The Canucks might have a bigger need for a #3 calibre defenseman than they do for a 2nd line Center

[The Duke]

Speaking of Hanifin, kind of wild that Myers is only 5 points behind the guy this year. 
 

We’re getting Peak Giraffe this season.

[Jeremy Hronek]

7 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

If a team targets Hughes and does something to take him out of the series, I would 100 percent be ok if we did the same to 2-3 of their most valuable players because that's what Hughes is worth to us. 

But yes, I would love an upgrade at 3D

After Hughes and Hronek, I would rank the defense

Soucy

Cole

Zadorov 

Myers

Juulsen

 

That's still pretty darn good

Can't believe how well management transformed this group

You hit the nail on the head. 
 

For me, as far as resistance to injuries go, the Canucks are pretty well covered for the most part.  
 

-One of Kuzmenko or Mikheyev can take Boeser’s spot on the lotto line if Boeser goes down.

-Suter could play on the Garland line, in any position, if someone from that line got hurt.

-Hoglander could fill on any winged position outside of the top line.

-Raty or Podkolzin will be than capable of filling in incase of injuries as well.

 

On defense, any one of Cole, Soucy, Zadorov, or Myers can ride shotgun on a 2nd pairing defense, and wouldn’t look out of place playing alongside Hughes or Hronek on a top pairing.

 

Now - having said the above, there is a HUGE difference between “not looking out of place” and “continuing to be elite.”

 

For example, up front, 

-Pettersson-Miller-Kuzmenko/Mikheyev

-Kuzmenko/Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

-Kuzmenko/Mikheyev-Miller-Boeser

 

Would still likely be capable of “tilting the ice” incase one of our big three forwards got injured.

 

In net, DeSmith has shown that he’s more than capable of stepping up with Demko went down.

 

On defense however, this team would be significantly impacted if Hughes went down with injury.

 

Canucks would be in trouble if any combination of

 

Soucy-Hronek

Cole-Hronek

Zadorov-Hronek

 

Was your contignency top pairing.

 

Hence, why I like the idea of getting a true #3 calibre guy like Chychrun, Tanev, etc.

 

Chychrun-Hronek

Tanev-Hronek

 

while not ideal, would still be considered a pretty good top pairing. 
 

So, that’s why I’d prefer to get a #3 dman as opposed to a 2nd line C.  Even though our 2nd line could be much better, we are still getting consistent secondary scoring from our bottom 6.

[IBatch]

On 1/12/2024 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

Agree that Cole might not be a #5, but he’s a #4 at best.  On a good team, he’s not going to be your best defenseman on a 2nd pairing (a #3), and he shouldn’t be anywhere near the top pairing (#2).  The ultimate point that I’m making, with regards to our defense, is that there’s too big of a talent gap between Hronek and our 3rd best d-man………to the point where no one outside of Hughes and Hronek would be worthy of being on our top pairing while keeping that top pairing at an elite level.

This may be true, but the same goes with most other teams that are fortunate to have a Makar, Fox, Heiskenan, Dahlin, Hedman ei the cream or elite talent.    Second up is often at or around or close to Hronek level.    And doubt Hronek would keep it at an elite level, just very good.   Like Toews prior to his trade, McDonagh while in TB.     Then you have teams like NJ, CAR and CAL (not as much this year but we all seem to want their guys for a good reason too).   Who have a glut of good to solid D's.  

 

Soucy is better than he's probably going to get credit for (yet).    Hronek couldn't possibly make our power play worse then it's been the past month or so ... 

Edited January 15 by IBatch

[iinatcc]

Or maybe a 2nd line center that is defensively responsible? It should offset somewhat what the team is lacking on D. 

 

I think this was the rationale why the Leafs acquired O'Reilly. At least from what I've read 

[spook007]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:41 PM, The Duke said:

Speaking of Hanifin, kind of wild that Myers is only 5 points behind the guy this year. 
 

We’re getting Peak Giraffe this season.

Contract year.....

[spook007]

On 1/12/2024 at 5:34 PM, DixonWard said:

If we add at the deadline, great, but this is the best team we have had in a long time and we have guys in Abby champing at the bit.  Bains, Podz, Irwin, Karlsson, Woo, Wolanin could all play in the NHL.  We have 4 players in the top 20 scorers.  2 of the top 6 scoring dmen.  Even Tyler Myers is tied with Cam Fowler at 18 pts and is top 10 amongst dmen at +15.  Dakota Joshua has 1 more point in the same number of games as Matty Beniers.  Sam Lafferty is tied with Jesperi Kotkaniemi. In points per game, Teddy Bluegar is .61, Joel Eriksson Ek is .68, and Sean Monahan is .59 (two players we are rumoured to want as 2nd line center).  

 

As a team we have scored the most goals in the league.  We have allowed the 4th lowest.  

