[Re-signing] TOR extends William Nylander 8 years, $11.5M AAV (full NMC)

[Miss Korea]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Gotta think the Leafs may move on from Tavares when his deal is up if he can't be brought back at a much smaller cap hit

 

Nylander, Matthews, and Marner will likely cannibalize Tavares's cap

 

One more season left on his deal, he'll be 34 in September and 35 before the first season of any new deal

 

He's going to continue regressing, but should be good enough to support the second line.  Maybe a 3 x $4M?

[HKSR]

39 minutes ago, Tusk said:

Oct. 9, 2023

 

 Matt Murray's hip injury status has been updated. The expected duration is 6 months.

 

Dec. 6, 2023

 

 John Klingberg's hip injury status has been updated. The expected duration is 6 months.

 

 

 

I could see Murray back for the playoffs.  

[Kragar]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

People forget, players have an obligation to their union and to other players to maximize their earnings so that other players can maximize theirs.  

But doesn't making things top-heavy hurt more players than it helps?  It's good for the top players, sure, but aren't mid-level players being punished as they get priced out of what they deserve as teams get more top heavy?

 

https://theathletic.com/4967136/2023/10/17/nhl-salary-cap-roster-cuts/

 

I wish I could find something not behind a paywall. IIRC, there was discussion about this on CDC last year or early this year.

 

If the high-paid players drive revenue enough to jack up the salary cap enough, you're position is more valid. But if it's just top players taking all the money, and not producing (either on the ice or in the league coffers), then their union brothers don't make out as well.

 

It's also feasible that if top players took less, allowing for stronger overall lineups, playoff success could lead to better raises for the whole team when their contracts are up.

[Kragar]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I could see Murray back for the playoffs.  

Wouldn't that be lucky

 

[stawns]

Just now, Kragar said:

But doesn't making things top-heavy hurt more players than it helps?  It's good for the top players, sure, but aren't mid-level players being punished as they get priced out of what they deserve as teams get more top heavy?

 

https://theathletic.com/4967136/2023/10/17/nhl-salary-cap-roster-cuts/

 

I wish I could find something not behind a paywall. IIRC, there was discussion about this on CDC last year or early this year.

 

If the high-paid players drive revenue enough to jack up the salary cap enough, you're position is more valid. But if it's just top players taking all the money, and not producing (either on the ice or in the league coffers), then their union brothers don't make out as well.

 

It's also feasible that if top players took less, allowing for stronger overall lineups, playoff success could lead to better raises for the whole team when their contracts are up.

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, but they have a strong union and that is predicated on an understanding that players maximize their value at contract time.  Obviously there are outliers, but it does hold true for the most part.

[Plaguez]

4 hours ago, 27 Percent said:

I don't understand why we have to even match this for Petey. Nylander usually out produces Pettersson and Petterssons defense is marginally better than nylanders D play. 

 

Its not like Petey is going out there dominating the dot...6 yrs 10.5.

558

198

286

484

Nylander .35goals per game, .867 points per game

364

153

218

371

 Pettersson .42goals per game, 1.019 points per game.

 

Which of those numbers equals "usually out produces"?  I'm confused how someone can say something like that and provide no data or even an explanation on why their eyes see something that clearly isn't factual.

 

You all can wish that Pettersson isn't a phenomenal player and an elite center but he is and he's going to get paid.  There is a small chance he takes a shortterm deal worth less than he should get for the team but I won't be shocked if he gets 12mil/year, and yes, he's worth it based on the current market.

[HKSR]

24 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

For the millionth time....

 

They have $25M of salary coming off the books this upcoming summer (if you include the LTIR players).  Of course they're going to have tighten the belt elsewhere but they can absolutely make it work.

Yeah, making it work and making it effective are 2 different issues here.

[Kragar]

1 minute ago, Plaguez said:

I'm confused how someone can say something like that and provide no data or even an explanation on why their eyes see something that clearly isn't factual.

Welcome to the forum.  Sadly, it happens all too often.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Plaguez said:

558

198

286

484

Nylander .35goals per game, .867 points per game

364

153

218

371

 Pettersson .42goals per game, 1.019 points per game.

