Rick Tocchet's treatment of Kuzmenko is starting to get upsetting

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, Devron said:

Maybe. Can they continue a 50 point pace. They are a great line but 3rd line they are in my option. We could have 2 top scoring lines too. I don’t know. 

Correction. We could have 3 great scoring lines and a REALLY good 4th line that contributes too. As has been mentioned, benching Kuz robs the 4th of a very good role player too...making that line AND the top1/2 line less effective.

[Comox Blaster]

Our powerplay, or lack of power is a concern right now.  If it was successful only 1/4 of the time we would be winning or at least getting points out of several of the losses we have incurred.  Putting Kuz our there gives the defense nightmares as he is hard to move, especially near the net.  He also has a great shot and can distribute the puck quite well.  I agree with most of the posters that the coaches need to let him find his game and play him with the best players.  Right now it is only the third line that is pulling their weight.  Boeser, JT, Petey, and others have all gone silent.

[Blue]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Despite Kuzmenko's mediocre play to begin the season (which if we're being honest, wasn't really *that* bad), Pettersson had 20 points in the first 10 games. Is it coincidence that Petey's game started to drop ever since Tocchet started treating Kuzmenko like Lonny Bohonos?  

Peteys attitude started to change a bit when the Kuzy was started getting the Ballard treatment. 

 

Petey and him became pretty good friends. 

 

 

 

 

[Rubik]

2 hours ago, kettlevalley said:

I agree we need his scoring and having Karlsson come from the farm and start over him is concerning.

 

Coaches also want to (and should) reward players for playing well in Abby. If Tocchet thinks Kuzy is the odd man out currently, he will not hesitate to put Karlsson in over him.

[OldFaithfulcap]

 

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-coffee-the-kuzmenko-story-needs-a-conclusion

[DrJockitch]

After every loss. 
 

The hardest thing to get is stars and we have good ones at all the important positions. 
When those stars aren’t the biggest guys you surround them with a lot of big fast guys that can get in on the forecheck, create havoc and get those stars the puck. 
‘This is how JR has always built, it is how PA is building. Tocchet FITS that brand of hockey and the President/GM’s vision of the team. 
Twitchy wasn’t a bad coach , he got a bad team. Tocchet is coming into a team that has played Green’s defensive shell and sucked, has played BB’s free wheeling and sucked. So now they are going with what TB, Colorado and Vegas won with. 

At this level coaching is more about fit than quality, they are all good to great coaches. Look at what Torts did for CBJ and Philly, he fits the underdog. 
‘Team is in progress. Every rumour is we are looking for more size and speed.  

[timberz21]

Tocchet isn't alone, basically every coach in the history of the NHL either has a very low-profile favorite (Megna) or high-profile black sheep (Kuzmenko).  This isn't new or an anomaly, happens often.  I can name Tyler Seguin-Claude Julien in Boston or Alex Lafrenière/Gerard Gallant in NYR as a few that come to mind.  I won't name all the stars Tortorella had issued with, because I got to get back to work soon, but...

 

Usually it is a personality, mentality or perception conflict.  No logic or reasoning, just happens that way.

 

I still think Kuz can be a good trade chip at the TDL, even if it's for a rental, Kuz is basically a free asset.  I'd rather trade him that high-profil prospects or picks.

 

 

[Breadnbutta]

Meh, Kuzys gotta play harder.

 

If you fuck the dog in the real world you get fired, doesn't matter how skilled you are. Laziness is never rewarded at any part of life, especially when your younger.

 

Some people work hard and climb the ladder to get the cushy job. But when your young (2nd year NHLer) you gotta bust your ass, in all walks of life.

 

So no, I have no problem with it.

[Jeremy Hronek]

20 minutes ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

 

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-coffee-the-kuzmenko-story-needs-a-conclusion

 

Good article by Patrick Johnson..........until he mentioned Phil Kessel.

 

Seriously - what's with fans' and media's obsession with this guy?  

 

It's not 2012 anymore.  There's a reason why Kessel barely played in last year's playoffs.  

 

I say this semi seriously and semi jokingly, but we'd be better off coaxing Daniel Sedin out of retirement rather than signing Kessel.  

 

Daniel Sedin is still in elite shape. Phil Kessel on the other hand, has breasts the size of Pamela Anderson.   

Edited January 5 by Jeremy Hronek

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

So a couple of weeks ago Kuzy's agent says everyone is on the same page and there's a plan. 

 

No one has revealed that plan, and we've only had a handful of games since the comment.

 

Maybe someone can elaborate on what they think the "plan" is and how its not working, before we get upset?

 

 

So, I went back to the pre-game video for the Sharks game before Christmas. The game where Kuzmenko was put back in the lineup.

 

Tocchet said that when Kuz was scratched in Dallas, they worked with him on specific things in his game. So it's not a situation where Kuz is sitting on his hands being punished. They're actively working with him.

 

Tocchet specifically mentioned they want him to shoot more and to attack more - attack the play, attack the net, attack the forecheck. If he's the first guy there on the forecheck, to really get in there. 

 

So, that's a specific elaboration on what they're working on with him as part of the plan.

