CanucksJay Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 13 minutes ago, stawns said: I've been scratched and I assure you there's nothing positive about it To be very blunt, it wasn't positive because you didn't have the skill or the mental fortitude to fight through it and make it. Even if you had the skills and raw talent, you'd also need the mental toughness to bear down and train harder. Those are the guys that make it. Kuz has already "made it". He's playing in the best league in the world. He's put up 39 goals. Right now, it's not about him scoring goals. Its about him being a responsible player being worthy of getting top 6 minutes on a top 5 team in the best league in the world. He can choose to work on what the staff is telling him to do so that he can be a key member of a championship team or he can mope and get traded to a place like Columbus and be the next poor man's Laine. Luckily so far, Kuz's attitude seems great compared to some on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Marsh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 17 hours ago, Joe King said: I only brought it up because two posters where making a bet. At that time the bet was based on wins and loses there was no mention of ties. So if overtime loses or shootouts loses couldn't be considered loses,What they would considered as for this particular bet. But to answer your question I personally consider it a loss. Loser point . Loser of the extracurricular, yes, but not the game itself (in regulation.) That's why the OT/SO wins are labeled as such as well. All just a matter of organizing data really. If you want to focus on the "loser" aspect that's fine. I obviously see it differently. I see your point about the bet though. Fair enough. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 19 hours ago, TheGuardian said: Not as much as head coach. What or how is "Did well" calculated? What does it mean? Out of shape at the start of the season? Those games they won? And now 3 months later it is an issue? Keenan? Well that coaching group kinda included Messier helping to make decisions. Tocchet may be leaning on Miller, just an observation. In the "old" days a coach could afford to have a personal issue about a player but team's cannot afford to play by the mood of the coach. Watching the games it is clear that Kuzmenko's play has nothing to do with benching. Virtually every thing he is accused of is FIRST, common in the game by all players And SECOND Kuz plays where Tocchet's mood allows him to play. To say Kuz doesn't play in the 3rd period because of Tocchet's feelings. Kuz mostly not many shifts in the 3rd? Wow take a look, the team is out chanced a lot when he is not on the ice. 6th? Not that I can remember for this year. I kept hearing more than possible playoff spot. Well, he was on Penguins coaching coaching staff, when they won the cup in 2016 and 2017... His GM at the time, thought he would be a great coach for Canucks. A GM, that led a team to the SC 3 times... Forgive me, but I believe he knows more about Hockey, Tocchet and the way to coach than anyone else here on these boards x 100... As for 'watching the games'... utter rubbish. What you know about, what is being said and done behind the scenes during Kuz benching... You don't even know, what he is being accused of... Its all speculation. So by watching the games, you think you know more than the coaching staff? Did you watch the game last night v Jersey... Lotto line together again and creating/scoring for fun, while being defensively responsible. Maybe just maybe the coaching staff think they can get 2 great lines, if they can get 5% more out of Kuz defensively. Kuz, who looked good again offensively had a lot of ice time... more than the the 'goal scoring 3rd line'. So its obviously not just about being in the dog house for Kuzmenko. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/7/2024 at 4:04 AM, spook007 said: Well, he was on Penguins coaching coaching staff, when they won the cup in 2016 and 2017... His GM at the time, thought he would be a great coach for Canucks. A GM, that led a team to the SC 3 times... Forgive me, but I believe he knows more about Hockey, Tocchet and the way to coach than anyone else here on these boards x 100... As for 'watching the games'... utter rubbish. What you know about, what is being said and done behind the scenes during Kuz benching... You don't even know, what he is being accused of... Its all speculation. So by watching the games, you think you know more than the coaching staff? Did you watch the game last night v Jersey... Lotto line together again and creating/scoring for fun, while being defensively responsible. Maybe just maybe the coaching staff think they can get 2 great lines, if they can get 5% more out of Kuz defensively. Kuz, who looked good again offensively had a lot of ice time... more than the the 'goal scoring 3rd line'. So its obviously not just about being in the dog house for Kuzmenko. Head coach? No, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn! So what did he learn from that time with the Pens? Bench players for unidentifiable issues on the ice when leading the league in points nd scoring! Just wait until there is losing!!!!! Then he will .....bench more players? He kind of painted himself into a corner, benching when winning doesn't leave a lot more when losing starts. So by watching the games, you think you know more than the coaching staff? I get a giggle out fans that seem to think hockey