 

Which of those numbers equals "usually out produces"?  I'm confused how someone can say something like that and provide no data or even an explanation on why their eyes see something that clearly isn't factual.

 

You all can wish that Pettersson isn't a phenomenal player and an elite center but he is and he's going to get paid.  There is a small chance he takes a shortterm deal worth less than he should get for the team but I won't be shocked if he gets 12mil/year, and yes, he's worth it based on the current market.

[-dlc-]

Ohhhhh, makes sense now. I always wondered why Nylander's helmet looked so dorky and didn't fit properly....he's got a bunch of money stuffed up under there.

[gwarrior]

16 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Wouldn't that be lucky

 

I would be. But that would be in the final........... and if that happened, we better beat their asses like they owe us money or leaf fans will never shut the hell up.............. and the already won't shut the hell up.

[-dlc-]

Too much Leaf in here.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

33 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Ohhhhh, makes sense now. I always wondered why Nylander's helmet looked so dorky and didn't fit properly....he's got a bunch of money stuffed up under there.

heh, If I worked in a liquor store & he came in to buy some booze, I'd still ask him for his 'ID" to make sure he's of age.

[Kragar]

38 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Ohhhhh, makes sense now. I always wondered why Nylander's helmet looked so dorky and didn't fit properly....he's got a bunch of money stuffed up under there.

 

[King Heffy]

Really need to trade him or one of their other floaters for NHL quality defence.  Doubling down on the defence-optional approach isn't going to lead to playoff success.  11.5 million for a guy who's intimidated by the puck is too much, regardless of offensive output.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

A young stud defender?  Who's available and willing to trade for a forward in his prime?  Has to be a cup contender willing to risk overpaying for a 5-month rental.  K'Andre Miller or Braden Schneider?  Oh god - you're not thinking... Quinn Hughes, are you??

 

Either way, it'd make zero sense for Toronto to trade away Nylander.  That would literally crater their chances of making the playoffs this year.  He has put the team on his back.

 

Hughes for Nylander, no, I'm not a moron.

 

I could see maybe Schneider for Willie. 

[Miss Korea]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Hughes for Nylander, no, I'm not a moron.

 

I could see maybe Schneider for Willie. 

 

You're insane.  Toronto is a playoff team.  Nylander is one of their biggest playoff performers.  He is one of the best players in the NHL this year.  How can you possibly justify trading away a team's MVP when they're firmly in a playoff position?  Do you honestly believe Toronto will make the playoffs if they replace Nylander with someone like Schneider?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

You're insane.

 

yea cool it with this kind of comment.

 

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

  Toronto is a playoff team.  Nylander is one of their biggest playoff performers.  He is one of the best players in the NHL this year.  How can you possibly justify trading away a team's MVP when they're firmly in a playoff position?  Do you honestly believe Toronto will make the playoffs if they replace Nylander with someone like Schneider?

 

Because they can't afford their top heavy approach. I was also discussing the alternative of moving Mitch instead. 

[Miss Korea]

Just now, Bob Long said:

yea cool it with this kind of comment.

 

Because they can't afford their top heavy approach. I was also discussing the alternative of moving Mitch instead. 

 

No, what you're suggesting with Nylander is crazy.  It would be like us trading Quinn Hughes to upgrade our offense.

 

Answer the question.  Do you honestly believe Toronto can make the playoffs by trading away Nylander for a bottom-four defenseman?

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

No, what you're suggesting with Nylander is crazy.  It would be like us trading Quinn Hughes to upgrade our offense.

 

Answer the question.  Do you honestly believe Toronto can make the playoffs by trading away Nylander for a bottom-four defenseman?

 

I said a stud defender. 

 

And yes I do think they could with the right player. TO won't make it out of the 1st round again with that trash d. 

 

I think they could possibly move Marner as well. If they can move that contract they can also get a legitimate goaltender. 

 

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I said a stud defender. 

 

And yes I do think they could with the right player. TO won't make it out of the 1st round again with that trash d. 

 

I think they could possibly move Marner as well. If they can move that contract they can also get a legitimate goaltender. 

