Rick Tocchet's treatment of Kuzmenko is starting to get upsetting

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[RupertKBD]

52 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

I know if I was the GM for a different NHL team, I'd be calling PA constantly with lowball offers....

 

Guys who can score 40 goals in today's NHL don't become available for cheap very often.

Edited January 6 by RupertKBD

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I know if I was the GM for a different NHL team, I'd be calling PA constantly with lowball offers....

 

Guys who can score 40 goals in today's NHL don't become available for cheap very often.

 

maybe its for the best, for all concerned? 

 

we got him for free so its not like there's an asset to recover. 

Edited January 6 by Bob Long

[Captkirk888]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Thanks. I read the quote but that’s it.

i didn’t watch because it’s all pure speculation at this point.

when or if he is traded, obviously we will hear about it. That is the only reliable source.

[Captkirk888]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

maybe its for the best, for all concerned? 

 

we got him for free so its not like there's an asset to recover. 

I don’t agree with that way of thinking. If you were personally gifted something of value that you decided to sell, why would you not try to get the most value?

[Sativika]

I guess I don't have to remind y'all that we won the Kuzmenko sweepstakes when all the hoopla surrounding him was going on a couple of years ago. There were alotta' other teams vying for his services. And much to the chagrin of those teams that lost out. We got him! Pretty much from the get go he was everything as advertised. He impressed enough that JR/PA signed him the following year to a big raise.

 

Here's an old Dobber article of his journey to the NHL;

 

https://dobberhockey.com/2022/07/09/the-journey-projecting-andrei-kuzmenko/

 

Here's a couple of positive quotes from that article;

 

- "Besides being able to post points, Kuzmenko's skill set is desirable in a variety of ways. His elusive skating makes him a threat in all facets of the offensive game. He can blow by opponents on the rush or kill them in the cycle with his ability to maneuver in tight spaces under pressure."

 

- "Mixing in his skating with his top-end hockey sense and puck skills, he becomes a potentially very dangerous winger for the Canucks. He can make plays at rapid speeds, which the new Canucks regime will love more than anything."

 

And one big negative one;

 

- "Kuzmenko's defensive game has a lot of question marks which transforms this entire signing into a boom-or-bust. Can he play anywhere in your top nine? No doubt. Can he be placed in a checking-type role? That becomes harder to answer. He will compliment any centermen you put him with, but if Kuzmenko gets stapled to a third line which is used as a shutdown option, I think his potential drastically decreases."

 

 

I realize that most of his success was with "Bruce, there it is" at the helm; with RT the last half of that season;  seemingly allowed to freewheel, if you will, and play to his strengths. So, the season wraps with the new coach at hand having a successful and somewhat controversial debut. RT sternly suggests that for continued success, an off season of keeping ones self in top physical fitness is paramount; to be at the ready and in game shape come RT's first training camp with the team. Certainly not an unrealistic request.

 

Many took it to heart; Kuzy included. And as we've seen since day one this first full season with RT? Need I say more? We rocked. We were tops in the NHL at Xmas break. BUT........................Our Russian free agent star has dimmed. Why? Why oh why? Sadly, I haven't the answers. Perhaps sophomore slumps are a real phenomena and Kuzy has to slog his way through it. Sh*tty that he is slogging with healthy scratches, media attention, trade speculation, questionable defensive criticism, and on and on. Sucks for him. 

 

I sure hope he keeps his chin up and stays positive through all this crap. It's gotta be tough. Dude should be playing. To me, that's all there's to it.  Let him play!

 

 

[RupertKBD]

19 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

maybe its for the best, for all concerned? 

 

we got him for free so its not like there's an asset to recover. 

 Could have had a nice haul for him last year, before he was resigned...

 

Either way you look at it, it's a waste.

[Gurn]

35 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

maybe its for the best, for all concerned? 

 

we got him for free so its not like there's an asset to recover. 

imo, there is no such thing as 'playing with house money'.

If the chips are in front of you-they are yours.

Losing Kuze, for reduced value, is still a loss.

 

 

[Breadnbutta]

32 minutes ago, Captkirk888 said:

I don’t agree with that way of thinking. If you were personally gifted something of value that you decided to sell, why would you not try to get the most value?

Cap space is value, creating chemistry with a good forechecking forward who can compliment Pettersson is value.

 

I trust this management and coaching staff they haven't made many mistakes. And the ones they have made have been minor and were quickly shipped out. (Riley Stillman/Jason Dickinson)

 

Let PA Cook!

[Tusk]

1 minute ago, Breadnbutta said:

Cap space is value, creating chemistry with a good forechecking forward who can compliment Pettersson is value.

