PGT - Canucks at Islanders - 01/09/24

[Lemon Face]

29 minutes ago, Malibu said:

You would rather have Petey over Schieffle and 4 ist round picks. If Petey ends up a top 3 scorer, I might change my mind. You think he's a better player than JT and Quinn, I do not.

Petey is great talent.Or he score or he set up someone.Dont hate guy because Benning screw us and give him short contract for lack of money

[Lemon Face]

7 minutes ago, Bobby Lou said:

I think Quinn is the best of the bunch and JT and Petey are pretty close but Petey has a higher ceiling for sure.

 

Problem is QH43 is on a steal cap hit and so is JT. Make no mistake Quinn is getting paid when his contract is up and so is Petey. 

 

Miller didn't become a PPG player until 2019-2020 age 26.... EP40 has more or less done it since his arrival in the league when he won the Calder. 

Brother dont waste time.Guy is in forest and cant find a tree.Every great player will be paid.Simple.To get read of him because of money????Crazy

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

Thing is: no one has a perfect record in their takes or opinions, but it's the ones who can update their opinions when things change and/or they're shown something different who are commendable. 

 

What I find tiring is fans incessantly bashing him all while misrepresenting what his takes or opinions are. Points percentage was merely him pointing out that other teams had so many games in hand; PDO was merely him pointing out the history of teams with the same level of "lucky bounces" and that fans should prepare for some regression; last year, his take on fans thinking that just getting into the playoffs means we have a chance to win it all, when it takes much more than that; etc. etc. He has his warts like anyone does, but the level of vitriol thrown his way here and on social media is quite gross at times.

 

If the whole points % thing was 'merely' how many games other teams had in hand, he could've said that like most people do & have always done, rather than taking any mention of the Canucks place in the standings as a personal afront & going on a 2 week rant about "which team gets waiver priority" and all this other stuff. It just comes across as grasping. (And was worthless given one of those teams was LA, who's lost 6 straight)

 

I don't think hes one that seemlessly 'updates' his opinion/wrongs. This was not even a month ago. (19:55)

Spoiler

 

 

And there's no misrepresentation for me, just listen to this; 

 

Spoiler

 

 

"The overwhelming arrogance of this organization to assume that a new coach simply can change the stripes of (this) group...

 

I honestly am aghast at the idea that the organization...has committed once again to a group of players who continue to show us who they are. It is just one of the more preposterously arrogant pieces of team building I've ever seen in the NHL."

 

There's no subtlety there, and hey fine that's his brand. But this type of stuff can also be why people think Drance is a 'know it all' type. (Keep in mind this is a 3x cup winning HHOF GM he's talking about being 'overwhelmingly arrogant' here). I do respect the fact he goes hard & has takes, but you go hard at people with your takes (including fans) then that comes back around. Keep in mind he had alot of people with him last year when he was carving the team like this, and the people who didn't agree with the rebuild were the stupid ones... until this season where they've been proven right. 

 

I do agree completely on the vitriol, particularly the personal attacks are gross. This is hockey, he has passionate takes & he goes hard, others can have passionate counter takes, each side can dunk & respond or whatever, but the personal attacks shouldn't be part of it.

 

Like I said I do respect Drancer, but I understand why some people don't enjoy his brand (which is ultimately what he's selling) & I think he's brought some of it on himself. 

 

Edited January 11 by Smashian Kassian

[Bobby Lou]

Just now, Lemon Face said:

Brother dont waste time.Guy is in forest and cant find a tree.Every great player will be paid.Simple.To get read of him because of money????Crazy

I personally think Quinn is the best.. Miller is my favorite and both on steal deals.

 

Thing is EP40 Is a two way 100 point first line centre at just 25 years of age.  I have no problem with anything ideally under 11.25×5. 

 

Gives Petey another chance to cash in age 31. 

[Darius]

IMHO the market has always had media guys that were villain like.  Older guys (most in here haha) will remember guys like Neil McRae (RIP).  Hed come on the radio and I knew it would be a 2 minute rant by the blow hard.  Word was he didnt even go to the games.  WIth him it was more of a schtick, I had the sense he loved that persona and it was entertaining to an extent.

 

With these new "journalists" masquerading as statisticians I find that there is an sense of arrogance.  They come up with some xMyArse stat and lecture everyone on how the team will fail, or how its not being built correctly, or how they will supposedly come down to earth.  As if they know better. Players are algorithms and the human element in the game is glossed over.  Some of what they do come up with is interesting, but I hardly pay attention anymore.  I cant tell the difference between a JD Burke or a  Drance because they both sound condescending to me.

