Second line center

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Petey DIDN't play center Milller did no matter how many times you state that, its not going to make it change.

I seen Petey take one face off and I think its because Miller got thrown out. Petey may have had a couple of more but I only remember that one. 

Petey, as a Center, doesn't go into the corners to retrieve the puck , in general, Miller does.

Petey is still not strong on faceoffs so how do you come up with " We have the best 1-2 centre combination in the league."?

Petey's line has been struggling lately and the thrd line has been caring a lot of the play the past while.

A bit of homerism running through you there Alf? 

Petey 100% played centre. Miller took some faceoffs but Petey played centre during open play. 
Them’s the facts. 
Bow to the empties who, in their short existence, have forgotten more about hockey than you will ever know.

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Petey 100% played centre. Miller took some faceoffs but Petey played centre during open play. 
Them’s the facts. 
Bow to the empties who, in their short existence, have forgotten more about hockey than you will ever know.

These are the facts Alf:   Miller - Faceoffs Won-12- Lost-10

                                          Peterson- FW-1 - Lost- 2 

Check your "FACTS" Alf. 

[Tusk]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

These are the facts Alf:   Miller - Faceoffs Won-12- Lost-10

                                          Peterson- FW-1 - Lost- 2 

Check your "FACTS" Alf. 

Bottom line is we dont need another center.... we need wingers for Petey. We already have them but I think the pressure of being called "the first line" is not doing them any favors. We should call them the third line for a while and they will wake the hell up.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

These are the facts Alf:   Miller - Faceoffs Won-12- Lost-10

                                          Peterson- FW-1 - Lost- 2 

Check your "FACTS" Alf. 

From your comments it looks like Alf isn’t the only fan who passes out before games. 
There are new empties for you to bow to. 

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

From your comments it looks like Alf isn’t the only fan who passes out before games. 
There are new empties for you to bow to. 

RIIGHT! Gotcha Alf! 

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, Tusk said:

And alot of contracts to renew after our stanley cup run.

Yeah this is a key point. There will be some major work and decisions to make in the off season such as:

- Resigning EP and Hronek

- Is Lekkerimaki ready to play in the NHL?

- Who is on our 2nd D pairing? Do we resign Zad? And who is 2RD? Do we resign Cole for $3m for that? Can Tocc accept a lefty playing there?

- Is Silovs ready to be an NHL backup or do we need to re-up DeSmith?

- Can we afford to resign Blueger, Joshua, Lafferty? Or do we need Suter, Aman, Podz, Karlsson, Bains to step in as cheaper options?

 

All of the above will impact on how much we have available to sort out our top 6. And realistically, maybe the top 6 and D corps needs to be sorted first and then you cut your cloth on what you can afford for the bottom 6 (e.g. as good as they have been maybe Blueger, Joshua are too expensive to resign, maybe Garland needs to be traded...)

Edited January 8 by BigTramFan

[CanuckMan]

Ok here’s another out of the box proposal, call me crazy cause I might actually be after I say this:

 

Boeser - Miller - Kuzmenko

Mikheyev - Petterson - Hughes

Joshua - Bluegar - Garland

Aman - Sutr - Lafferty

 

Soucy - Hronek

Zadorav - Myers

Cole - Juulsen 

 

Put Hughes on Peteys wing. You found him a winger and don’t need to worry about who to take out of the Dmen when everyone is healthy. 
 

Trade for another top 4 dman by the trade deadline. 
 

*mic drop*

[Sativika]

Any Dark Horse Canuck prospects of note?!?!!?!?  Not that any can step in immediately, but perhaps next season? Obviously after the WJC, Leks, Willander, and D-Petey, but they're all a lil' ways away from any sort of NHL appearance. Perhaps Leks closest of them all.

 

I'm intrigued by the many names mentioned in CFF being discussed regarding positional needs, mostly a scoring winger, RHD, and 2nd line centre; in that order I'm guessing.

That being said.

 

I don't think that we're in a position to obtain rentals. If we're in the business of shoring up our team positional needs. And it seem so, then perhaps a patient regard is required to do such. What I mean is we obtain positional needs in house, or trade for players that have upside for the long haul that won't be too costly.

 

To obtain the likes of Guentzal, Lindholm, Hanifin would be great, but with our cap issues that wouldn't be wise. There's other player options that are cheaper like, Peeke, Fabbri, Sprong. Perhaps taking chance on someone like Jonatan Berggren, or even Sean Monahan.

 

I realize we have our own in Hroneck, Petey, Zads and other notables to sign and managing cap is most paramount to keep 'em all. And it's obvious JR/PA will do everything they can to make it happen. It's pretty apparent that our roster will look different come next season.