 

Since training camp we have added DeSmith, Lafferty, Zadorov, Friedman.  We have also dumped the salaries of Beauvilier and Pearson without giving up significant draft capital.  In the summer we added Soucy, Cole, Bluegar, Suter, and, essentially, Hronek.

 

I am having so much fun as a Canuck fan watching the games, I don't care if they do anything at the deadline at this point, I think the depth, quality, and attitude of the players we got will be fun to watch in the playoffs without selling off our future for 1 more forward or d.  I do trust the current administration to know what they are doing, however.

This times 100.... Great post. 
Best part is, the core is not at top of their careers bar one... 

This team has the potential to be relevant for the next 6-7 years at least.
Don't rob Peter to pay Paul...

An add would be nice, but do not give up our entire future for very little extra. 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

This may be true, but the same goes with most other teams that are fortunate to have a Makar, Fox, Heiskenan, Dahlin, Hedman ei the cream or elite talent.    Second up is often at or around or close to Hronek level.    And doubt Hronek would keep it at an elite level, just very good.   Like Toews prior to his trade, McDonagh while in TB.     Then you have teams like NJ, CAR and CAL (not as much this year but we all seem to want their guys for a good reason too).   Who have a glut of good to solid D's.  

 

Soucy is better than he's probably going to get credit for (yet).    Hronek couldn't possibly make our power play worse then it's been the past month or so ... 

Dahlin should not be included in a list with the league’s elite D. Slow thinker. Dough head. He’s a puck sucker. Hronek is a far superior player to Dahlin. 

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Dahlin should not be included in a list with the league’s elite D. Slow thinker. Dough head. He’s a puck sucker. Hronek is a far superior player to Dahlin. 

Going with the recent group of young guys.  Dahlin had his moments last year, the first half was blazing hot.   He's still a kid in defenseman years.   Took Lidstrom another 3-4 years to find his footing. 

[Alflives]

Just now, IBatch said:

Going with the recent group of young guys.  Dahlin had his moments last year, the first half was blazing hot.   He's still a kid in defenseman years.   Took Lidstrom another 3-4 years to find his footing. 

Na. Dahlin is a dough head puck sucker drama boy. Hronek is 26. He’s the far superior (young too) player. 

[Sativika]

Chris Tanev and Boone Jenner.................DONE!  Perhaps throw in Crouse or Greenway too!

 

Yea. I know.....In yer dreams, bud!

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Na. Dahlin is a dough head puck sucker drama boy. Hronek is 26. He’s the far superior (young too) player. 

Miller sure made him look like a fawn last game. 

[Alflives]

Just now, IBatch said:

Miller sure made him look like a fawn last game. 

It’s the reaction Dahlin had after the hit. He put on a huge drama boy show. Then his interview after the game all he did was whine about head shots and didn’t take any responsibility for his own poor play. Dough head, drama boy, puck sucker, who is one of those “entitled” guys. Sabres win nothing with that guy as their leader. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s the reaction Dahlin had after the hit. He put on a huge drama boy show. Then his interview after the game all he did was whine about head shots and didn’t take any responsibility for his own poor play. Dough head, drama boy, puck sucker, who is one of those “entitled” guys. Sabres win nothing with that guy as their leader. 

Games not the same.   Instead of owning it "should have kept my head up" .   Cherry called it "trolley tracking",  Miller threw a very concise hit, look at how he protected the ref who was absolutely in the way.   Two refs today are simply ridiculous without a redline.   Let a linesman make a call if it's a possible major, and let the video replay, help him do it.   The ref knew he was in the way, and knew that Miller did everything in his power, not to hit him with his body or his stick.   Was a smart hockey play by Miller too, seeing the ref in the way blocking Dahlin, and Dahlin using the ref as a pick really, so he felt safe.   Ref was the issue in this play.   Two refs - not a fan,  just as many bad calls and missed calls.  

Edited January 15 by IBatch

[Morrissex95]

If we brought in another D, one of our top 6 guys would have to be injured. We can't carry 7 defensemen making more than $2M+ 

 

Logically, Sean Monahan as 2C would be a great pickup. He probably cost Raty + a 2nd and he'd be easier to re-up in the offseason than a guy like E. Lindholm, who could cost $7M+

 

Locking up Monahan could cost from $2.5M - $4.5M just guessing off the top of my head. To me, for a 2C, that's a pretty good deal. Monahan was drafted the same year as Bo Horvat as well, which makes him a formidable permanent replacement after acquiring Hronek last season. 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Morrissex95 said:

If we brought in another D, one of our top 6 guys would have to be injured. We can't carry 7 defensemen making more than $2M+ 

 

Logically, Sean Monahan as 2C would be a great pickup. He probably cost Raty + a 2nd and he'd be easier to re-up in the offseason than a guy like E. Lindholm, who could cost $7M+

 

Locking up Monahan could cost from $2.5M - $4.5M just guessing off the top of my head. To me, for a 2C, that's a pretty good deal. Monahan was drafted the same year as Bo Horvat as well, which makes him a formidable permanent replacement after acquiring Hronek last season. 