[PhillipBlunt]

Honestly though, the biggest steaming turd in hockey media is Greg Wyshynski. Absolute fucking clown 

Edited January 11 by PhillipBlunt

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

If the whole points % thing was 'merely' how many games other teams had in hand, he could've said that like most people do & have always done, rather than taking any mention of the Canucks place in the standings as a personal afront & going on a 2 week rant about "which team gets waiver priority" and all this other stuff. It just comes across as grasping. (And was worthless given one of those teams was LA, who's lost 6 straight)

 

I don't think hes one that seemlessly 'updates' his opinion/wrongs. This was not even a month ago. (19:55)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

And there's no misrepresentation for me, just listen to this; 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

"The overwhelming arrogance of this organization to assume that a new coach simply can change the stripes of (this) group...

 

I honestly am aghast at the idea that the organization...has committed once again to a group of players who continue to show us who they are. It is just one of the more preposterously arrogant pieces of team building I've ever seen in the NHL."

 

There's no subtlety there, and hey fine that's his brand. But this type of stuff can also be why people think Drance is a 'know it all' type. (Keep in mind this is a 3x cup winning HHOF GM he's talking about being 'overwhelmingly arrogant' here). I do respect the fact he goes hard & has takes, but you go hard at people with your takes (including fans) then that comes back around. Keep in mind he had alot of people with him last year when he was carving the team like this, and the people who didn't agree with the rebuild were the stupid ones... until this season where they've been proven right. 

 

I do agree completely on the vitriol, particularly the personal attacks are gross. This is hockey, he has passionate takes & he goes hard, others can have passionate counter takes, each side can dunk & respond or whatever, but the personal attacks have no place in it imo.

 

I do respect Drance as I said, but I understand why some people don't enjoy his brand (which is ultimately what he's selling) & I think he's brought some of it on himself imo. 

 

Honest aghast? What an absolute ponce. 

[coolboarder]

1 hour ago, Dom said:

Not really sure where else to put this, but just realized we play at 1 pm eastern on Monday. Gross. 

That is ok, at least they'd be home and in their own bed at end of the day after the game rather than a late start and be home at red eye flight and be so tired for their first game back home.  I'd rather them being rested fully than a half rested even 2 days off.    

[Lemon Face]

1 minute ago, Bobby Lou said:

I personally think Quinn is the best.. Miller is my favorite and both on steal deals.

 

Thing is EP40 Is a two way 100 point first line centre at just 25 years of age.  I have no problem with anything ideally under 11.25×5. 

 

Gives Petey another chance to cash in age 31. 

I dont mind talking about who is better player.Problem is that you work hard to find talent.And someone want to trade him.Like there is line up of petey around corner and want to play for small money

[Smashian Kassian]

24 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Lots of good players in the late 1st and 2nd round. Pastrnak was 25th overall.

 

Anyways, I would move the 1st, Kuzmenko, + for Lindholm. Only if he signs with the team. In the end, I’m open to trading the pick. Just don’t want to trade the 1st for a guy who’s only going to be on the team for half a season and the playoffs.

 

2nd line - Mikheyev - Lindholm - Perry. That’s a good line for playoff hockey?

 

thats fair.

 

I think the big thing is moving the money to make a swing. And the big X factor is Kuzmenko. Can they move him straight up for a better fitting player/rental? Can they get picks for him they could flip? If they get his $$$ off the books next season it opens the door to add salary.

[Smashian Kassian]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Honest aghast? What an absolute ponce. 

 

Its really an incredible set of quotes.

 

'To think a coaching change could turn things around is preposterous, the core just isn't good enough, and the management is arrogant for thinking so.'

 

Completely wrong on all 3, and not without some arrogance (ironically). Nothing misrepresented or wrong about pointing that out.

 

 

[coolboarder]

4 minutes ago, Bobby Lou said:

I personally think Quinn is the best.. Miller is my favorite and both on steal deals.

 

Thing is EP40 Is a two way 100 point first line centre at just 25 years of age.  I have no problem with anything ideally under 11.25×5. 

 

Gives Petey another chance to cash in age 31. 

He is playing smart, he knows that cap will go way up and max could have been 16 million dollars AAV when the cap goes up even further in 5 more years.  We all never dreamed about 83.5 cap just 10 years ago.   Watch for shorter contract and high AAV for many superstars pretty soon so that they get their max contract.  If Miller signed for long term 8 million, how much do you think he would have been worth in today's market if he was a free agent this year?  I think he'd command 11.25 million with the way he is playing.  So this strategy of long term contract will soon be a thing of a past. I am afraid.  Players are not that stupid.  The only reason they secure a long term is because they were afraid of declining stats and getting fewer dollars if they got injured.  Risky business unless they're confident that they'd get max contract.