 

I dunno. I'm no expert on these things. As I mentioned, I just feel that a rental makes no sense where we are right now. But it makes perfect sense to acquire less expensive options that could work out for us for longer than a half a season. 

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!

 

[wai_lai416]

12 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Petey DIDN't play center Milller did no matter how many times you state that, its not going to make it change.

I seen Petey take one face off and I think its because Miller got thrown out. Petey may have had a couple of more but I only remember that one. 

Petey, as a Center, doesn't go into the corners to retrieve the puck , in general, Miller does.

Petey is still not strong on faceoffs so how do you come up with " We have the best 1-2 centre combination in the league."?

Petey's line has been struggling lately and the thrd line has been caring a lot of the play the past while.

A bit of homerism running through you there Alf? 

To be fair I don’t think it’s the centres job to go in and dig pucks out of the corner.. they shouldn’t be as deep as the wingers as they have to be one of the first forward back in the defensive zone. That’s why defensively I think EP is far superior to miller. Because ep defensive awareness is much higher but miller is way better at the tougher faceoff and if he’s already in the defensive zone he’s decent but if it’s a transitional play from offense to defence he’s usually one of the last to get back to the defensive zone. As for ep and miller I think it’s more ep plays the center on the line but miller takes the faceoff. And then switch roles miller plays more of a wing than center except for the faceoff. But in terms of responsibility defensively it’s usually ep in that center role minus the faceoff

[Jeremy Hronek]

Tomas Hertl from San Jose?

 

1. What would his acquisition cost be?

 

2. Although he is signed for the long term, would we be able to make it work from a long term cap perspective?

[wai_lai416]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Tomas Hertl from San Jose?

 

1. What would his acquisition cost be?

 

2. Although he is signed for the long term, would we be able to make it work from a long term cap perspective?

i think hertl is a terrible contract unless san jose retains he's going to cost 8+ mil a season until he's 37 and at 8+ mil he's not even a ppg guy.. people were complaining about boesers contract.. boeser basically does the same production wise at a far cheaper cap hit

[Rypien-Punch]

Joel Eriksson Ek from Minnesota would be a solid addition and he is the right age to grow with the team. Maybe package a trade with Brandon Duhaime for some bottom 6 grit. Both players are 26

 

Pettersson Miller Boeser

Mikheyev Eriksson Ek Hoglander

Joshua Blueger Garland 

Duhaime Suter Lafferty

Aman

 

Edited January 8 by Rypien-Punch

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

i think hertl is a terrible contract unless san jose retains he's going to cost 8+ mil a season until he's 37 and at 8+ mil he's not even a ppg guy.. people were complaining about boesers contract.. boeser basically does the same production wise at a far cheaper cap hit

Good points but if we’re operating under the assumption that the Canucks’ have a finite window (between now and 4 years from now, all of our main young core players will either be UFA’s or RFA’s), then perhaps acquiring prime Hertl would make sense?

 

The Hertl/Boeser comparison is a good one but a couple of things to bear in mind:

 

1. Tomas Hertl is a center and centers, as we know, play a more important position.

 

2. Hertl has an excellent two-way game which would fit Tocchet’s system.

 

3. Hertl’s point total might be a bit understated these past few years since he’s been a part of some very sub par Sharks teams.  Maybe that changes if he were to come to Vancouver?

 

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

21 minutes ago, Rypien-Punch said:

Joel Eriksson Ek from Minnesota would be a solid addition and he is the right age to grow with the team. Maybe package a trade with Brandon Duhaime for some bottom 6 grit. Both players are 26

 

Pettersson Miller Boeser

Mikheyev Eriksson Ek Hoglander

Joshua Blueger Garland 

Duhaime Suter Lafferty

Aman

 

Funny you mentioned Eriksson-Ek (as an aside, are we all sure that we want another Swedish Eriksson back in Vancouver after what happened last time?  ;-))
 

In all seriousness though, Eriksson-Ek would be fantastic but there’s no way Minnesota would ever give him up since he arguably has the best long term cap hit in the league (and he’s still youngish).   
 

Would love him for to be here but I can’t see it happening.

[wai_lai416]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Good points but if we’re operating under the assumption that the Canucks’ have a finite window (between now and 4 years from now, all of our main young core players will either be UFA’s or RFA’s), then perhaps acquiring prime Hertl would make sense?

 

The Hertl/Boeser comparison is a good one but a couple of things to bear in mind:

 

1. Tomas Hertl is a center and centers, as we know, play a more important position.

 

2. Hertl has an excellent two-way game which would fit Tocchet’s system.

 

3. Hertl’s point total might be a bit understated these past few years since he’s been a part of some very sub par Sharks teams.  Maybe that changes if he were to come to Vancouver?