 

The Kuz bit starts at :40 ...

 

 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Tocchet isn't alone, basically every coach in the history of the NHL either has a very low-profile favorite (Megna) or high-profile black sheep (Kuzmenko).  This isn't new or an anomaly, happens often.  I can name Tyler Seguin-Claude Julien in Boston or Alex Lafrenière/Gerard Gallant in NYR as a few that come to mind.  I won't name all the stars Tortorella had issued with, because I got to get back to work soon, but...

 

Usually it is a personality, mentality or perception conflict.  No logic or reasoning, just happens that way.

 

I still think Kuz can be a good trade chip at the TDL, even if it's for a rental, Kuz is basically a free asset.  I'd rather trade him that high-profil prospects or picks.

 

 

And usually, it is the coach that is the problem.  You're trying to claim that Green playing Megna was acceptable?  Tocchet needs to either start acting like a professional or be replaced by someone who is willing to do so.  Sabotaging the team because he doesn't like one of our most talented players shouldn't be tolerated.

[OldFaithfulcap]

3 minutes ago, Breadnbutta said:

Meh, Kuzys gotta play harder.

 

If you fuck the dog in the real world you get fired, doesn't matter how skilled you are. Laziness is never rewarded at any part of life, especially when your younger.

 

Some people work hard and climb the ladder to get the cushy job. But when your young (2nd year NHLer) you gotta bust your ass, in all walks of life.

 

So no, I have no problem with it.

 

First time i wished someone was talking about the DAWG rating

[RupertKBD]

I generally support the coach in these situations and I think Tocchet and his staff have done an excellent job, but that being said, a lot of coaches have their "whipping boys" who it seems can never do enough to satisfy the coach and Kuz is definitely that guy for RT.

 

It's pretty disappointing to see a 39 goal scorer sitting in the pressbox, in favor of 2 AHL call-ups....especially when you can only manage 1 goal against a middle of the pack defense.

 

Think back to this time last year. The Canucks were a struggling club and there were multiple reports of teams being interested in Kuzmenko. His trade value was as high as it would ever be, but the Canucks decided instead to keep him at $5.5 million per....

 

I think Kuzmenko is Tocchet's "blind spot" in an otherwise grand vision. I just hope this gets sorted out before we ruin what should be an integral part of the team.

Edited January 5 by RupertKBD

[Strawbone]

I honestly think this is the root of the problem. Kuzy has never recovered from the perception that he didn't take his summer training seriously enough. Perhaps his fitness still isn't where it needs to be, and that's a legit problem, but nobody has come out directly and said that as far as I know.

 

 

Edited January 5 by Strawbone

[Ballisticsports]

12 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

After every loss. 
 

The hardest thing to get is stars and we have good ones at all the important positions. 
When those stars aren’t the biggest guys you surround them with a lot of big fast guys that can get in on the forecheck, create havoc and get those stars the puck. 
‘This is how JR has always built, it is how PA is building. Tocchet FITS that brand of hockey and the President/GM’s vision of the team. 
Twitchy wasn’t a bad coach , he got a bad team. Tocchet is coming into a team that has played Green’s defensive shell and sucked, has played BB’s free wheeling and sucked. So now they are going with what TB, Colorado and Vegas won with. 

At this level coaching is more about fit than quality, they are all good to great coaches. Look at what Torts did for CBJ and Philly, he fits the underdog. 
‘Team is in progress. Every rumour is we are looking for more size and speed.  

Yes Dr and

We also have 10 of the top 40 +/-  players in the NHL

Our team is playing better than most teams for a change

Scoring more than most teams for a change

Less goals scored against than most teams for a change

On top of the standings for a change

Players relating they are having the most fun in their NHL careers,

So why can't the fans?

Nothing is perfect in life and will have ups and downs, but this is welcome fun to enjoy not to criticize every down 

[Jeremy Hronek]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

So, I went back to the pre-game video for the Sharks game before Christmas. The game where Kuzmenko was put back in the lineup.

 

Tocchet said that when Kuz was scratched in Dallas, they worked with him on specific things in his game. So it's not a situation where Kuz is sitting on his hands being punished. They're actively working with him.

 

Tocchet specifically mentioned they want him to shoot more and to attack more - attack the play, attack the net, attack the forecheck. If he's the first guy there on the forecheck, to really get in there. 

 

So, that's a specific elaboration on what they're working on with him as part of the plan.

 

The Kuz bit starts at :40 ...

 

 

 

I mean, that's all well and good, but the coaches are making it look like Kuzmenko is a 19 year old kid that is just learning the big leagues.  

 

In actuality, the guy scored 39 goals last year and clearly has an elite skill set........that can help this team. You know, with our top line currently struggling with offence.  

 

I mean seriously - if 1994 Pavel Bure was inserted into this line-up, would it make sense to let Pavel "work his magic" so to speak or would it be better if he was forced to play "Tocchy hockey" like a fucking retard?   Elite coaches tailor systems to maximize player strengths.  I like Tocchet but this is one area where I believe he's lacking in.  

