tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, HKSR said: So are many other high end offensive talents around the league. You coach to their strengths. Imagine forcing guys like Panarin or Kaprizov to play hard nosed 200ft games... it's totally removing their strongest asset from the lineup. the strength of the wolf is in the pack. have you already forgotten what happens when this team plays like individuals instead of like a cohesive unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, HKSR said: 14 points in the first 16 games of the season. how many did the rest of the guys in the top 6, and quinn, have in that span? kuzmenko has been a passenger all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: the strength of the wolf is in the pack. have you already forgotten what happens when this team plays like individuals instead of like a cohesive unit? He is being singled out. He has NOT been as terrible as he's being made out to be. Certainly not bad enough to be kept out of the lineup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said: Then maybe play Kuz with Miller and Hogs then? Oh wait, Boeser plays the same game most nights now, but no one says anything because he was getting goals. Exactly. It was the reverse last year. They can't both swim around in open ice waiting for the puck to arrive on their sticks. If nobody is getting the puck then those goals don't happen. It is a team sport. Tocchet isn't miss using Kuzz. He just gave his cookie to Brock. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: how many did the rest of the guys in the top 6, and quinn, have in that span? kuzmenko has been a passenger all year. Not saying it's the case, but shortly after that 16th game he was getting benched and demoted. Coincidentally the teams offence in general started to sputter... mid Nov. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Can you imagine benching this guy cuz his defensive ability sucks? Stupid thought right? Maybe Tocchet can learn a thing from Tampa's coach about extracting the most out of a players strength rather than neutering a player's best asset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: He is being singled out. He has NOT been as terrible as he's being made out to be. Certainly not bad enough to be kept out of the lineup. it's not about being terrible. it's about certain non-negotiables that he hasn't been able to navigate. there's leeway for lots of things but not that. if he had 0 pts this year but was consistently upholding toc's staples and not hurting the team and hindering their ability to play their system, he'd be in the lineup every night. again, it's not that's he's been terrible. it's not that anybody is upset with him. nobody is down on kuz. everybody wants him to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: So, I went back to the pre-game video for the Sharks game before Christmas. The game where Kuzmenko was put back in the lineup. Tocchet said that when Kuz was scratched in Dallas, they worked with him on specific things in his game. So it's not a situation where Kuz is sitting on his hands being punished. They're actively working with him. Tocchet specifically mentioned they want him to shoot more and to attack more - attack the play, attack the net, attack the forecheck. If he's the first guy there on the forecheck, to really get in there. So, that's a specific elaboration on what they're working on with him as part of the plan. The Kuz bit starts at :40 ... So maybe Kuzy is missing the first strong stride needed to play that way. His dismal NHL EDGE skating stats would back that up. I think we're just looking at a blown offseason training program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Can you imagine benching this guy cuz his defensive ability sucks? Stupid thought right? Maybe Tocchet can learn a thing from Tampa's coach about extracting the most out of a players strength rather than neutering a player's best asset. what a dumb comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Can you imagine benching this guy cuz his defensive ability sucks? Stupid thought right? Maybe Tocchet can learn a thing from Tampa's coach about extracting the most out of a players strength rather than neutering a player's best asset. Holy crap! He has gotten even worse as time has gone on! Scratch him for an AHL player until he learns how to play defence! STUPID. There is no other word to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, tas said: it's not about being terrible. it's about certain non-negotiables that he hasn't been able to navigate. there's leeway for lots of things but not that. if he had 0 pts this year but was consistently upholding toc's staples and not hurting the team and hindering their ability to play their system, he'd be in the lineup every night. again, it's not that's he's been terrible. it's not that anybody is upset with him. nobody is down on kuz. everybody wants him to succeed. I agree, but if he's capable of being a 30 to 40 goal man, we have to consider giving him a longer leash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, Bob Long said: So maybe Kuzy is missing the first strong stride needed to play that way. His dismal NHL EDGE skating stats would back that up. I think we're just looking at a blown offseason training program. rutherford said it plain as day. kuz worked his bag off all summer and is in terrific shape, but not hockey shape. did the wrong exercise because he didn't listen to what the org wanted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, tas said: what a dumb comparison. Why? Kucherov is given the reigns to play offence. That's what he's there to do. Not play a 200ft 2 way game. Potting nearly 40 goals in a season is no fluke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: rutherford said it plain as day. kuz worked his bag off all summer and is in terrific shape, but not hockey shape. did the wrong exercise because he didn't listen to what the org wanted. Ok if Kuz is out of shape (a la Virtanen), I'm fully on board with Tocchet's decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, HKSR said: I agree, but if he's capable of being a 30 to 40 goal man, we have to consider giving him a longer leash. not when the things he does make it so his line simply cannot play the team's system. long leash if the offense dries up, not if he's playing like a junior player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, HKSR said: Ok if Kuz is out of shape (a la Virtanen), I'm fully on board with Tocchet's decision. he's not out of shape, he's in the wrong shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: not when the things he does make it so his line simply cannot play the team's system. long leash if the offense dries up, not if he's playing like a junior player. Tell that to multi Stanley Cup winning Tampa Bay and their defensive liability Nikita Kucherov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Why? Kucherov is given the reigns to play offence. That's what he's there to do. Not play a 200ft 2 way game. Potting nearly 40 goals in a season is no fluke. do I really need to answer this question? really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: do I really need to answer this question? really? You probably should. I don't see the difference. You can't even say that TBay has not been a successful team because of Kucherov's poor defensive metrics either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Tell that to multi Stanley Cup winning Tampa Bay and their defensive liability Nikita Kucherov. sure, and if kuzmenko starts putting up 130 point seasons and winning cups, toc might look past a couple things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, HKSR said: You probably should. I don't see the difference. You can't even say that TBay has not been a successful team because of Kucherov's poor defensive metrics either. because kucherov is a top 3 offensive player in the world with 2 cups and who has proven himself under the best coach in hockey for a decade or whatever. you have to earn the right to have the slack he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, tas said: sure, and if kuzmenko starts putting up 130 point seasons and winning cups, toc might look past a couple things. If Kuz puts up nearly 40 goals, I'm fine with it. Clearly Tampa can win cups with a defensive liability like Kucherov, but somehow it's Kuzmenko that would be the problem if the Canucks don't win a cup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: So maybe Kuzy is missing the first strong stride needed to play that way. His dismal NHL EDGE skating stats would back that up. I think we're just looking at a blown offseason training program. Could very well be that. I think it's a number of things in order to play that way. He's not used to battling in that way, so speed, quickness, and fitness go hand in hand. It's interesting ... In one if the other Kuzmenko threads in the main forum, someone posted a video of all Kuz's 39 goals from last year ... many in front of the net, doorstep, and tip ins ... so no wonder Kuz is struggling with attacking the play, the net, and forecheck. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, tas said: he's not out of shape, he's in the wrong shape. since this seemed to confuse a certain member, what would happen if you trained for 6 months for a heavyweight MMA fight and then found out that whoops, you forgot that you were actually doing a triathlon instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, tas said: because kucherov is a top 3 offensive player in the world with 2 cups and who has proven himself under the best coach in hockey for a decade or whatever. you have to earn the right to have the slack he has. How would he have proven that if he got demoted and benched after potting 29 goals and 65 points in his 2nd season in the NHL? Curious your thoughts on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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