 

 

i think that's a massive risk to take.. production wise i mean last year he have a 100+ point karlsson and he still only managed 63 points.. if they are just going to go with EP/Miller ont he wing and get another center at 8+ mil.. then why did we get rid of horvat then. hertl is likely going to continue to decline he's already trending less than last year. and if we have no one to play with EP on the second line.. i don't see how if we move EP with miller.. there's still no one to play with hertl

[Jeremy Hronek]

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i think that's a massive risk to take.. production wise i mean last year he have a 100+ point karlsson and he still only managed 63 points.. if they are just going to go with EP/Miller ont he wing and get another center at 8+ mil.. then why did we get rid of horvat then. hertl is likely going to continue to decline he's already trending less than last year. and if we have no one to play with EP on the second line.. i don't see how if we move EP with miller.. there's still no one to play with hertl

All good points.  
 

 

[RJCF96]

On 1/7/2024 at 2:48 AM, CanuckMan said:

For a moment, forget Petey was ever a C. You think the Canucks can’t have one 12 Million winger when the Maple leafs have Marner/Nylander for 11-12 million (currently or soon to be). At least Miller is signed to a decent contract. I think we can look at getting a 5-8 mil 2C. 
 

Just an out of the box idea. Or we need to get a 5-8 mil 2LW or 2RW. Mikheyev/Kuzmenko might be 2nd line players on our team but they are 3rd line players on a contender.

 

This is where not retaining Toffoli was a big mistake in my opinion. He gave us some actual skill on the 2nd line.

Tocchet would've love having a player like him in the line-up. Plays well with Petey, have a knack for goals, and can also be counted on for defensive play and PK.

[RJCF96]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Tomas Hertl from San Jose?

 

1. What would his acquisition cost be?

 

2. Although he is signed for the long term, would we be able to make it work from a long term cap perspective?

 

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

i think hertl is a terrible contract unless san jose retains he's going to cost 8+ mil a season until he's 37 and at 8+ mil he's not even a ppg guy.. people were complaining about boesers contract.. boeser basically does the same production wise at a far cheaper cap hit

 

1 hour ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Good points but if we’re operating under the assumption that the Canucks’ have a finite window (between now and 4 years from now, all of our main young core players will either be UFA’s or RFA’s), then perhaps acquiring prime Hertl would make sense?

 

The Hertl/Boeser comparison is a good one but a couple of things to bear in mind:

 

1. Tomas Hertl is a center and centers, as we know, play a more important position.

 

2. Hertl has an excellent two-way game which would fit Tocchet’s system.

 

3. Hertl’s point total might be a bit understated these past few years since he’s been a part of some very sub par Sharks teams.  Maybe that changes if he were to come to Vancouver?

 

 

Stay away from the Hertl contract. This could eventually be like OEL 2.0

[PhillipBlunt]

14 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yeah this is a key point. There will be some major work and decisions to make in the off season such as:

- Resigning EP and Hronek

- Is Lekkerimaki ready to play in the NHL? By this time next year, yes.

- Who is on our 2nd D pairing? I think that'll be sorted in the off-season. For now, it could be Zadorov - Cole

Do we resign Zad? Yes

And who is 2RD? Cole. In the offseason, Alvin will sort it out.

Do we resign Cole for $3m for that? No. I'd be fine with him being signed at a cheaper rate for 3rd pairing with Soucy.

Can Tocc accept a lefty playing there? Possibly. He has already.

- Is Silovs ready to be an NHL backup or do we need to re-up DeSmith? Silovs might be, but if DeSmith is good with a similar caphit next season, you go with him. 

- Can we afford to resign Blueger, Joshua, Lafferty? Joshua for sure. Blueger too. 

Or do we need Suter, Aman, Podz, Karlsson, Bains to step in as cheaper options? Pods and Karlsson should be able to step in next season. 

 

All of the above will impact on how much we have available to sort out our top 6. And realistically, maybe the top 6 and D corps needs to be sorted first and then you cut your cloth on what you can afford for the bottom 6 (e.g. as good as they have been maybe Blueger, Joshua are too expensive to resign, maybe Garland needs to be traded...)

 

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

To be fair I don’t think it’s the centres job to go in and dig pucks out of the corner.. they shouldn’t be as deep as the wingers as they have to be one of the first forward back in the defensive zone. That’s why defensively I think EP is far superior to miller. Because ep defensive awareness is much higher but miller is way better at the tougher faceoff and if he’s already in the defensive zone he’s decent but if it’s a transitional play from offense to defence he’s usually one of the last to get back to the defensive zone. As for ep and miller I think it’s more ep plays the center on the line but miller takes the faceoff. And then switch roles miller plays more of a wing than center except for the faceoff. But in terms of responsibility defensively it’s usually ep in that center role minus the faceoff

 

I disagree, if you are in the offensive zone your main job isn't to play defense. Keeping puck possession and keeping the puck in the zone is the priority, see the Blueger line. Leaving your winger to fight for the puck in the corners is just going to leave him getting out manned and the puck out of the zone.