Edited January 5 by Jeremy Hronek

[timberz21]

11 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

And usually, it is the coach that is the problem.  You're trying to claim that Green playing Megna was acceptable?  Tocchet needs to either start acting like a professional or be replaced by someone who is willing to do so.  Sabotaging the team because he doesn't like one of our most talented players shouldn't be tolerated.

 

Not saying it's acceptable or not, just pointing out a fact.  Happens both ways.

 

Gest this team Top 5 in the league, that is sabotage?  

Edited January 5 by timberz21

[HKSR]

52 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

last I checked we are tied for first in goals for. Cry me a river. 

And that's the attitude of a team that would never win a cup.  If the team can improve with a player that's already on the roster, then you do it.  I don't have the time right now to check, but I'm quite confident that the team has a better record with Kuz in the lineup than without him.

[Dr. Crossbar]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I mean, that's all well and good, but the coaches are making it look like Kuzmenko is a 19 year old kid that is just learning the big leagues.  

 

In actuality, the guy scored 39 goals last year and clearly has an elite skill set........that can help this team. You know, with our top line currently struggling with offence.  

 

I mean seriously - if 1994 Pavel Bure was inserted into this line-up, would it make sense to let Pavel "work his magic" so to speak or would it be better if he was forced to play "Tocchy hockey" like a fucking retard?   Elite coaches tailor systems to maximize player strengths.  I like Tocchet but this is one area where I believe he's lacking in.  

 

Someone asked the question on specifics of the plan, an elaboration. I provided an answer.

 

Kuzmenko has issues in his game they want to correct. Kuz himself understands and so does his agent. 

 

As for our offense, take a look at the standings. We're third in the league, two points out of first. Kuz has been part of that success.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5 by Dr. Crossbar

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I mean, that's all well and good, but the coaches are making it look like Kuzmenko is a 19 year old kid that is just learning the big leagues.  

 

In actuality, the guy scored 39 goals last year and clearly has an elite skill set........that can help this team. You know, with our top line currently struggling with offence.  

 

I mean seriously - if 1994 Pavel Bure was inserted into this line-up, would it make sense to let Pavel "work his magic" so to speak or would it be better if he was forced to play "Tocchy hockey" like a fucking retard?   Elite coaches tailor systems to maximize player strengths.  I like Tocchet but this is one area where I believe he's lacking in.  

That's just it.  The top 6 is not carrying this team lately.  It's Garland, Joshua, and Blueger.  Do we really want to just bumble along and expect those 3 to carry the offence?

[PhillipBlunt]

Now Friedman is entering the discussion. 

 

Canucks’ Coach at Breaking Point with Kuzmenko Amid Trade Talk (msn.com)

 

Breaking point? Really Elliotte? 

[BC_Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I mean, that's all well and good, but the coaches are making it look like Kuzmenko is a 19 year old kid that is just learning the big leagues.  

 

In actuality, the guy scored 39 goals last year and clearly has an elite skill set........that can help this team. You know, with our top line currently struggling with offence.  

 

I mean seriously - if 1994 Pavel Bure was inserted into this line-up, would it make sense to let Pavel "work his magic" so to speak or would it be better if he was forced to play "Tocchy hockey" like a fucking retard?   Elite coaches tailor systems to maximize player strengths.  I like Tocchet but this is one area where I believe he's lacking in.  

And I think that this meshed well with the players/talent we have. With the exception of Hughes, none of our players are elite level talent; they are guys that need to work their ass off, and their top game is the 200' variety. Miller exemplifies this to a tee; top end talent when he is engaged in a 200' foot game...ditto Petterson. We don't have McDavid, Mckinnon, Crosby level talent.

 

As such, Tocchet is the perfect coach for 99% of the players, but terrible for the 1% which happens to be Kuzmenko.

[iinatcc]

Considering how most of the roster has adjusted to Tocchet's message just fine, I don't think Tocchet is doing anything wrong in how he is treating Kuzmenko. 

 

I forgot who said it (it was somewhere in Sportsnet 650) but Kuzmenko has never played winning hockey in the NHL. Last season most players were probably playing for individual stats which Kuzmenko excelled in but, now with Tocchet in charge, Kuzmenko just hasn't adjusted to playing the type of hockey that wins games. 

 

 

[BC_Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Someone asked the question on specifics of the plan, an elaboration. I provided an answer.

 

Kuzmenko has issues in his game they want to correct. Kuz himself understands and so does his agent. 

 

As for our offense, take a look at the standings. We're third in the league, two points out of first. Kuz has been part of that success.

 

 

 

 

And that is great, but we lost by 1 goal last night where the top 6 looked lost with Lafferty; offense died on his stick. Last night, Kuzmenko could of been the difference.

[HKSR]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Tocchet specifically mentioned they want him to shoot more and to attack more - attack the play, attack the net, attack the forecheck. If he's the first guy there on the forecheck, to really get in there. 

Problem I have with this is I can guarantee you 100% that he won't be shooting more, attacking the play more, attacking the net more, or attacking the forecheck more from a press box.  I certainly can promise you he won't be the first guy on the forecheck while wearing his suit in a press box.  

 

Thr best place for him to figure out what's expected of him is on the ice, and in a game.  Period.