CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Great post. As long as Tocc knows he is in uncharted waters for his own development too, we are still gonna continue to kick ass. Ownership, accountability are huge things for RT so I hope he practices what he preaches. Nothing worse than having a coach or a boss who is stubborn and doesn't see his own mistakes while calling out everyone else. As you stated, he's in uncharted waters I don't think he's been the head coach of such a successful team before. I'm sure we'll see growth in his coaching abilities as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, Bob Long said: when you look at the speed tracking of him, he's slow as molasses in Russian winter: https://edge.nhl.com/en/skater/8483808 yep, I understand this. But if you allow Kuzy to do this under Rick's team concept, then why should Boeser make any effort? or Miller? They can't all be the same player, or even play the same way. Different parts make up a good engine, different ingredients make a great cake. I want to always strive to make them more well rounded but also sometimes it's good to lean into strengths and protect weaknesses. There are physical attributes to consider along with traits that are just how the player has garnered success developing from being a child. Work with the type of wood you have, if you force it too much you're gonna get cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, stawns said: Sitting him in the press box is tanking his value far more than anything They're not trading him, so does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: look at the numbers, objectively. Once we lose possession, he's so slow right now he's not useful on back checking. He might as well not be on the ice at that point. You never accepted that for Boeser, but seem wiling to give Kuzy a pass. The point wasn't whether RT is wrong or right about kuz, the point is this is a terrible situation all around and they either have to play him or move him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I dont know how he's supposed to get into a rhythm Under a microscope with more weight on him than most players on the squad. It's the smile. Too happy for Tocc. Confident people must be tough and grumpy. This is the old school way! That's an assumption. We have little data. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: They can't all be the same player, or even play the same way. Different parts make up a good engine, different ingredients make a great cake. I want to always strive to make them more well rounded but also sometimes it's good to lean into strengths and protect weaknesses. There are physical attributes to consider along with traits that are just how the player has garnered success developing from being a child. Work with the type of wood you have, if you force it too much you're gonna get cracks. In my classroom, I have 28 kids and 28 different ways of dealing with them. For every lesson, I create about 8 different plans and assignments because they all learn differently. Tocchet needs to understand that concept........it's easier for one person to adjust their thinking than it is for 23 people to do it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, IBatch said: That's an assumption. We have little data. Oh for sure. But the data we do have is...Kuz is getting scratched, and the bit of knowedge some of us old school fans have is telling us that it seems a bit off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelPiLeo Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Coaching team needs to figure out how to get our top six players going, including Kuz. It’s very obvious that they are playing below the par for a while already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, stawns said: In my classroom, I have 28 kids and 28 different ways of dealing with them. For every lesson, I create about 8 different plans and assignments because they all learn differently. Tocchet needs to understand that concept........it's easier for one person to adjust their thinking than it is for 23 people to do it. Sounds like a lot of work. I believe they're teaching Kuzy behind the scenes. He seems to need special attention to fix his game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, stawns said: In my classroom, I have 28 kids and 28 different ways of dealing with them. For every lesson, I create about 8 different plans and assignments because they all learn differently. Tocchet needs to understand that concept........it's easier for one person to adjust their thinking than it is for 23 people to do it. I totally get that. Our karate club competed alot. We were a very successful dojo. Many different paths to the podium. Like Tocc it would drive our Sensei a bit nuts as he wanted us all to be well rounded, but he knew that some just had to fight to the beat of a different drum to achieve success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, Barnstorm said: If he’s not on the ice, particularly on this eastern swing, it suggests management is not aggressively trying to sell him. That is true. AB was getting lots of time before we traded him and he wasn't doing much to warrant it. To an extent, so was Garland but now he's too valuable to trade lol I hope not playing Kuz is a sign that we're not showcasing Kuz for a trade. It really could be as simple as RT, Gonchar and co telling him this is the time to work on his game because he'll be huge for us in the playoffs when we absolutely need him to be. That would fire me up to train harder and not be a bag of negativity while sitting in the PB. Who knows? Maybe RT and the staff already have a plan in place with Kuzy and Milstein to bring him around slowly with a higher chance of success in sticking with this team. Work hard during practice and play him in the softer games where he can be more comfortable doing things like be the F1 hard on a forecheck when the stakes aren't as high so he doesn't abandon from the game plan and finds success. Once he masters that level, he'll start playing in the more grinding physical games. Funny thing is, at hand no idea what's going on internally and we're complaining or speculating about things we have no idea about. The last we heard was from Milstein saying that Kuz is fine and buying in with what the staff wants and is committed to training hard. I hope that is still the case and that is what's happening behind the scenes 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: They can't all be the same player, or even play the same way. Different parts make up a good engine, different ingredients make a great cake. I want to always strive to make them more well rounded but also sometimes it's good to lean into strengths and protect weaknesses. There are physical attributes to consider along with traits that are just how the player has garnered success developing from being a child. Work with the type of wood you have, if you force it too much you're gonna get cracks. Agreed, but the way that speed has become so vital in the NHL the floor for that is higher than ever. The more I think about it, the more I think this is about conditioning. Which to me is a good thing as he can improve that, and it aligns with JRs comments which are almost always on point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, Nucker67 said: Sounds like a lot of work. I believe they're teaching Kuzy behind the scenes. He seems to need special attention to fix his game. Teaching involves practical application.......im not seeing that part. Teaching without practical application ceases to become teaching and becomes preaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, stawns said: The point wasn't whether RT is wrong or right about kuz, the point is this is a terrible situation