 

Could also possibly bring in a Tanev type rental on D as well with that savings.  Tanev+Schneider+Goalie makes them better.

[Miss Korea]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I said a stud defender. 

 

And yes I do think they could with the right player. TO won't make it out of the 1st round again with that trash d. 

 

I think they could possibly move Marner as well. If they can move that contract they can also get a legitimate goaltender. 

 

Braden Schneider is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.  K'Andre Miller is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.

 

Back to the Vancouver analogy.  Regardless of what you think our problems are (maybe upgrading a FWD), how does it make any sense to trade away Quinn Hughes to achieve that goal?  Literally the best player on your team.... and you trade him away.  How does that make sense to you?  That's what you're proposing Toronto does.  With all the media exposure gets, how did you miss the memo that Nylander is by far the biggest reason they're in a playoff position?

 

And don't get carried away with this trash defense nonsense.  When healthy, the Leafs have an okay blueline.  Brodie-Rielly has been a fantastic pairing.  McCabe is fitting in.  Giordano and Liljegren are doing fine as well.  Despite the blueline getting gutted with injuries (Timmins, Klingberg, Gio, Liljegren have all been on IR this year), the only time the defence looks really bad is when Samsonov is in net.  Obviously they should be looking to make upgrades at the deadline, but this idea that a healthy Leafs blueline is just full of AHL trash is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this forum.  Suggesting a team trade their MVP away to make "upgrades" is just as bad.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Braden Schneider is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.  K'Andre Miller is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.

 

Back to the Vancouver analogy.  Regardless of what you think our problems are (maybe upgrading a FWD), how does it make any sense to trade away Quinn Hughes to achieve that goal?  Literally the best player on your team.... and you trade him away.  How does that make sense to you?  That's what you're proposing Toronto does.  With all the media exposure gets, how did you miss the memo that Nylander is by far the biggest reason they're in a playoff position?

 

And don't get carried away with this trash defense nonsense.  When healthy, the Leafs have an okay blueline.  Brodie-Rielly has been a fantastic pairing.  McCabe is fitting in.  Giordano and Liljegren are doing fine as well.  Despite the blueline getting gutted with injuries (Timmins, Klingberg, Gio, Liljegren have all been on IR this year), the only time the defence looks really bad is when Samsonov is in net.  Obviously they should be looking to make upgrades at the deadline, but this idea that a healthy Leafs blueline is just full of AHL trash is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this forum.  Suggesting a team trade their MVP away to make "upgrades" is just as bad.

The only legit NHL D Toronto had are Brodie McCabe, and Gio.  Schneider is a huge upgrade over all of those guys.  Reilly and Lingeren are proven defensive liabilities.

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Could also possibly bring in a Tanev type rental on D as well with that savings.  Tanev+Schneider+Goalie makes them better.

 

 

Marner for Tanev and Marky makes TO a legit contender. Might resurrect Huberdough to have a real partner. 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Braden Schneider is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.  K'Andre Miller is a stud and he's playing bottom four minutes.

 

Back to the Vancouver analogy.  Regardless of what you think our problems are (maybe upgrading a FWD), how does it make any sense to trade away Quinn Hughes to achieve that goal?  Literally the best player on your team.... and you trade him away.  How does that make sense to you?  That's what you're proposing Toronto does.  With all the media exposure gets, how did you miss the memo that Nylander is by far the biggest reason they're in a playoff position?

 

 

no I'm proposing that TO trades from a position of strength to shore up one, maybe two, glaring weaknesses. 

 

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

And don't get carried away with this trash defense nonsense.  When healthy, the Leafs have an okay blueline.  Brodie-Rielly has been a fantastic pairing.  McCabe is fitting in.  Giordano and Liljegren are doing fine as well.  Despite the blueline getting gutted with injuries (Timmins, Klingberg, Gio, Liljegren have all been on IR this year), the only time the defence looks really bad is when Samsonov is in net.  Obviously they should be looking to make upgrades at the deadline, but this idea that a healthy Leafs blueline is just full of AHL trash is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this forum.  Suggesting a team trade their MVP away to make "upgrades" is just as bad.

 

Like I said, maybe the right move is Mitch.