PGT - Canucks at Islanders - 01/09/24

[Tusk]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Everyone - fans and pundits - is debating right now what the Canucks should do at this year's TDL. This is a major positive. We're talking about being buyers to go for an actual legit chance at the cup this year.

MOST OF US THINK WE ARE A CUP CONTENDER THIS YEAR. So why do we buy when we have no cap? you want to sell someone or put them in LTIR?

What are you going to cripple someone to make BUY space?

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Everyone - fans and pundits - is debating right now what the Canucks should do at this year's TDL. This is a major positive. We're talking about being buyers to go for an actual legit chance at the cup this year.

 

Nothing major, imo.  I'd leave the d corp as is and if they want to leave the lotto line together, maybe a rental 2C

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, Jester13 said:

He gives solid reasoning all the time about why they're playing so much better, though, just like last year he was giving solid reasoning why they were a terrible team. I think it's more about fans not hearing him criticize - and rightly so - the team last year, but now that he is singing their praise this year - and rightly so - they can't handle it because they worked themselves up so much last year when they couldn't handle hearing the truth. Or, it's simply a case of some fans never listening to his show every day or reading his articles, but still having no problem crying about him every day.

 

Probably true. I don't really know because I really couldn't care less about podcasts and stuff as the content I get here keeps me busy enough all day.

 

Just way too much whining and complaining, and shit throwing in the past for me to really care or bother giving him a chance. I don't think I'm missing too much, the little excepts I get here and there certainly don't make me want to go listen to his interpretation of a spreadsheet.

 

Bottom line is I can't respect a guy who comes out of nowhere and treats the people and the team he's reporting on like dogshit. IMO being a non hockey background playing media graduate means you act humble, and considerate to the players and team that gives you a great opportunity to be part of that team and make a good living. Not be a scumbag and gleefully drive the knife in at every chance. You do that kind of thing after you've earned it, not before.

[Captkirk888]

I have read this whole Drance dogfight and the only thing I have to note is Jester’s egregious use of the word egregious.

That is all, carry on…..

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

MOST OF US THINK WE ARE A CUP CONTENDER THIS YEAR. So why do we buy when we have no cap? you want to sell someone or put them in LTIR?

What are you going to cripple someone to make BUY space?

Kuzy is underperforming, guys like Lindholm and Guentzel are on the market, we're stacking the Lotto line and making our lineup top heavy, etc. Imagine adding one of those guys for this year's run...

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Probably true. I don't really know because I really couldn't care less about podcasts and stuff as the content I get here keeps me busy enough all day.

 

Just way too much whining and complaining, and shit throwing in the past for me to really care or bother giving him a chance. I don't think I'm missing too much, the little excepts I get here and there certainly don't make me want to go listen to his interpretation of a spreadsheet.

 

Bottom line is I can't respect a guy who comes out of nowhere and treats the people and the team he's reporting on like dogshit. IMO being a non hockey background playing media graduate means you act humble, and considerate to the players and team that gives you a great opportunity to be part of that team and make a good living. Not be a scumbag and gleefully drive the knife in at every chance. You do that kind of thing after you've earned it, not before.

I appreciate you admitting that you don't listen to him, but if you did listen to him this year then you would change your opinion. 

2 minutes ago, Captkirk888 said:

I have read this whole Drance dogfight and the only thing I have to note is Jester’s egregious use of the word egregious.

That is all, carry on…..

Say what now? What's so egregious about my use of egregious?

[arsenalian]

17 hours ago, HKSR said:

Yeah they're actually not as far off as we think.  This current team is tops in Goals For and top 5 in Goals Against while battling it out for 1st OA in the league.  

Curious to see what the record comparison between the 2 teams is at the halfway point of the season, but no idea how to look up the 1/2 way point record for 2011 (not a stats guy). Seems to me this team may actually have a better record to this point as they’re breaking all these team records, number of games to reach 20

wins, etc. Of course it’s only the playoffs that matter now.

[kilgore]

8 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Another way to read between the lines is that Miller simply gave him a rib because the opportunity presented itself, but that that in no way leads to such a thing as Miller doesn't respect him or is sick of him or that him and the rest of the team thinks he's a goof. 

