Bob Long Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Ah just realized Marner NMC kicks in this season. Looks like the Leaves are stuck in top heavy town. Oh well, looking forward to the 1st round exit, thats always entertaining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The only legit NHL D Toronto had are Brodie McCabe, and Gio. Schneider is a huge upgrade over all of those guys. Reilly and Lingeren are proven defensive liabilities. By every single metric fathomable, Timothy Liljegren is a defensive defenceman. He blocks shots and prevents scoring chances. That's his job, he knows it, and he does it pretty well. Morgan Rielly is a different story. He has been the second best player on this Leafs team this year. It is thanks to him and Nylander that Toronto is even in a playoff position right now. They have five solid defencemen when healthy. They at least need one more. You should actually try watching some real hockey games once in a while. You have literally never offered a single piece of "proof" to back up your claims about any defencemen you claim to be "AHL trash". Rielly and Liljegren aren't NHL D? Prove it. 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: no I'm proposing that TO trades from a position of strength to shore up one, maybe two, glaring weaknesses. Like I said, maybe the right move is Mitch. Marner has a NMC. He's going nowhere. If they trade Nylander, Toronto's supposed forward strength suddenly becomes its own weakness. The puck has literally been on his stick all season long. I can guarantee you they would not be in the playoffs without Nylander. I can guarantee you that should they dump Nylander, they will crash out of the playoffs in the second half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, Miss Korea said: By every single metric fathomable, Timothy Liljegren is a defensive defenceman. He blocks shots and prevents scoring chances. That's his job, he knows it, and he does it pretty well. Morgan Rielly is a different story. He has been the second best player on this Leafs team this year. It is thanks to him and Nylander that Toronto is even in a playoff position right now. They have five solid defencemen when healthy. They at least need one more. You should actually try watching some real hockey games once in a while. You have literally never offered a single piece of "proof" to back up your claims about any defencemen you claim to be "AHL trash". Rielly and Liljegren aren't NHL D? Prove it. Marner has a NMC. He's going nowhere. If they trade Nylander, Toronto's supposed forward strength suddenly becomes its own weakness. The puck has literally been on his stick all season long. I can guarantee you they would not be in the playoffs without Nylander. I can guarantee you that should they dump Nylander, they will crash out of the playoffs in the second half of the season. I've seen them play, and I don't need one of your Jfresh charts to realize that the way they play in their own zone is unacceptable. Try actually watching the game instead of relying on the gospel of analytics dweebs who don't understand the sport. Rielly's refusal to learn how to play defence is a big reason why Toronto keeps getting eliminated early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: By every single metric fathomable, Timothy Liljegren is a defensive defenceman. He blocks shots and prevents scoring chances. That's his job, he knows it, and he does it pretty well. Morgan Rielly is a different story. He has been the second best player on this Leafs team this year. It is thanks to him and Nylander that Toronto is even in a playoff position right now. They have five solid defencemen when healthy. They at least need one more. You should actually try watching some real hockey games once in a while. You have literally never offered a single piece of "proof" to back up your claims about any defencemen you claim to be "AHL trash". Rielly and Liljegren aren't NHL D? Prove it. Marner has a NMC. He's going nowhere. If they trade Nylander, Toronto's supposed forward strength suddenly becomes its own weakness. The puck has literally been on his stick all season long. I can guarantee you they would not be in the playoffs without Nylander. I can guarantee you that should they dump Nylander, they will crash out of the playoffs in the second half of the season. depends on the return. What if it was for Marky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Morgan Rielly is a different story. He has been the second best player on this Leafs team this year. Do you actually watch games? Watch Rielly when the puck is in Toronto's end? This is the dumbest comment I've read all day. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Just now, Rekker said: Do you actually watch games? Watch Rielly when the puck is in Toronto's end? This is the dumbest comment I've read all day. its like Bieksa said, if your name isn't Reilly your job is to defend Nyladner for 11.5 is just fugly imo. Will age like milk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I've seen them play, and I don't need one of your Jfresh charts to realize that the way they play in their own zone is unacceptable. Try actually watching the game instead of relying on the gospel of analytics dweebs who don't understand the sport. Rielly's refusal to learn how to play defence is a big reason why Toronto keeps getting eliminated early. Sure, okay. So we're just supposed to take everything you say at face value, then? You're the one coming out here and saying they're "proven defensive liabilities". You haven't proven anything. You're conveniently choosing to ignore stats, so go find me some articles from this year (or last) that suggest Morgan Rielly shouldn't be in the NHL. I'm sure there's some hockey pundit out there that can back up your claims. 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: depends on the return. What if it was for Marky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Sure, okay. So we're just supposed to take everything you say at face value, then? You're the one coming out here and saying they're "proven defensive liabilities". You haven't proven anything. You're conveniently choosing to ignore stats, so go find me some articles from this year (or last) that suggest Morgan Rielly shouldn't be in the NHL. I'm sure there's some hockey pundit out there that can back up your claims. Personal opinion, which is just as valid as the Jfresh trash you constantly post. I'm not sure how you can look at the way he plays in his own zone and consider that acceptable, but that's your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27 Percent Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Plaguez said: 558 198 286 484 Nylander .35goals per game, .867 points per game 364 153 218 371 Pettersson .42goals per game, 1.019 points per game. Which of those numbers equals "usually out produces"? I'm confused how someone can say something like that and provide no data or even an explanation on why their eyes see something that clearly isn't factual. You all can wish that Pettersson isn't a phenomenal player and an elite center but he is and he's going to get paid. There is a small chance he takes a shortterm deal worth less than he should get for the team but I won't be shocked if he gets 12mil/year, and yes, he's worth it based on the current market. How about the number that nylander has produced more pts thant Petey in 3 of the last 4 seasons while playing second line mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Nylander wants more than Tavares, and max term, and Treliving will cave. Treliving is acting as if the cap is going up $10 million next year. Looks like their poor core four could all have NMCs, so maybe they'll try and trade Max Domi to get a goalie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, Bob Long said: its like Bieksa said, if your name isn't Reilly your job is to defend Nyladner for 11.5 is just fugly imo. Will age like milk. Such big monies and accolades being tossed around because of stats. Stats don't win games. When you score, against who, what you do in your end, takes, gives, board battles. Even if you put this on a fancy chart it means little to me. I know the player that is the flamingo type, and I know the player that rips the head of a bunny rabbit to win. It's in the mind and heart. No charts for this. No charts for real hockey vs shinny hockey, garbage time vs crunch time. Watch the game, its often obvious. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 10 minutes ago, Rekker said: Do you actually watch games? Watch Rielly when the puck is in Toronto's end? This is the dumbest comment I've read all day. I don't watch all the games, but we are oversaturated with Toronto media. And all I hear from the media, from the fans... is how well Morgan Rielly has been playing this year. And I trust the general opinion of Leafs fans about their own players than a Canucks fan who watches them a few times a year. HIs defensive concerns are obvious - everyone knows about it by now. Rielly's gap control and puck battling are exceptionally poor, and his puck-clearing ability isn't much better either. But his offensive contributions more than make up for it. Their powerplay is better than ours. That's why he gets paired up with a hyper-defensive D-man like Brodie. 3 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Personal opinion, which is just as valid as the Jfresh trash you constantly post. I'm not sure how you can look at the way he plays in his own zone and consider that acceptable, but that's your opinion. Oh, okay. So in your mind, personal opinion = proof. So you can just go around saying "proven" this and "proven" that, and all that proof is just... your personal opinion. If you truly believe that's good enough, it really shouldn't be that hard for you to find one hockey journalist who agrees with you. Hell, find just one Leafs fan who agrees with you. You said Rielly is AHL trash. Back your words up. For the record, the JFresh trash completely backs up your claim of Rielly being a defensive liability. But you took it a step further so that's on you to provide evidence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 14 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I don't watch all the games, but we are oversaturated with Toronto media. And