imagine it will be in the low 20s or something.

 

As for Panarin, his defending isn't atrocious - he's never really focused on that part of the game.  He's just okay, and primarily helps the team with his insane playmaking skills.  There's east coast bias for sure, but Panarin is New York's MVP by a country mile.  They are first in the NHL thanks to him.

 

 

Hey, I'm not saying it's a perfect system.  There are some statisticians here who are firmly against JFresh's WAR model.  I know there are limitations to it, but it's fun to look at and it sometimes highlights things I miss due to personal bias.

 

But in any case, when numbers reach an extreme, it does tell a pretty strong story.  Kuzmenko has clearly struggled defensively this year in a way that was not apparent last year.  In fact, most of the success he enjoyed was under Bruce Boudreau.  Tocchet seemed to dislike Kuzy from day one.  Even more bizarre to see the Canucks re-sign him after Tocchet was brought in.

 

oh i already know tocchet doesn't like kuzmenko since day 1 despite he was still producing under him.. if tocchet was the GM boeser kuzmenko would have been sent packing already and he fill the lineup full of garland and grind their way to victory every night. the biggest thing i don't like about tocchet coaching style is his lack of creativity and imagination.. the hughes/hronek pairing haven't looked great defensively for quite some times now yet he refuse to split them up and try something new.. the Miller/boeser line haven't been all that great in games lately.. like i dunno split them up maybe and try something else.. but let's just leave them intact even though they have done nothing and keep marching them back out to do nothing.. literally the whole season the only line juggling he have done is with EP.. he haven't touched the boeser miller or the hronek hughes combo once.. ok maybe he did once when he benched miller.. play EP with the hughes pairing more if we ain't going to give him any wingers to play with.. play a more defensive pairing with Miller.. they are our top "shutdown" line.. Hughes and Hronek are not your "shutdown" defenceman.. they easily get exposed against the good teams 

[Hammertime]

4 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

I want Kuz as a Canuck. 

 

Coaches need to figure out how to get back to the fantastic player he was less than a year ago.

Take Brock out of the line up. But don't actually. Brock is doing great I'm so fucking happy as a Canucks fan and a fan of Brock. 

 

I'm kind of with Tocchet on this let's ride the roller coaster there might be a twist coming. 

[wai_lai416]

5 minutes ago, tas said:

what you're describing is what a bad coach would do, not this year's inevitable coach of the year winner. 

inevitable?? torts have done 10x more amazing job than tocchet have up to this point on a team thats not even close on paper and was destined for a lottery pick... and embarassed the canucks in both games this season. 

[Vancan]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

oh i already know tocchet doesn't like kuzmenko since day 1 despite he was still producing under him.. if tocchet was the GM boeser kuzmenko would have been sent packing already and he fill the lineup full of garland and grind their way to victory every night. the biggest thing i don't like about tocchet coaching style is his lack of creativity and imagination.. the hughes/hronek pairing haven't looked great defensively for quite some times now yet he refuse to split them up and try something new.. the Miller/boeser line haven't been all that great in games lately.. like i dunno split them up maybe and try something else.. but let's just leave them intact even though they have done nothing and keep marching them back out to do nothing.. literally the whole season the only line juggling he have done is with EP.. he haven't touched the boeser miller or the hronek hughes combo once.. ok maybe he did once when he benched miller.. play EP with the hughes pairing more if we ain't going to give him any wingers to play with.. play a more defensive pairing with Miller.. they are our top "shutdown" line.. Hughes and Hronek are not your "shutdown" defenceman.. they easily get exposed against the good teams 

 

Pretty sure Bruce scratched and benched Kuz to. Coincidence???