all around and they either have to play him or move him. No there is a third option, improve his conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Playing EP with grinders is all part of the plan. The less talent we give EP the more he struggles the more the management can lowball him lol it’s all going according to plan. Need to play him more with Myers instead of Hughes 5v5 so he can’t go off and end up at 110+ points and demand that big contract. Maybe this is what the management want. As long as they are in the playoff.. playing EP with grinders will help the Canucks case in contract negotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Agreed, but the way that speed has become so vital in the NHL the floor for that is higher than ever. The more I think about it, the more I think this is about conditioning. Which to me is a good thing as he can improve that, and it aligns with JRs comments which are almost always on point. I dont dig JR. for a few reasons but the man hired some decent pieces. He said Kuz was in good condition though, right? just didnt train the proper hockey type stuff though... Probably Kuz focused too much on boxing, smiliing and having a healthy summer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheGuardian said: 1 Elias Pettersson 24 C 80 39 63 102 4 Andrei Kuzmenko 26 F 81 39 35 74 Last year it was all about "wait until Mikheyev is healthy" and able to be the F1 with his speed. Kuzmenko - 39 goals and 35 assists kinda means he helped out for 35 goals. Seems one of the players needed for Pettersson is already there but Tocchet has a personal issue with him. Hey, just FYI, Kuzmenko played with EP the last win when EP scored a few points. I tend to agree, however, can't help thinking there's more to it. For example; Tocchet runs his practices in a very specific way. The thought has occurred to me the coach doesn't want any pissing around during them and Kuz does like to joke around a bit. Whatever, it's definitely something about his demeanor. Edited January 5 by Rip The Mesh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, stawns said: Teaching involves practical application.......im not seeing that part. Teaching without practical application ceases to become teaching and becomes preaching Practical application doesn't mean playing every game. It could mean spot duty in games where staff thinks he'll have a high chance of success which could actually build him up and give him more confidence to continue doing what they are "teaching". Funny that we love that the new development path is letting guys cook and bringing them up slowly but then we can't handle them doing that with Kuz at the NHL level. We have no idea how Kuz feels about all this. Ofcourse he wants to play (as all players do) but 2 very different mindsets will determine what happens next. He can listen, buy in and work hard during practice and do his best to show well when he's in games or he can get frustrated and complain and then get traded. So far he's been in the first camp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I dont dig JR. for a few reasons but the man hired some decent pieces. He said Kuz was in good condition though, right? just didnt train the proper hockey type stuff though... Probably Kuz focused too much on boxing, smiliing and having a healthy summer. To me, it feels like they "advised" him on how they wanted him to train over the summer and decided to go his own way and they're flexing their muscle and control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Playing EP with grinders is all part of the plan. The less talent we give EP the more he struggles the more the management can lowball him lol it’s all going according to plan. Need to play him more with Myers instead of Hughes 5v5 so he can’t go off and end up at 110+ points and demand that big contract. Maybe this is what the management want. As long as they are in the playoff.. playing EP with grinders will help the Canucks case in contract negotiation. Lol yeah, ppl were saying 12.5m for EP earlier in the season. Now we are scoffing at 9.5m Once Petey signs, watch us surround him with better talent lol I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. He's not good enough to carry his line yet so he should be paid accordingly and leave money on the table to get him better linemates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Practical application doesn't mean playing every game. It could mean spot duty in games where staff thinks he'll have a high chance of success which could actually build him up and give him more confidence to continue doing what they are "teaching". Funny that we love that the new development path is letting guys cook and bringing them up slowly but then we can't handle them doing that with Kuz at the NHL level. We have no idea how Kuz feels about all this. Ofcourse he wants to play (as all players do) but 2 very different mindsets will determine what happens next. He can listen, buy in and work hard during practice and do his best to show well when he's in games or he can get frustrated and complain and then get traded. So far he's been in the first camp. He's a $5m, 39 goal, 74 point player. You don't sit that in the press box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Lol yeah, ppl were saying 12.5m for EP earlier in the season. Now we are scoffing at 9.5m Once Petey signs, watch us surround him with better talent lol I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. He's not good enough to carry his line yet so he should be paid accordingly and leave money on the table to get him better linemates He can carry a line with some talents.. I don’t think he can carry 2 grinders and 2 defensive defenceman or the chaos giraffe. That’s kind of what he’s playing with atm. Swap miller with ep miller prolly struggle as hard if not worse the other concern is ep looks disinterested with all these grinders.. he might just say forget it I’ll take the 1 year and try my luck in ufa with another team Edited January 5 by wai_lai416 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, stawns said: He's a $5m, 39 goal, 74 point player. You don't sit that in the press box. You do if you want him to rebuild his game to play a more complete game. They're trying to build a championship team. That means no holes in the top 6 and a defensively solid team. I would rather they sit him now to teach when playoffs are pretty much secured than sit him during the playoffs because he's a defensive liability. My hope is that we see him in every single playoff game. I love that management isn't chasing reg season stats. It's about playing the right way and building this team for the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: He can carry a line with some talents.. I don’t think he can carry 2 grinders and 2 defensive defenceman or the chaos giraffe. That’s kind of what he’s playing with atm. Swap miller with ep miller prolly struggle as hard if not worse the other concern is ep looks disinterested with all these grinders.. he might just say forget it I’ll take the 1 year and try my luck in ufa with another team I think it's time to let go of the Myers tropes. He's had a solid season so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: He can carry a line with some talents.. I don’t think he can carry 2 grinders and 2 defensive defenceman or the chaos giraffe. That’s kind of what he’s playing with atm. Swap miller with ep miller prolly struggle as hard if not worse the other concern is ep looks disinterested with all these grinders.. he might just say forget it I’ll take the 1 year and try my luck in ufa with another team I would actually love to see EP on a line with Hogz and Boeser. If he blows up, great, pay him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.