 

I trust this management and coaching staff they haven't made many mistakes. And the ones they have made have been minor and were quickly shipped out. (Riley Stillman/Jason Dickinson)

 

Let PA Cook!

I hope he can cook something up with Flames. If they want out of the Hugberdough contract, that is one guy that could play with Petey. If they retained %50 that is a long term contract that would get us past the OEL buyouts.

[Tusk]

36 minutes ago, Sativika said:

I guess I don't have to remind y'all that we won the Kuzmenko sweepstakes when all the hoopla surrounding him was going on a couple of years ago. There were alotta' other teams vying for his services. And much to the chagrin of those teams that lost out. We got him! Pretty much from the get go he was everything as advertised. He impressed enough that JR/PA signed him the following year to a big raise.

 

Here's an old Dobber article of his journey to the NHL;

 

https://dobberhockey.com/2022/07/09/the-journey-projecting-andrei-kuzmenko/

 

Here's a couple of positive quotes from that article;

 

- "Besides being able to post points, Kuzmenko's skill set is desirable in a variety of ways. His elusive skating makes him a threat in all facets of the offensive game. He can blow by opponents on the rush or kill them in the cycle with his ability to maneuver in tight spaces under pressure."

 

- "Mixing in his skating with his top-end hockey sense and puck skills, he becomes a potentially very dangerous winger for the Canucks. He can make plays at rapid speeds, which the new Canucks regime will love more than anything."

 

And one big negative one;

 

- "Kuzmenko's defensive game has a lot of question marks which transforms this entire signing into a boom-or-bust. Can he play anywhere in your top nine? No doubt. Can he be placed in a checking-type role? That becomes harder to answer. He will compliment any centermen you put him with, but if Kuzmenko gets stapled to a third line which is used as a shutdown option, I think his potential drastically decreases."

 

 

I realize that most of his success was with "Bruce, there it is" at the helm; with RT the last half of that season;  seemingly allowed to freewheel, if you will, and play to his strengths. So, the season wraps with the new coach at hand having a successful and somewhat controversial debut. RT sternly suggests that for continued success, an off season of keeping ones self in top physical fitness is paramount; to be at the ready and in game shape come RT's first training camp with the team. Certainly not an unrealistic request.

 

Many took it to heart; Kuzy included. And as we've seen since day one this first full season with RT? Need I say more? We rocked. We were tops in the NHL at Xmas break. BUT........................Our Russian free agent star has dimmed. Why? Why oh why? Sadly, I haven't the answers. Perhaps sophomore slumps are a real phenomena and Kuzy has to slog his way through it. Sh*tty that he is slogging with healthy scratches, media attention, trade speculation, questionable defensive criticism, and on and on. Sucks for him. 

 

I sure hope he keeps his chin up and stays positive through all this crap. It's gotta be tough. Dude should be playing. To me, that's all there's to it.  Let him play!

 

 

I think in the spring I was wanting "momma let him play" for a goal song.

[Moeknows]

3 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

My rep to post ratio is better than yours.

 

So zip it back up and put the mouse back in the house. 

Ignore him like HKSR suggested.. I did. Feels good

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, Breadnbutta said:

Cap space is value, creating chemistry with a good forechecking forward who can compliment Pettersson is value.

 

I trust this management and coaching staff they haven't made many mistakes. And the ones they have made have been minor and were quickly shipped out. (Riley Stillman/Jason Dickinson)

 

Let PA Cook!

Allvin isn’t the one who is causing the problem. It’s Tocchet. Allvin is the guy who went out and got Kuzmenko for free. Now because of Tocchet he has to trade his 39 goal scorer for below market value because of the current situation. This puts Allvin in a very bad situation. Plus on top of that Allvin is currently trying to negotiate with Kuzmenko’s agent on an extension for Zadorov. 
 

So PA is probably not a very happy guy right now. What happens to Allvin’s reputation if he trades Kuzmenko for a 3rd or 4th line plug that Tocchet wants, and then Kuzmenko’s goes out and scores 50 goals for another team?  
 

You think Allvin is going to be happy about that?  Allvin and Tocchet are not joined at the hip. Usually a GM will have a longer tenure at the club than a coach. Allvin certainly does not want to tarnish his reputation around the league because his coach doesn’t like one of his players and is forced to trade him for pennies on the dollar. 

[Tusk]

4 minutes ago, Moeknows said:

Ignore him like HKSR suggested.. I did. Feels good

One of the best things about posting here is having others dis-agree or point out your flaws. The best discussions happen when there are opposite views on things. How can anyone actually be offended? 