Drance goes by analytics and the eye test. He sings the Canucks praise all the time while expressing some hesitance in certain areas. What's so egregious about this? He's loving this season and how well they're doing, and he continues to give the players and team their due, such as after the last three games and calling them close to actually being elite contenders. How more positive can someone get, and what's so negative about this? 

 

Yeah, I think its funny how some fans go out of their way to demonize particular sports media guys.....for doing exactly what they are doing to him!   Everything is negative blah blah.....

 

Drance is Drance.  He's not a lovable character. His big fat round head. His gratingly annoying cackle, and his over the top confidence in what he's selling...some would call it arrogance.  But every person, every reporter, has their flaws.

I don't believe that analytics are as important as he seems to. But I also do appreciate hearing about how the team is fairing from that aspect. Balance it out with my own eye test.  He believes in it as his base evaluation of teams. So what?  He's not an evil person because of that. I'd call it more of an obsession for him.  But I can handle listening to him for short stints as much as any other pundit.  I like listening to every analyst's opinion of the team, just to get as many different perspectives as possible. Then I make my own evaluations. Its not about hating that one, and loving the other one.

 

I think some are still smarting here in that they realize he was probably right about a rebuild.....back when a rebuild was viable. In hindsight, I'm one who thinks Benning should have initiated a deep rebuild right when he got here. And I'm not the only fan. Drance, like a lot of media, and a lot of fans, could be called "negative" in their evaluation of the team in the last few years. Kind of predictable and honestly warranted by their play on the ice though.  Seems like some fans resent that he was right about that sooner than they were.  Drance is certainly not calling for a rebuild now of course.  He mines obscure stats and makes fans aware of perceived weaknesses of the team in certain areas.  I find it interesting but I don't base my overall opinion on those observations. But why not hear about them....even if its nitpicking? 

 

And the joke Miller made in the interview.  That's all it was.  A player saw an opportunity to get a dig in, at "the media" at their expense.  It could have been Murph, or any reporter who he knew on a professional level. Now i wouldn't doubt that he may have known Drance had been critical, maybe even against him in the past, and wanted to get a hit in.  But it was still a joke. He was just going for the laugh, at the expense of someone he knew could take it, and that others in the room would get a kick out of.  I loved it.  But that's all it was.

 

 

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Yeah, I think its funny how some fans go out of their way to demonize particular sports media guys.....for doing exactly what they are doing to him!   Everything is negative blah blah.....

 

Drance is Drance.  He's not a lovable character. His big fat round head. His gratingly annoying cackle, and his over the top confidence in what he's selling...some would call it arrogance.  But every person, every reporter, has their flaws.

I don't believe that analytics are as important as he seems to. But I also do appreciate hearing about how the team is fairing from that aspect. Balance it out with my own eye test.  He believes in it as his base evaluation of teams. So what?  He's not an evil person because of that. I'd call it more of an obsession for him.  But I can handle listening to him for short stints as much as any other pundit.  I like listening to every analyst's opinion of the team, just to get as many different perspectives as possible. Then I make my own evaluations. Its not about hating that one, and loving the other one.

 

I think some are still smarting here in that they realize he was probably right about a rebuild.....back when a rebuild was viable. In hindsight, I'm one who thinks Benning should have initiated a deep rebuild right when he got here. And I'm not the only fan. Drance, like a lot of media, and a lot of fans, could be called "negative" in their evaluation of the team in the last few years. Kind of predictable and honestly warranted by their play on the ice though.  Seems like some fans resent that he was right about that sooner than they were.  Drance is certainly not calling for a rebuild now of course.  He mines obscure stats and makes fans aware of perceived weaknesses of the team in certain areas.  I find it interesting but I don't base my overall opinion on those observations. But why not hear about them....even if its nitpicking? 

 

And the joke Miller made in the interview.  That's all it was.  A player saw an opportunity to get a dig in, at "the media" at their expense.  It could have been Murph, or any reporter who he knew on a professional level. Now i wouldn't doubt that he may have known Drance had been critical, maybe even against him in the past, and wanted to get a hit in.  But it was still a joke. He was just going for the laugh, at the expense of someone he knew could take it, and that others in the room would get a kick out of.  I loved it.  But that's all it was.