all I hear from the media, from the fans... is how well Morgan Rielly has been playing this year. And I trust the general opinion of Leafs fans about their own players than a Canucks fan who watches them a few times a year. HIs defensive concerns are obvious - everyone knows about it by now. Rielly's gap control and puck battling are exceptionally poor, and his puck-clearing ability isn't much better either. But his offensive contributions more than make up for it. Their powerplay is better than ours. That's why he gets paired up with a hyper-defensive D-man like Brodie. Oh, okay. So in your mind, personal opinion = proof. So you can just go around saying "proven" this and "proven" that, and all that proof is just... your personal opinion. If you truly believe that's good enough, it really shouldn't be that hard for you to find one hockey journalist who agrees with you. Hell, find just one Leafs fan who agrees with you. You said Rielly is AHL trash. Back your words up. For the record, the JFresh trash completely backs up your claim of Rielly being a defensive liability. But you took it a step further so that's on you to provide evidence. Even you said his play in his own zone is terrible. Personally, I don't think any defenceman who can't play defence belongs in the NHL. Offensive output is irrelevant when you can't play like an NHLer in your own zone, which you admit Rielly can't. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: And I trust the general opinion of Leafs fans about their own players Leafs fans are the biggest bunch of misguided clowns on the planet. Their kiss ass media leading the way with their brainwash stories. How many years have the Leafs been cup favourites now? How many years have fans bought into that crap now? The results. It's a shinny team that can score, and score well. That's it, that's all they do well. Figures the same fan base that believes that team is a contender, believes Reilly to be a good dman, because he puts up points. Most dense and gulllible fan base on the planet. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, King Heffy said: HIs defensive concerns are obvious - everyone knows about it by now. Rielly's gap control and puck battling are exceptionally poor, and his puck-clearing ability isn't much better either. You just said Rielly is the second best Leafs player this season, by a long shot. Lol. He's a defenseman that can't play D very well but puts up points on an offensively good team. He's the poster boy for why that team will never win anything meaningful. Edited January 7 by Rekker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barn Burner Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Nylander's best seasons were the last two, where he was just over a point a game. Oddly enough, this just happens to be his contract year and he's piling up the points. Go figure, right? Not saying he's a horrible player. Just saying, isn't it amazing how guys like him, Bo and Huberdough have these amazing seasons while playing for their next contract? And it makes you wonder... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-68 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) As a Canucks fan I would love to see the Toronto Flames add all the Hubby contracts to their roster as possible and have 50%+ of cap tied up in 4 or 5 players. Yes, Free Willy is a great player, still .... Edited January 8 by Rocket-68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) No mention at all about whether there’s a NTC, even though there are countless stories about this impending signing. I would think there will be a full NTC, given little Willy has the Leafs by the coconuts on this one. One team desperate not to see one of their most skilled players walk away this offseason (thanks to their original incompetence in negotiating a contract that expires as a UFA). One player greedy as can be, following the path of the other 3 from the core-four greedsters, taking the Leafs for all they can. Pretty soon, we’ll see Petey’s true colours. He talked about wanting to be on a winning team as being the most important thing to him. He’s on one now, and he should know that a cap-balanced team is what makes a successful team. Will he take a team-friendly deal, like Hughes and Miller? Or follow in the steps of his Swedish pal, ‘lil Willy? Edited January 8 by Slegr 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 23 minutes ago, Slegr said: No mention at all about whether there’s a NTC, even though there are countless stories about this impending signing. I would think there will be a full NTC, given little Willy has the Leafs by the coconuts on this one. One team desperate not to see one of their most skilled players walk away this offseason (thanks to their original incompetence in negotiating a contract that expires as a UFA). One player greedy as can be, following the path of the other 3 from the core-four greedsters, taking the Leafs for all they can. Pretty soon, we’ll see Petey’s true colours. He talked about wanting to be on a winning team as being the most important thing to him. He’s on one now, and he should know that a cap-balanced team is what makes a successful team. Will he take a team-friendly deal, like Hughes and Miller? Or follow in the steps of his Swedish pal, ‘lil Willy? Nylander was born in Calgary. So that might explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: yea cool it with this kind of comment. Because they can't afford their top heavy approach. I was also discussing the alternative of moving Mitch instead. Or they just hope they can outsbore their issues. Maybe they sell high on Knies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, stawns said: Or they just hope they can outsbore their issues. Maybe they sell high on Knies?but But they need his physical play. I guess they could be looking at moving Marner in the offseason . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 hours ago, Miss Korea said: He's going to continue regressing, but should be good enough to support the second line. Maybe a 3 x $4M? I agree, but I could see him aging as a top six player, could be more than that tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Rekker said: Leafs fans are the biggest bunch of misguided clowns on the planet. Their kiss ass media leading the way with their brainwash stories. How many years have the Leafs been cup favourites now? How many years have fans bought into that crap now? The results. It's a shinny team that can score, and score well. That's it, that's all they do well. Figures the same fan base that believes that team is a contender, believes Reilly to be a good dman, because he puts up points. Most dense and gulllible fan base on the planet. It is very bizarre for Canucks fans to go and label other teams contenders or pretenders, when our team has only qualified for the playoffs twice in the last decade. Regardless of whether you think the Leafs are primed for playoff success, they have consistently passed the first hurdle of actually making the playoffs. It is more important than you think for a team to win regular season games. I don't care about the Toronto cup hype - what matters is that they get in every year. How many Canucks GMs and head coaches have gotten fired for failing to reach that first hurdle? And yes, Rielly is their best defenceman. Nobody in the league is disputing that. Every NHL recognizes that and focuses on covering him as the pointman. They also focus exploiting his defensive weaknesses, but his partner Brodie does a solid job of covering for him. And yes, I do trust the attitude of Leafs fans, especially after a loss. I don't care whether they think they have the best players or worst players in the league. But when guys like Rielly/Nylander consistently gets praised after both wins AND losses, they are clearly not the problem. 2 hours ago, Rekker said: You just said Rielly is the second best Leafs player this season, by a long shot. Lol. He's a defenseman that can't play D very well but puts up points on an offensively good team. He's the poster boy for why that team will never win anything meaningful. If you think the regular season is so meaningless, explain to me why the Canucks have consistently failed to make the playoffs. I'm never going to suggest this Leafs team can make the Cup final. But I'm also never going to suggest this team is trash. They're not. If they really were trash, they'd look like Chicago. Tell me - are you not enjoying watching the Canucks right now? Does all the joy and excitement mean absolutely nothing to you if we don't get past the first round? Is that what you're trying to say? 2 hours ago, King Heffy said: Even you said his play in his own zone is terrible. Personally, I don't think any defenceman who can't play defence belongs in the NHL. Offensive output is irrelevant when you can't play like an NHLer in your own zone, which you admit Rielly can't. Everything you've said about his defensive play is captured in the analytics you seem to despise so much. Not even the biggest Rielly fan is going to suggest he is a good defender, but not even the biggest hater is going to suggest he isn't a great NHL player. Offensive output is irrelevant in what context? Erik Karlsson is the reigning Norris Trophy winner because of his offensive output. By acclamation, he was the most valuable defenceman last year. How can you reconcile that (and the fact that Rielly is heavily praised across the league) with your opinion? And then how can you pass off your opinion as some kind of proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: How is Toronto going to fit this under the cap? Fun fact: Toronto in it's history has NEVER won more than 2 rounds in the playoffs. In 1967 the last of the original 6. Only four teams of the six get in the playoffs. Winning 8 games won you the Stanley Cup. So despite 13 cup wins. They have never won more than 2 rounds. Well they did it in 93 with Gilmore and lost only because they didn’t call out Gretzky for a high stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, sassbs said: Well they did it in 93 with Gilmore and lost only because they didn’t call out Gretzky for a high stick They still have never won past the second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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