Q&A with Canucks GM Patrik Allvin

[Goalie29]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm less worried about him walking. More worried about how waiting to sign the biggest contract in Canucks history is forcing ALL other actions (trades, UFA's, re-signing other players etc.) on hold and handcuffing management.

 

It comes with the territory.

 

I guess I am mostly trying to say that since we don't really know what's happening behind closed doors, it's wrong to point fingers.  Maybe the Canucks' offer was well below market value.  Does that make Petey greedy?  I don't think so.  Either way, we just don't know.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 minute ago, Goalie29 said:

 

It comes with the territory.

 

I guess I am mostly trying to say that since we don't really know what's happening behind closed doors, it's wrong to point fingers.  Maybe the Canucks' offer was well below market value.  Does that make Petey greedy?  I don't think so.  Either way, we just don't know.

 

[LillStrimma]

13 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm less worried about him walking. More worried about how waiting to sign the biggest contract in Canucks history is forcing ALL other actions (trades, UFA's, re-signing other players etc.) on hold and handcuffing management.

Why can’t Allvin do the other actions? 
If Petey and him agree on thedollar but there are tweeks regarding conditions, why would that stop anything? 

Allvin can sign whatever contract he wants.

[JayDangles]

3 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Why can’t Allvin do the other actions? 
If Petey and him agree on thedollar but there are tweeks regarding conditions, why would that stop anything? 

Allvin can sign whatever contract he wants.

Because there's an order to things. Allvin needs to know what Petey is costing for the next 8 years. Until a contract is officially signed that number could be $10.5m, $11.2m, $12.5m who knows. A gentleman's agreement doesnt work in this scenario.

 The worst thing Allvin can do is sign a bunch of our UFA's expecting Petey to sign for $11m, then Petey decides he wants $12.5 and Allvin has no room to fit that into the Cap.

Unless Allvin can find a deal that ensures we are moving more salary out than in, he pretty much has to wait for Petey.

 

[DeltaSwede]

1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

especially when the speculation is a veiled attack on a player's character.

 

That's exactly it. 

I'll never understand how people are able to judge someone or a situation so hard based on nothing but their own speculation. 

[DeltaSwede]

34 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Because there's an order to things. Allvin needs to know what Petey is costing for the next 8 years. Until a contract is officially signed that number could be $10.5m, $11.2m, $12.5m who knows. A gentleman's agreement doesnt work in this scenario.

 The worst thing Allvin can do is sign a bunch of our UFA's expecting Petey to sign for $11m, then Petey decides he wants $12.5 and Allvin has no room to fit that into the Cap.

Unless Allvin can find a deal that ensures we are moving more salary out than in, he pretty much has to wait for Petey.

 

Or Allvin just works under the premise that Petey is getting 13 mil or whatever the number is that the Canucks won't go over. The contract doesn't need to be signed for it to be functional in planning next years roster or for other moves to be made.  

I guess I just don't see the need to look at this situation and to see it as problematic as you

 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Well, thats not entirely true. We do know that Allvin has stated publicly that he wants to get a deal done. We do know, as reported by Ian MacIntyre, that Petey and his agent have chosen not to engage in contract discussions at this time. So we know that its Petey's camp thats choosing to stall/not engage. So it's not our imagination or speculation that Petey is making a conscious choice not to come to the table. We also know that Petey also held out for weeks and missed training camp during his last contract negotiations. So there's a history here.

 

He says he wants to play for a winning team. Never said he wants to play for the canucks. So yeah, I'll come out and say it... I'm sure Petey is a great guy, loves his family, loves his teammates, loves hockey, but I do question his character and commitment to this team. Questioning someones character doesn't slander them or degrade him, it simply means that his actions have led me to question his motives and whats important to him. If whats important doesnt align with the team, then dragging this on and hurting the team is a fair reason to question his character.

 

 

 

 

This is exactly it, "what we do know". People say and do things which show their intentions unless they are lying. Its not rocket science. 

If Petey truly wants to stay here and play on a winning team, he would have signed by now. 

