Jeremy Hronek Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Just now, PhillipBlunt said: Now Friedman is entering the discussion. Canucks’ Coach at Breaking Point with Kuzmenko Amid Trade Talk (msn.com) Breaking point? Really Elliotte? Friedman always acts like a 14 year old Californian blonde girl whenever there is a hint of adversity surrounding the Canucks. He feigns objectivity but the guy is a Maple Leaf ball-licker through and through. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, BC_Hawk said: And that is great, but we lost by 1 goal last night where the top 6 looked lost with Lafferty; offense died on his stick. Last night, Kuzmenko could of been the difference. St. Louis played a good game. It was hockey. We're third in the league, two points out of first. Kuz has been a part of that success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Heard on D&D, they brought up Jordan Greenway as a possible target at the TDL. Dhali saying he Canucks need to get bigger and Greenway seems to be a player they're interested in. Apparently lots of teams inquiring about Kuzmenko, maybe BUF is one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said: As such, Tocchet is the perfect coach for 99% of the players, but terrible for the 1% which happens to be Kuzmenko. In that case, I agree with the premise of Patrick Johnson's article (ignoring his retarded take on Phil Kessel obviously). We need to move Kuzmenko before this shit becomes a distraction. Right now, this whole issue has been swept under a rug since we've had a great season so far. But now? We've got a tough 7 game road trip and we've already started 0-1 (and didn't particularly look good.....especially our top line). If this road trip goes awry and we see more Kuzmenko benchings, this issue could snowball. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Problem I have with this is I can guarantee you 100% that he won't be shooting more, attacking the play more, attacking the net more, or attacking the forecheck more from a press box. I certainly can promise you he won't be the first guy on the forecheck while wearing his suit in a press box. Thr best place for him to figure out what's expected of him is on the ice, and in a game. Period. They're working with him. Kuz understands, so does his agent. We're third in the league. Two points out of first. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: They're working with him. Kuz understands, so does his agent. We're third in the league. Two points out of first. Period. Kuzmenko is a proven goal scorer. The Canucks top line with Pettersson is struggling to score (which was not the case at the start of the season when Kuz was there). There are always ways to improve one's team. Period. Edited January 5 by Jeremy Hronek 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: And that's the attitude of a team that would never win a cup. If the team can improve with a player that's already on the roster, then you do it. I don't have the time right now to check, but I'm quite confident that the team has a better record with Kuz in the lineup than without him. OMG lol. What do you want? Kuzz Pete Mik whos digging pucks? Kuzzi has 3 hits on the entire year someone has to get the puck. He has a team high 24.7% o zone starts and a team low 5% d zone starts. Can't coddle him any more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 :::::1996 Alex Mogilny signs with the current Canucks::::: Rick Tocchet: Hey Alex - we need you to play a hard-nosed north-south game. None of this fancy "mumbo jumbo stick handling crap." If you're not getting in on the forecheck and blowing other men into the boards, then you're gonna have a date with Adam Foote in the press box." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFaithfulcap Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 minutes ago, Nucker67 said: Heard on D&D, they brought up Jordan Greenway as a possible target at the TDL. Dhali saying he Canucks need to get bigger and Greenway seems to be a player they're interested in. Apparently lots of teams inquiring about Kuzmenko, maybe BUF is one of them. Greenway? He's no better than our current bottom six. Peterka has speed but he's not a tocchet type. You could see this start a year ago. Alvin needs to either force tocchet to play kuz up top or trade him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Kuzmenko is a proven goal scorer. The Canucks top line with Pettersson is struggling to score (which was not the case at the start of the season when Kuz was there). There are always ways to improve one's team. Period. Agreed. The argument based on success the team has had is irrelevant; we should aim to continually improve versus ignore issues. WE are not asking for the caoches to totally change what they are doing; just use an asset (cap space) or move on to improve the team. Look at the Oilers; all is well in Oiler land again...but the defense and goaltending issues are still there and WILL come back to bite them if not dealt with. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Kuzmenko is a proven goal scorer. The Canucks top line with Pettersson is struggling to score (which was not the case at the start of the season when Kuz was there). There are always ways to improve one's team. Period. Of course there's always ways to improve. That applies to Kuzmenko and exactly why they're working with him to improve his game and the team's game. He needs to prove he can play the right way and within team system. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Of course there's always ways to improve. That applies to Kuzmenko and exactly why they're working with him to improve his game and the team's game. He needs to prove he can play the right way and within team system. Period. He has proven he can't be a 200' player; they have tried for almost a year to do that. That is not who he is. You can work on someone's game and try to improve (all great steps), but continuing to sideline a pure goal scorer and not utilize 5.5m on a cap strapped team is not the solution. The canucks are currently lucky that the 3rd line is playing lights out, otherwise the struggle to score goals from the Top6 would be costing the team points right now. We need to get the top 2 lines going again, and sidelining Kuz and his 5.5m in cap is not the answer Period. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Of course there's always ways to improve. That applies to Kuzmenko and exactly why they're working with him to improve his game and the team's game. He needs to prove he can play the right way and within team system. Period. I know what you mean, but don't you think it's.....limiting? Self-sabotaging? Again, I use the 1994 Pavel Bure and 1996 Alex Mogilny examples. If one of those guys were available and signed with the Canucks, would it make sense for the coaching staff to cater to their strengths, or would it make more sense to pigeon hole them into a rigid system that may or may not suit their style? Going into big picture mode, our overly rigid system might deter certain types of UFA's wanting to sign here if they feel that their style of play won't mesh well. "Heeeeeey! William Nylander wants to play in Vancouver! Nope. He can take a walk. He ain't willing to "go the dirty areas" and "blow other men into the boards after getting in on the forecheck. Pass!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, Jeremy Hronek said: I know what you mean, but don't you think it's.....limiting? Self-sabotaging? Again, I use the 1994 Pavel Bure and 1996 Alex Mogilny examples. If one of those guys were available and signed with the Canucks, would it make sense for the coaching staff to cater to their strengths, or would it make more sense to pigeon hole them into a rigid system that may or may not suit their style? Going into big picture mode, our overly rigid system might deter certain types of UFA's wanting to sign here if they feel that their style of play won't mesh well. "Heeeeeey! William Nylander wants to play in Vancouver! Nope. He can take a walk. He ain't willing to "go the dirty areas" and "blow other men into the boards after getting in on the forecheck. Pass!" I agree with your point, but Free agency/trades is a different beast; you can acquire the players that have the talent and fit your mold. Kuzmenko is here now and capable of putting pucks in the net on the top line. Use him OR use the cap space to acquire someone that can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, BC_Hawk said: He has proven he can't be a 200' player; they have tried for almost a year to do that. That is not who he is. You can work on someone's game and try to improve (all great steps), but continuing to sideline a pure goal scorer and not utilize 5.5m on a cap strapped team is not the solution. The canucks are currently lucky that the 3rd line is playing lights out, otherwise the struggle to score goals from the Top6 would be costing the team points right now. We need to get the top 2 lines going again, and sidelining Kuz and his 5.5m in cap is not the answer Period. The simple fact of the matter, whether you or I like it or not, is that management, Tocchet, his staff, the organization to the farm, are united in playing a certain game, specific systems and structure that the team needs to play within. No one guy is going to exist outside of that. We all knew last year when Tocchet arrived that guys were either buying in or would be gone. Of course Kuz is a goal scorer, they know that, but he has issues with the system. That's why they're investing in him. And this is all about playing the right way. Period. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said: The simple fact of the matter, whether you or I like it or not, is that management, Tocchet, his staff, the organization to the farm, are united in playing a certain game, specific systems and structure that the team needs to play within. No one guy is going to exist outside of that. We all knew last year when Tocchet arrived that guys were either buying in or would be gone. Of course Kuz is a goal scorer, they know that, but he has issues with the system. That's why they're investing in him. And this is all about playing the right way. Period. I'm not disagreeing, but trade him then. He is occupying 5.5m on a cap strapped team that is lacking talent in Top6. Period. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: I know what you mean, but don't you think it's.....limiting? Self-sabotaging? Again, I use the 1994 Pavel Bure and 1996 Alex Mogilny examples. If one of those guys were available and signed with the Canucks, would it make sense for the coaching staff to cater to their strengths, or would it make more sense to pigeon hole them into a rigid system that may or may not suit their style? Going into big picture mode, our overly rigid system might deter certain types of UFA's wanting to sign here if they feel that their style of play won't mesh well. "Heeeeeey! William Nylander wants to play in Vancouver! Nope. He can take a walk. He ain't willing to "go the dirty areas" and "blow other men into the boards after getting in on the forecheck. Pass!" Well, I'm looking at it from a different angle. Tocchet was hired to implement structure and systems, accountability, culture, and the entire organization from top to bottom to Abby is all united in playing this way and developing guys in this system. So Kuz has issues in his game playing within this. So they're not going to say he's exempt. Nor should he be. The thing is ... Both Bure and Mogilny had other dimensions to their game that Kuz doesn't have. And they certainly weren't liabilities. I think the Bure and Mogilny analogy goes the other way in that they played in a heavier, aggressive era, which is the type of dimensions were trying to add to Kuz's game. He could learn a thing or two from both Bure and Mogilny. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 10 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said: I'm not disagreeing, but trade him then. He is occupying 5.5m on a cap strapped team that is lacking talent in Top6. Period. Well let's see how this plays out. He'll be traded if he doesn't get with the program or improve. But we don't lack talent. We need to add more. That's how we build a winner. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Well let's see how this plays out. He'll be traded if he doesn't get with the program or improve. But we don't lack talent. We need to add more. That's how we build a winner. Period. Basically two in the same; requiring the addition of versus lacking is the same. Regardless, Kuzmenko possesses top line talent; the team's overall talent (ability to win games and score goals) is better with him in the lineup. IF he is not the right fit to the team, he should be moved out versus sitting in the pressbox ASAP. His value and cap space can be used to acquire a player that will fit the mold. To be fair, PA is probably already working on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, BC_Hawk said: Basically two in the same; requiring the addition of versus lacking is the same. Regardless, Kuzmenko possesses top line talent; the team's overall talent (ability to win games and score goals) is better with him in the lineup. IF he is not the right fit to the team, he should be moved out versus sitting in the pressbox ASAP. His value and cap space can be used to acquire a player that will fit the mold. To be fair, PA is probably already working on this. We look at things differently. So be it. They want him to play a certain way, the entire team not just him, he has issues in that regard, so they're actively working with him to correct it. Excellent! I'm completely fine with that and believe it's in the team's best interest. Especially when guys are all in it together to play the right way. The team is being supportive. That means something in the locker room when guys struggle. But more to what you are saying ... PA and management are smart, they know the bigger picture and what needs to happen, they're not oblivious. I'm sure they are working on both Plan A and Plan B. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolexSub Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Hope Tock's give Kuz more playing time and patience to get him back to scoring like he did last year. It's really just putting back the confidence he needs but it's tough when you try to score and you are held back in playing a different style of game he is custom to. And agree he has to improve to be a strong 2 way player. But he needs more game time to make those adjustments. Playing 1 or 2 games and getting benched again and again won't help his cause. Imagine if we have Kuz scoring in addition to what we have now...that would put us in winning more games!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Despite Kuzmenko's mediocre play to begin the season (which if we're being honest, wasn't really *that* bad), Pettersson had 20 points in the first 10 games. Is it coincidence that Petey's game started to drop ever since Tocchet started treating Kuzmenko like Lonny Bohonos? 4 hours ago, Nucker67 said: I think some people here are a lot more upset than Kuzmenko. He's just happy to be in the NHL, Millstein says they have a plan, his agent isn't even concerned. But sure, let's start a Tocchet witch hunt if that makes you feel better. Keep in mind, without Tocchet, this team would be bottom feeders again. Imo- the team's turn around has more to do with Demko getting in his groove- and DeSmith being an excellent back up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said: I'm not disagreeing, but trade him then. He is occupying 5.5m on a cap strapped team that is lacking talent in Top6. Period. maybe they like him enough to give him some tuff love and hope he figures out playing the way they want…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 it's not starting to get upsetting, it's starting to upset you. please speak for yourself going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Hammertime said: OMG lol. What do you want? Kuzz Pete Mik whos digging pucks? Kuzzi has 3 hits on the entire year someone has to get the puck. He has a team high 24.7% o zone starts and a team low 5% d zone starts. Can't coddle him any more than that. I want our team to dress the best roster possible. Not having 3rd or 4th line players taking spots of a 39 goal top 6 winger. I don't care how many hits Kuzmenko has. I care about how many goals he helps to generate. You know... the scoreboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.