is rocket science. Do you need to know how to solve the Pythagorean Theorem to be in hockey? What isn't known is the "old boyz club" stuff. Virtually everything else is available on the internet. from wiki; Team Year Regular season Postseason G W L OTL Pts Finish W L Win% Result TBL 2008–09 66 19 33 14 (52) 5th in Southeast — — — Missed playoffs TBL 2009–10 82 34 36 12 80 4th in Southeast — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2017–18 82 29 41 12 70 8th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2018–19 82 39 35 8 86 4th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2019–20 70* 33 29 8 74 5th in Pacific 4 5 .444 Lost in First Round (COL) ARI 2020–21 56 24 26 6 54 5th in West — — — Missed playoffs VAN 2022–23 36 20 12 4 (44) 6th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs Total 474 198 212 64 4 5 .444 1 playoff appearance Shortened season due to the COVID-19 pandemic during the 2019–20 season. Playoffs were played in August 2020 with a different format. As far as what is seen on the ice? Isn't that what Tocchet wants the fans to see? Is it not his "plan", his "right way"? I see four players playing that are a similar. I see one player not setting up as many chances. Same player with more give aways. Same player actually coasting. Same player not back checking Same player not fore checking enough and late mostly. Same player almost every game. So by what standard is the "right way"? What do you know about me? Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, TheGuardian said: Head coach? No, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn! So what did he learn from that time with the Pens? Bench players for unidentifiable issues on the ice when leading the league in points nd scoring! Just wait until there is losing!!!!! Then he will .....bench more players? He kind of painted himself into a corner, benching when winning doesn't leave a lot more when losing starts. So by watching the games, you think you know more than the coaching staff? I get a giggle out fans that seem to think hockey is rocket science. Do you need to know how to solve the Pythagorean Theorem to be in hockey? What isn't known is the "old boyz club" stuff. Virtually everything else is available on the internet. from wiki; Team Year Regular season Postseason G W L OTL Pts Finish W L Win% Result TBL 2008–09 66 19 33 14 (52) 5th in Southeast — — — Missed playoffs TBL 2009–10 82 34 36 12 80 4th in Southeast — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2017–18 82 29 41 12 70 8th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2018–19 82 39 35 8 86 4th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs ARI 2019–20 70* 33 29 8 74 5th in Pacific 4 5 .444 Lost in First Round (COL) ARI 2020–21 56 24 26 6 54 5th in West — — — Missed playoffs VAN 2022–23 36 20 12 4 (44) 6th in Pacific — — — Missed playoffs Total 474 198 212 64 4 5 .444 1 playoff appearance Shortened season due to the COVID-19 pandemic during the 2019–20 season. Playoffs were played in August 2020 with a different format. As far as what is seen on the ice? Isn't that what Tocchet wants the fans to see? Is it not his "plan", his "right way"? I see four players playing that are a similar. I see one player not setting up as many chances. Same player with more give aways. Same player actually coasting. Same player not back checking Same player not fore checking enough and late mostly. Same player almost every game. So by what standard is the "right way"? What do you know about me? Nothing. Give a man a shit roster at Arizona, and say he is a shit coach because he only lead them to play offs once... He is a few more stats about the man... Has led the Canucks to the best start ever in a season At the half way stage they are the best team in goals for, best team in goal differential and the team that has held the lead for most minutes... This with a team most 'pundit' oe 'experts' thought would struggle to make the play offs as a wild card team... I think we can quickly agree this is a massive improvement on the last 10 years... yes? On top of that the President of the club, who has led 2 teams to 3 Stanley Cups, think he is the right coach for the Vancouver Canucks. He has had him on his staff, while he was a GM, so forgive me, but I think he knows a lot more about Tocchet the coach than you and definitely I do. If this roll continues, he will be in the Jack Adams conversation at least, if not favourite for it.... Benching a player... cry me a river... Happens regularly. He want the players to play in a certain way, and tries using the tools available to achieve that... Its not like you and me coming up with things they should do, only to change the subject, when we are wrong, and move to something else... He lives and dies by his decision.... As for Kuzmenko, Like me, you don't have a clue, what is being said behind the scenes. You have no idea if it is going to work or not, and you see a player that is worse than Kuzmenko.... That is, what you see. I see a coach, who wants his players to attack as a team, and defend as team. No passengers... They are not even in their speeds or skills, but as long as you try, you'll get rewarded. If you don't, you may get benched. Simples really... Maybe Tocchet doesn't like Kuzmenkos aftershave, or he said something about Tocchets wife in the showers. Who knows, fact is Tocchet benched his several times, and I'd like to think its because he thinks he can get him to be a better player for the team, than he is. As