 

 

 

Allvin and JR are too smart to have any interest in Monnohands. 

[Tusk]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

There is zero chance JR/Allvin trade those assets. 

 

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Allvin and JR are too smart to have any interest in Monnohands. 

Maybe Islanders retain %50 on fat wallet Horvat to come back for Rati and a few picks and a cole. thats a nice long contract.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Tusk said:

 

Maybe Islanders retain %50 on fat wallet Horvat to come back for Rati and a few picks and a cole. thats a nice long contract.

Islanders are falling fast. Will miss the playoffs. “Tell you that for free!” 

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Islanders are falling fast. Will miss the playoffs. “Tell you that for free!” 

 

Bo is having a decent year, ppg on pace for over 30 goals. And yet that team is still middling.

 

Maybe it's as Bieksa says, fun to play against?

[Artemus]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Games not the same.   Instead of owning it "should have kept my head up" .   Cherry called it "trolley tracking",  Miller threw a very concise hit, look at how he protected the ref who was absolutely in the way.   Two refs today are simply ridiculous without a redline.   Let a linesman make a call if it's a possible major, and let the video replay, help him do it.   The ref knew he was in the way, and knew that Miller did everything in his power, not to hit him with his body or his stick.   Was a smart hockey play by Miller too, seeing the ref in the way blocking Dahlin, and Dahlin using the ref as a pick really, so he felt safe.   Ref was the issue in this play.   Two refs - not a fan,  just as many bad calls and missed calls.  

 

The two referees.....also not a fan.

More often than not the deep referee impacts the game. Either gets in the way of players or blocks passes.

The game is now too fast, the players larger. There is really not enough room out there to properly encompass a non player in the vicinity of intense action such as the corners and behind the net.

One solution would be to go to the hybrid rink size, though the second referee would still continue to impact the game from being in the way, just not quite as much.

My suggestion.....get rid of the second referee and go to the hybrid rink size (5' wider). Maybe expand the role of the linesmen to call major penalties. These can be reviewed and altered, if necessary.

Edited January 15 by Artemus

[Alflives]

39 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Bo is having a decent year, ppg on pace for over 30 goals. And yet that team is still middling.

 

Maybe it's as Bieksa says, fun to play against?

Yup. A successful season needs to include winning. Bo is a points chaser. His numbers will normalize when he is forced to play the right way. Right now he’s cheating the game, again. 

[Artemus]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. A successful season needs to include winning. Bo is a points chaser. His numbers will normalize when he is forced to play the right way. Right now he’s cheating the game, again. 

 

Agree Alf that a successful season needs to include a winning record. This is a truism. 

 

Bo is a good hockey player. The multiple seasons with significant goal and point totals and the all situation usage would strongly allude to this.

Not Horvat's fault that he got the Islander's version of the "Benning Contract". A million too much and a year too long. Just glad he didn't get it here in Vancouver.

The issue with BH and his role with the Canucks, as I saw it, was that Bo was a good hockey player and a nice guy on the ice. A team will not win with a preponderance of nice guys on it, even if they are all good hockey players. As Bieksa said....."Some teams are FUN to play against".

 

There are a number of terms used to identify the type of player that a team must have to be successful in the tough slogging. Culture Carriers, Alphas, Players that will do whatever it takes to win. Personally, I have started thinking of the type of player that you need to win with, as a "Boss". Someone that will put the team on his back and will carry, push or pull them to a win. Miller is such a player. Other "Bosses" would include such legendary leaders as Jarome Iginla, Trevor Linden, Bobby Clark and Mark Messier, though Messier was more of a "Bitch" than a "Boss" when he played for the Canucks. More importantly, BH was not this type of leader for us.

 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Miller sure made him look like a fawn last game. 

Miller is our Iginla.... He is irreplaceable in this sort of form...

Talk about leading from the front... 

[tas]

[Sativika]

32 minutes ago, tas said:

Truly recognizable. Like these guys...........................

[Ballisticsports]

2 hours ago, Artemus said:

 

The two referees.....also not a fan.

More often than not the deep referee impacts the game. Either gets in the way of players or blocks passes.

The game is now too fast, the players larger. There is really not enough room out there to properly encompass a non player in the vicinity of intense action such as the corners and behind the net.

One solution would be to go to the hybrid rink size, though the second referee would still continue to impact the game from being in the way, just not quite as much.

My suggestion.....get rid of the second referee and go to the hybrid rink size (5' wider). Maybe expand the role of the linesmen to call major penalties. These can be reviewed and altered, if necessary.

Now that they created the 2nd ref, the union won't allow it

Perhaps take one Ref off the ice, to view and call from a fans perspective up  above ice level and help what was missed at ice level (They could be communicating on bluetooth)