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Its really an incredible set of quotes.

 

'To think a coaching change could turn things around is preposterous, the core just isn't good enough, and the management is arrogant for thinking so.'

 

Completely wrong on all 3, and not without some arrogance (ironically). Nothing misrepresented or wrong about pointing that out.

 

 

 

This should be pinned at the top of the media thread. Every wrong media prediction ... then we'd be getting somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Dr. Crossbar

[NewbieCanuckFan]

25 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Honestly though, the biggest steaming turd in hockey media is Greg Wyshynski. Absolute fucking clown 

He's dog manure.

 

Chicken manure:

 

[Malibu]

48 minutes ago, EagleEye said:

Boone Jenner

 

6'2  210  High Character player  3,500,000 Hit

 

Center/ Wing 

 

Just have to make an offer they can't refuse.

 

 

Should have been ours but we took Niklas Jensen instead.

[Silent Man]

38 minutes ago, Darius said:

IMHO the market has always had media guys that were villain like.  Older guys (most in here haha) will remember guys like Neil McRae (RIP).  Hed come on the radio and I knew it would be a 2 minute rant by the blow hard.  Word was he didnt even go to the games.  WIth him it was more of a schtick, I had the sense he loved that persona and it was entertaining to an extent.

 

With these new "journalists" masquerading as statisticians I find that there is an sense of arrogance.  They come up with some xMyArse stat and lecture everyone on how the team will fail, or how its not being built correctly, or how they will supposedly come down to earth.  As if they know better. Players are algorithms and the human element in the game is glossed over.  Some of what they do come up with is interesting, but I hardly pay attention anymore.  I cant tell the difference between a JD Burke or a  Drance because they both sound condescending to me.

On, Neil and his legendary phone conversation with Burke on air!

It was priceless. And I think that Burke’s famous saying, something like : »This business is full to the rims with low lives and scum begs and these beggars scrued it up for everybody else » was directed to Neil.

[Rusty Shackleford]

3 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Everyone, even Drance, had this team as a bubble playoff team. They've surprised everyone, even Drance. The level of hate for him is based in negative bias towards him for saying anything critical about the team of the past. If I'm so off base, why can others see what I see and be level-headed about it whereas the haters continue to dig their heels in and cry the same platitudes as before? 

 

Ok Thomas.  

[Jester13]

42 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

If the whole points % thing was 'merely' how many games other teams had in hand, he could've said that like most people do & have always done, rather than taking any mention of the Canucks place in the standings as a personal afront & going on a 2 week rant about "which team gets waiver priority" and all this other stuff. It just comes across as grasping. (And was worthless given one of those teams was LA, who's lost 6 straight)

 

I don't think hes one that seemlessly 'updates' his opinion/wrongs. This was not even a month ago. (19:55)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He kept up his point with point percentage because he was getting attacked on social media by fans (and his good friend Rick) for taking what he was saying the wrong way. He even mentions in that clip, "when did point percentage become positive or negative?" These guys rip on each other all the time. 

 

42 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

And there's no misrepresentation for me, just listen to this; 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

"The overwhelming arrogance of this organization to assume that a new coach simply can change the stripes of (this) group...

 

I honestly am aghast at the idea that the organization...has committed once again to a group of players who continue to show us who they are. It is just one of the more preposterously arrogant pieces of team building I've ever seen in the NHL."

 

There's no subtlety there, and hey fine that's his brand. But this type of stuff can also be why people think Drance is a 'know it all' type. (Keep in mind this is a 3x cup winning HHOF GM he's talking about being 'overwhelmingly arrogant' here). I do respect the fact he goes hard & has takes, but you go hard at people with your takes (including fans) then that comes back around. Keep in mind he had alot of people with him last year when he was carving the team like this, and the people who didn't agree with the rebuild were the stupid ones... until this season where they've been proven right. 

 

I do agree completely on the vitriol, particularly the personal attacks are gross. This is hockey, he has passionate takes & he goes hard, others can have passionate counter takes, each side can dunk & respond or whatever, but the personal attacks shouldn't be part of it.

 

Like I said I do respect Drancer, but I understand why some people don't enjoy his brand (which is ultimately what he's selling) & I think he's brought some of it on himself. 