for lets see, when he starts losing... How about we deal with that once we start losing. Are you really suggesting he shouldn't bench a player because they are winning... That is back to letting the inmates run the asylum... If you want your players to play in a certain way, you instruct them and then it's their job to follow your instructions, as far as possible. If they don't you take them off and let them ride the pine, or you put them in the press box... it really is that simple. Edited January 8 by spook007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: Well I know , you think an awful lot about yourself... Give a man a shit roster at Arizona, and say he is a shit coach because he only lead them to play offs once... He is a few more stats about the man... Has led the Canucks to the best start ever in a season At the half way stage they are the best team in goals for, best team in goal differential and the team that has held the lead for most minutes... This with a team most 'pundit' oe 'experts' thought would struggle to make the play offs as a wild card team... I think we can quickly agree this is a massive improvement on the last 10 years... yes? On top of that the President of the club, who has led 2 teams to 3 Stanley Cups, think he is the right coach for the Vancouver Canucks. He has had him on his staff, while he was a GM, so forgive me, but I think he knows a lot more about Tocchet the coach than you and definitely I do. If this roll continues, he will be in the Jack Adams conversation at least, if not favourite for it.... Benching a player... cry me a river... Happens regularly. He want the players to play in a certain way, and tries using the tools available to achieve that... Its not like you and me coming up with things they should do, only to change the subject, when we are wrong, and move to something else... He lives and dies by his decision.... As for Kuzmenko, Like me, you don't have a clue, what is being said behind the scenes. You have no idea if it is going to work or not, and you see a player that is worse than Kuzmenko.... That is, what you see. I see a coach, who wants his players to attack as a team, and defend as team. No passengers... They are not even in their speeds or skills, but as long as you try, you'll get rewarded. If you don't, you may get benched. Simples really... Maybe Tocchet doesn't like Kuzmenkos aftershave, or he said something about Tocchets wife in the showers. Who knows, fact is Tocchet benched his several times, and I'd like to think its because he thinks he can get him to be a better player for the team, than he is. As for lets see, when he starts losing... How about we deal with that once we start losing. Are you really suggesting he shouldn't bench a player because they are winning... That is back to letting the inmates run the asylum... If you want your players to play in a certain way, you instruct them and then it's their job to follow your instructions, as far as possible. If they don't you take them off and let them ride the pine, or you put them in the press box... it really is that simple. Relax a bit eh? You have your world. Obviously it's sheltered. I keep a lot about myself private. Sometimes privacy and being known for keeping secrets, well you hear a little more. Ever been to the Mountain Shadow? Delaney's? The Kuzmenko benching? Is all you see is Kuz sitting on the bench? No ramifications? That is why comparing him to Boeser and the lack of effort by Boeser that Kuz got crucified for because that does make a difference in the new cap ruled NHL and free agency. I hear a lot of "he is a defensive liability" and yet his numbers are not all that bad considering who he gets to play with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 50 minutes ago, TheGuardian said: Relax a bit eh? You have your world. Obviously it's sheltered. I keep a lot about myself private. Sometimes privacy and being known for keeping secrets, well you hear a little more. Ever been to the Mountain Shadow? Delaney's? The Kuzmenko benching? Is all you see is Kuz sitting on the bench? No ramifications? That is why comparing him to Boeser and the lack of effort by Boeser that Kuz got crucified for because that does make a difference in the new cap ruled NHL and free agency. I hear a lot of "he is a defensive liability" and yet his numbers are not all that bad considering who he gets to play with Cheers, I am relaxed Nope to the Mountain shadow or Delaney's... unfortunately not. And sheltered life? good one... Its not just about defensive liability... It's about making him a better player. If Tocchet can add 5-10% to Kuzmenkos game, he is on to a winner, and he obviously think, he can... its his job to get the best out of all the available players, without letting the team loose like Bruce did... Can I just add that Boeser has actually added a bit to his game. I'm not sure you'll get much more out of Boeser than they are now, hence the reason there were a lot of trade proposals with him last season. I don't know, what is right or wrong, and I don't try to pretend, I do, but as long as Tocchet has the team playing like now, he has my full confidence, and I support the decisions made regarding the players. Maybe Tocchet wants Kuz to play a heavier game, than he can, in which case he will be traded and a heavy playing top 6 player will be acquired instead... if that is, what he wants... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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