[RJCF96]

47 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

I disagree, if you are in the offensive zone your main job isn't to play defense. Keeping puck possession and keeping the puck in the zone is the priority, see the Blueger line. Leaving your winger to fight for the puck in the corners is just going to leave him getting out manned and the puck out of the zone.

In the offensive zone, a player job is to play offense. But in today's game, if you don't have good defensive awareness and turn the puck over, it could lead to a quick transition play for the other team that could lead to a rush chance or potentially goal against.

 

What I am saying is, no matter where a player is on ice, they have to be aware of the situation, and understand where the risk could be coming from when handling the puck.

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, RJCF96 said:

In the offensive zone, a player job is to play offense. But in today's game, if you don't have good defensive awareness and turn the puck over, it could lead to a quick transition play for the other team that could lead to a rush chance or potentially goal against.

 

What I am saying is, no matter where a player is on ice, they have to be aware of the situation, and understand where the risk could be coming from when handling the puck.

I agree, that defensive awareness has to be there, but you aren't going to hang out at the blue line in the O zone because you think that you are going to get scored on. 

Like I said, the Blueger line is a wonderful example of how its done. 

I rarely see them ever get hemmed in their own zone when they are on the ice.

[Rypien-Punch]

One player I have been really impressed with this season is Fabian Zetterlund from the Sharks. Here is an idea to get a new second line C in Mikael Granlund and a new RW. It would cost us Kuzmenko, our 2024 1st and a good prospect. (maybe Lekkarimaki since his value his high) San Jose would have to take some of Granlunds salary

Granlund has speed and experience, Zetterlund has size and skill and speed. Would make for a fast line with skill and allow Puis Suter to move to the 4th line which makes Aman available as our extra which is a good spot for him. 

 

Pettersson Miller Boeser

Mikheyev Granlund Zetterlund

Joshua Blueger Garland

Hoglander Sutter Laferty

Aman 

 

Edited January 9 by Rypien-Punch

[Komodo0921]

On 1/7/2024 at 2:37 AM, CanuckMan said:

After the loss to the Blues, I called for Petterson to be moved to Millers wing because I think he’s better suited as a winger than a center. My reasoning might be shallow but it is my reasoning and we’re all entitled to our opinion. In my opinion Petey has face off troubles (doesn’t win enough). Also I believe he is a player that needs high calibre players around him to produce at his best. He has an inability to elevate players around him compared to some of the other top players around the league. He’s not at the same level as other centers in the league. I.e. you can play  plugs with Crosby/Mackinnon and they will produce - the same can’t be said about Petey. 
 

Now to be clear the purpose of this thread is not to bash Petey. He’s a star player no doubt and maybe one day becomes that player that carries his line on his back. But right now that player is Miller. 
 

Boeser-Miller-Petey is a proven line. A recipe for success. 

I feel the Canucks need to make 1 key move and they will instantly become contenders for the cup (right now I only consider them a playoff team). The Canucks need to find a way to acquire a proven 2nd line center. This player does not to be another Miller, but a Miller-lite. Anything better would just be gravy.

 

Boeser-Miller-Petey

Mikheyev-NEW GUY-Kuzmenko

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

Aman-Sutr-Lafferty

 

This is the one year I believe the Canucks should go all in. We have too many key UFA/RFA to sign this summer and will most likely lose some of our depth due to raises. 
 

I’m tired of 10 years of mediocre teams & play. If we can find someone to retain salary on a 2nd line center I would be ok with trading our 2024 1st round pick. It will be a low one anyway with the way the standings are shaping up and we will finish high. Would even go as far as making our 2025 1st round pick available or B/C level prospects. 
 

Our prospect pool is not so bare anymore and I think we could manage. I’m hoping for a Miller or Hronek type deal where it’s not just for a rental.

 

Thoughts/Opinions?

Constructive criticism is welcome.

 

One center I've had my eye on for a few seasons now, is Joel Eriksson Ek.

Don't have a clue about the price but, I think he'd be a pretty solid 2C.

[Komodo0921]

18 hours ago, Rypien-Punch said:

Joel Eriksson Ek from Minnesota would be a solid addition and he is the right age to grow with the team. Maybe package a trade with Brandon Duhaime for some bottom 6 grit. Both players are 26

 

Pettersson Miller Boeser

Mikheyev Eriksson Ek Hoglander

Joshua Blueger Garland 

Duhaime Suter Lafferty

Aman

 

Just added a post with Eriksson Ek as a target. Didn't know someone else had already mentioned him.

I think it would be a pretty hefty price tag though.