 

I appreciate you providing an example of where one of Drance's takes was completely bogus. That's one more than anyone else has been able to do and defend. It's true that he has his schtick and it rubs some fans the wrong way, but at least he admits when he's wrong and gives JR and management their due now that the team has proven him wrong. Were he to stand by comments/takes like that, I certainly wouldn't appreciate his analysis and takes as much as I often do. He doesn't have a 100% success rate with what he says, but it's hardly reason for fans to throw such vitriol his way as they often do. He was especially fiery last year because of how the season went and he was team tank, and to an extent, rightly so. We've been in a dark decade, and after the Boudreau situation there wasn't much faith in Allvin & Co. Lo-and-behold, it turns out that we're experiencing a Cinderella turnaround this season, and even Drance has eaten some crow on air.

 

I've been coming around on Drancer for a while now, as his schtick is pretty unique and adds some interesting narratives to our team story. And when I saw how giddy he was at training camp this year, I fully realized just how much he loves this team and the game of hockey. He's the nerdy friend you both love and hate but will always go to bat for. The last thing ill say.on this is that just like Miller and DeSmith and so many others mature with time, so, too, has Drancer this past year, and he's able to laugh at himself and own up to his mistakes and continue to evolve. Cicero said it right: "Any man is liable to err, only a fool persists in error." 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

That's why this "We need to go all in" talk to me is wrong. It just means more players that are useful and already doing great will go somewhere else.

If Calgary is crazy enough to trade Lindholm, and at a reasonable amount. And he's willing to sign an extension, I'm all in favour of that.

 

Yeah I don't want to sell the farm but I'm down for a reasonable trade. I think they'll be  working pretty hard to get something done, with our first being on the table. I'd definitely be in on Lindholm but I doubt that happens. The cost would be significant.

[Goal_thecup]

8 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

its would cost us Lekkerimaki for sure, too as they'd be taking salary back.

 

If there was a really good extension in there it might be worth it. 

No way are the getting our Yutes.

This year's team is a lot of fun but our yutes are our future.

[Johnny]

1 hour ago, Bobby Lou said:

I personally think Quinn is the best.. Miller is my favorite and both on steal deals.

 

Thing is EP40 Is a two way 100 point first line centre at just 25 years of age.  I have no problem with anything ideally under 11.25×5. 

 

Gives Petey another chance to cash in age 31. 

The problem with shorter term is they dont take advantage of the diminishing cap percentage and allows the player to keep his pay as high as possible. See Matthews and the leafs

 

We want to sign Petey for 8 years

[Tusk]

7 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

No way are the getting our Yutes.

This year's team is a lot of fun but our yutes are our future.

We might lose a few games in a 7 game series but we already have what we need. if we can get deeper in Abby that will help, for injuries and such that we cannot predict but at least we dont have to give away anyone for CAP

[CanuckMan]

4 hours ago, Malibu said:

In the playoffs hits matter when you play the same guy the next day so yeah, let's keep them both.

For the first time since we had Ehrhoff, Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Salo, etc we finally have defence depth and people are ready to tear it apart. Unless we find a replacement for Myers internally from the farm team or through a trade or free agent signing we should keep him even after this season. If we get another top 4 dman then we should be discussing moving him or not re-signing. 

[CanucksJay]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:14 PM, 27 Percent said:

Is this team better than 2011?

I honestly think it is. 

We don't need to dress scrubs like Oreskovich, Volpatti, Glass etc. 

Rome is a poor man's Juulsen who is our 7D

I liked Malhotra in the dot but Bleuger brings more offense and our 3rd line is better. 

All we are missing (if we go with the lotto line) is an awesome 2C like Kesler. 

 

Hughes > everyone 

 

We have a deeper team this year where the quality doesn't fall off the cliff after the 2nd line. 

 

2011 team relied too much on the Sedins and the PP. As soon as the whistle went away, they were screwed because no one else could produce. 

 

The fact that our 3rd line carried us for a while is saying something. And then now we have Hogz on the 4th line playing like a 2nd liner. 

 

We have a deep team with every line being a threat to score

 

Edited January 11 by CanucksJay

[-dlc-]

11 hours ago, Googlie said:

 

Yeah - but next day on Donny & Dhali, Rick said that Drance and JT were good friends, so Miller felt comfortable ribbing him.  Nothing malicious or "putting him in his place " about it

Of course, they're trying ot play it down because Drance is supposed to be an insider...optics.

 

JT turned from him and cut the conversation off and it seemed more sarcastic than ribbing between friends. I'd believe it if JT said they were friends....I highly doubt JT respects the trashing Drance has done of him and the team in the past. More likely he "tolerates" him like the rest of us are forced to do.

 

But I don't care enough about Drance to argue further one way or another....drama. Drance is eating some crow right now and deserves every second of that...however it's spun.