 

 

I appreciate your post. Thanks, for this 

[Gawdzukes]

6 minutes ago, Chon derry said:

There are ex players who use analytics and then there’s analytic geeks who only know analytics and rely on it only because that’s all they know and haven't played the game and have no understanding of the inner workings of the team game. His background is marketing. At this point he might as well stick with his schtick as it wouldn’t make Canuck followers take him any more serious if he did change and become more positive on a daily basis 

 

Yeah exactly. I think he would do equally well on a show like "Canada's/America's Top Chef, or something. He could make up some cute little spreadsheet's and really lay into folks for screwing up the recipe's and caving under pressure. I'm sure he has just as much experience there and I could really see him as a strong compliment to that Ramsey guy. Who has actually earned the right to be the ahole he is. At least he knows what he is talking about.

 

Like I alluded to in my other posts and you touch on it here too I have no problem with someone new to the game coming in (modern day reporting) and applying their writing talents and fresh take on the game, but you need to have some common courtesy and show respect to those that deserve it. He's done none of that and has just acted like a know it all ahole to some of the best players in the best league in the world. That's a non-starter for me. I couldn't care less if you're an ahole, I'm here for hockey, not douchery 101.

[EP Phone Home]

18 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Canuck Fan, start singing along!

 

 

A deal is a deal!  

[Tusk]

21 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Kuzy is underperforming, guys like Lindholm and Guentzel are on the market, we're stacking the Lotto line and making our lineup top heavy, etc. Imagine adding one of those guys for this year's run...

I appreciate you admitting that you don't listen to him, but if you did listen to him this year then you would change your opinion. 

Say what now? What's so egregious about my use of egregious?

I mean, people want a 2c FOR kuzy and mik. So if you lose kuzy what is the point? I love the lotto line, but Petey's best value will be with those two. ANYBODY can play with JT and Brock. We have lots of wingers in ABBY who can come up when playoffs start with no cap issue.

So if the Canucks are "buyers" i would hope its at the AHL level. Maybe get Cole Lind back.

[Jester13]

Arguably our biggest weakness right now is not having a single right-handed centre, and our faceoff percentage struggles. Elias Lindholm is right handed and second in the league for FO% with a cap hit of 4.85 this year. Kuzy++ might get it done for Calgary. Abby guys for the post-season won't put us over the top, but someone like EL very well could. 

 

Petey - Miller - Brock

Hogs - Lindholm - Mik

Joshua - Blueger - Garland

PDG - Suter - Laff

[Goal_thecup]

17 hours ago, hockeyfan-observer said:

I missed most of the game tonight

Name doesn't check out.

[Goal_thecup]

17 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Both players are going to command $3 million on the open market. Not sure we can afford both. 

Every body gets a paycut if they want to play for The Canucks.

"You get a paycut, and you get a paycut, and you get a paycut if you're god damned lucky."

[Tusk]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Arguably our biggest weakness right now is not having a single right-handed centre, and our faceoff percentage struggles. Elias Lindholm is right handed and second in the league for FO% with a cap hit of 4.85 this year. Kuzy++ might get it done for Calgary. Abby guys for the post-season won't put us over the top, but someone like EL very well could. 

 

Petey - Miller - Brock

Hogs - Lindholm - Mik

Joshua - Blueger - Garland

PDG - Suter - Laff

our biggest weakness is not understanding what a guy like Kuzy brings to the locker room and the team. And while youre at it, Garlund cause I know youre going there next.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

6 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Arguably our biggest weakness right now is not having a single right-handed centre, and our faceoff percentage struggles. Elias Lindholm is right handed and second in the league for FO% with a cap hit of 4.85 this year. Kuzy++ might get it done for Calgary. Abby guys for the post-season won't put us over the top, but someone like EL very well could. 

 

Petey - Miller - Brock

Hogs - Lindholm - Mik

Joshua - Blueger - Garland

PDG - Suter - Laff

 

As much as how great of an addition Lindholm would be, I don't think Calgary's ready to get fleeced by the same divisional rival twice in the same season 

[Goal_thecup]

17 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

 

My eyes are a little blurry.. when I started to read the first line, I slid past the start and thought I read "bunch of shits"!!