I guess it happens

I have been banned a few times for speaking my truth

[Elias Pettersson]

53 minutes ago, Captkirk888 said:

Thanks. I read the quote but that’s it.

i didn’t watch because it’s all pure speculation at this point.

when or if he is traded, obviously we will hear about it. That is the only reliable source.

According to Rick Dhaliwal, Dan Milstein turned off his phone last night and didn’t return Dhaliwal’s text messages. So the situation is quite serious and more so than is being let on in the media. 

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Allvin isn’t the one who is causing the problem. It’s Tocchet. Allvin is the guy who went out and got Kuzmenko for free. Now because of Tocchet he has to trade his 39 goal scorer for below market value because of the current situation. This puts Allvin in a very bad situation. Plus on top of that Allvin is currently trying to negotiate with Kuzmenko’s agent on an extension for Zadorov. 
 

So PA is probably not a very happy guy right now. What happens to Allvin’s reputation if he trades Kuzmenko for a 3rd or 4th line plug that Tocchet wants, and then Kuzmenko’s goes out and scores 50 goals for another team?  
 

You think Allvin is going to be happy about that?  Allvin and Tocchet are not joined at the hip. Usually a GM will have a longer tenure at the club than a coach. Allvin certainly does not want to tarnish his reputation around the league because his coach doesn’t like one of his players and is forced to trade him for pennies on the dollar. 

If something happens, it wont be "pennies on the dollar" ha ha. If they did a deal for Huberdeau it would be like 2 for 1 and calgary would likely owe us future considerations. Kuzy would fly all over the ice in calgary but no worries, Demko is always watching.

[Tusk]

29 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

According to Rick Dhaliwal, Dan Milstein turned off his phone last night and didn’t return Dhaliwal’s text messages. So the situation is quite serious and more so than is being let on in the media. 

I would totally mute Dhaliwal.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Captkirk888 said:

I don’t agree with that way of thinking. If you were personally gifted something of value that you decided to sell, why would you not try to get the most value?

 

Sometimes the best thing is to move on.

[Elias Pettersson]

Good luck winning a round in the playoffs with Lafferty and Höglander in your top 6…

 

 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

imo, there is no such thing as 'playing with house money'.

If the chips are in front of you-they are yours.

Losing Kuze, for reduced value, is still a loss.

 

 

 

Sure there is. Kuzy is a found wallet as Burke used to say. We didn't burn a pick or a player for him and it was a bet all GM's would have made.

 

If he's turned into something more productive then what's the problem?

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Good luck winning a round in the playoffs with Lafferty and Höglander in your top 6…

 

 

So... Aman it is!

[Hammertime]

7 hours ago, HKSR said:

Can you imagine benching this guy cuz his defensive ability sucks?  Stupid thought right?  Maybe Tocchet can learn a thing from Tampa's coach about extracting the most out of a players strength rather than neutering a player's best asset.

 

You're comparing him to Kuch. He isn't Kuch. And we'd like him to be better at EVD than Kuch. I tell my kid all the time you always start out being terrible at everything, because I'm a mean awful dad. no one who was ever any good at anything didn't start out sucking at it. Kuzz has oodles of potential. His commitment will be the difference between him being a KHL star or a NHL star. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

You're comparing him to Kuch. He isn't Kuch. And we'd like him to be better at EVD than Kuch. I tell my kid all the time you always start out being terrible at everything, because I'm a mean awful dad. no one who was ever any good at anything didn't start out sucking at it. Kuzz has oodles of potential. His commitment will be the difference between him being a KHL star or a NHL star. 

Kuzmenko is better at EVD than Kucherov. Much better. He was at 71% last year and this year his WAR card shows him at 53%. 
 

Also, do you really think that a Russian player who can score 39 goals in the NHL will need to go back to the KHL?  Do you know how many teams are chasing Kuzmenko right now?  
 

There are lots of NHL coaches who would love to have Kuzmenko on their team. Tocchet isn’t Scotty Bowman. He’s not the end all and the preacher of every coach in the NHL. 

[Captkirk888]

3 hours ago, Breadnbutta said:

Cap space is value, creating chemistry with a good forechecking forward who can compliment Pettersson is value.

 

I trust this management and coaching staff they haven't made many mistakes. And the ones they have made have been minor and were quickly shipped out. (Riley Stillman/Jason Dickinson)

 

Let PA Cook!

I trust this management team as well. I just dont want to give Kuz away fir nothing. I like him and i think given time he can still fit this team and Tocs system. Cheers.

[Captkirk888]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Sometimes the best thing is to move on.

Maybe, but i think there is still hope for a kuzy fit