Must be talking about the Islanders..

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

our biggest weakness is not understanding what a guy like Kuzy brings to the locker room and the team. And while youre at it, Garlund cause I know youre going there next.

Wow. Are you triggered? Do you think I'm being negative because I mentioned Kuzy? (And, fwiw, I've been on Gnarly's side through all the trade talk with him.) 

[Tusk]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Wow. Are you triggered? Do you think I'm being negative because I mentioned Kuzy? (And, fwiw, I've been on Gnarly's side through all the trade talk with him.) 

I may be a little triggered because you sound like drance. But hockey players dont fit into spreadsheets, and Stanley cup teams might fit only after they won and pissed off all the pundits and analyitics.

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I may be a little triggered because you sound like drance. But hockey players dont fit into spreadsheets, and Stanley cup teams might fit only after they won and pissed off all the pundits and analyitics.

And how exactly is that that I sound like?

[HKSR]

44 minutes ago, arsenalian said:

Curious to see what the record comparison between the 2 teams is at the halfway point of the season, but no idea how to look up the 1/2 way point record for 2011 (not a stats guy). Seems to me this team may actually have a better record to this point as they’re breaking all these team records, number of games to reach 20

wins, etc. Of course it’s only the playoffs that matter now.

It's actually not too difficult to find.  It's all here:

 

2010-11:  https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2011_games.html

2023-24:  https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2024_games.html

 

2010-11:  At the 41 game mark, the Canucks were 27-8-6 so 60 points in 41 games.  Goals For: 141, Goals Against: 99 -- Goal Differential:  42

2023-24:  At the 41 game mark, the Canucks are 27-11-3 so 57 points in 41 games.  Goals For:  160, Goals Against: 107 -- Goal Differential:  53

 

Pretty darn close.  A difference of 3 OT losses, but a better goal differential.

[Mordekai]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It's actually not too difficult to find.  It's all here:

 

2010-11:  https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2011_games.html

2023-24:  https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2024_games.html

 

2010-11:  At the 41 game mark, the Canucks were 27-8-6 so 60 points in 41 games.  Goals For: 141, Goals Against: 99 -- Goal Differential:  42

2023-24:  At the 41 game mark, the Canucks are 27-11-3 so 57 points in 41 games.  Goals For:  160, Goals Against: 107 -- Goal Differential:  53

 

Pretty darn close.  A difference of 3 OT losses, but a better goal differential.

i didn't realize this season we are having such a good year that it is comparable to our best year. Amazing!

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Mordekai said:

i didn't realize this season we are having such a good year that it is comparable to our best year. Amazing!

Yeah I don't think a lot of people realize just how good the Canucks have been this season.  There is a real possibility of them going deep into the playoffs this year.  The only thing I assume would stand in their way is playoff experience... but who knows, anything can happen. 

 

What I am really excited about is that this window is just opening.  This group should have several cracks at the Cup before having to be dismantled a bit.  Usually it takes a few runs at it before finally winning the Cup, so this bodes well for this roster as Miller, Hughes, and Demko are all locked in for a few years.  Just need to get Petey and Hronek locked up and we've got a very solid core that has the potential to finally bring the Cup to Vancouver.

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, Mordekai said:

He was a bust until the right coaches got to work with him. 

Goes to show you how important coaches are not just x & o but player growth. 
This is the new canucks model since the new regime took over. Very similar to the old wings and pens model. Drafting and nurturing.

I have to add in here. I don’t like the word “bust” used for Juulsen. I don’t think most fans know he had a serious eye injury at the start of his nhl career in Montreal. He almost lost his vision in one eye.

 

This is a long road to recovery story more than a bust story with his development.

 

I think we are finally seeing what he was always supposed to be.

[Pure961089]

The rest of the month looks like an easy schedule when you get past the Pens and the Leafs.   It's Feb, March and April that will be the test.  But I can see the Canucks going 7-1 or 6-2 in their next 8 games easily.