We have players on this team that did do that, including Demko, Miller and Hughes.

Petey is STALLING and he is not doing it because the team is not very good, he is not doing because the team is losing, so why is he doing it? 

It boils down to a few options of which, not wanting to stay here, or wanting more money, are two very viable options that may be in play here.

 

[JayDangles]

7 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

This is exactly it, "what we do know". People say and do things which show their intentions unless they are lying. Its not rocket science. 

If Petey truly wants to stay here and play on a winning team, he would have signed by now. 

We have players on this team that did do that, including Demko, Miller and Hughes.

Petey is STALLING and he is not doing it because the team is not very good, he is not doing because the team is losing, so why is he doing it? 

It boils down to a few options of which, not wanting to stay here, or wanting more money, are two very viable options that may be in play here.

 

Ive said since the start of the year, Petey is giving off vibes that he doesn't intend on signing with Vancouver long term. I'm happy to be wrong, but he doesn't speak like a guy who plans on spending his career in Vancouver.

[JayDangles]

13 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

Or Allvin just works under the premise that Petey is getting 13 mil or whatever the number is that the Canucks won't go over. The contract doesn't need to be signed for it to be functional in planning next years roster or for other moves to be made.  

I guess I just don't see the need to look at this situation and to see it as problematic as you

 

Thats not how GM's work. Every deal they make is counted down to the penny. if they "set aside" 13m, then you can bet Petey's agent will ask for $13m. If he ends up signing for $11.5, then that extra $1.5m could have been used for something else and was wasted keeping it on hold.

 

This management team has shown they are capable of making amazing deals that have been all positive (moving Bo, adding Hronek, moving Beau, adding Z, Blueger, Suter etc). With Petey's contract still up in the air, we are effectively hamstringing the best GM and support team we have had in a long time, right at a time where 1 or 2 more moves might put us over the edge.

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Thats not how GM's work. Every deal they make is counted down to the penny. if they "set aside" 13m, then you can bet Petey's agent will ask for $13m. If he ends up signing for $11.5, then that extra $1.5m could have been used for something else and was wasted keeping it on hold.

 

This management team has shown they are capable of making amazing deals that have been all positive (moving Bo, adding Hronek, moving Beau, adding Z, Blueger, Suter etc). With Petey's contract still up in the air, we are effectively hamstringing the best GM and support team we have had in a long time, right at a time where 1 or 2 more moves might put us over the edge.

 

 

GMs worth their weight in gold don't operate sequentially - ie. this must happen before I move onto the next item.

With the management team he has in place, I'm pretty sure they've got a number of different scenarios worked out that would guide them in their subsequent actions based on analyses they've done in case different $$$ amounts are signed between pending (R/U)FA players and the team, including different contractual structure options.

 

I really don't think there's much hamstringing going on with GMPA, and if there is, he needs to learn to trust his management team's analytical abilities more so that he has more scenarios to plan around.

[LillStrimma]

2 hours ago, JayDangles said:

Because there's an order to things. Allvin needs to know what Petey is costing for the next 8 years. Until a contract is officially signed that number could be $10.5m, $11.2m, $12.5m who knows. A gentleman's agreement doesnt work in this scenario.

 The worst thing Allvin can do is sign a bunch of our UFA's expecting Petey to sign for $11m, then Petey decides he wants $12.5 and Allvin has no room to fit that into the Cap.

Unless Allvin can find a deal that ensures we are moving more salary out than in, he pretty much has to wait for Petey.

 

It will be around 12. So Allvin can sign others before.

Do you believe Petey will get over 13, close to 14, then Allvin might get cautious. 
But 12 or 12,5… What difference does that make regarding the others?

 

Forget anything lower than 11,5… It’s just ridiculus to say anything lower.

12 mill with Petey is club friendly and some fans here don’t get it.

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

GMs worth their weight in gold don't operate sequentially - ie. this must happen before I move onto the next item.

With the management team he has in place, I'm pretty sure they've got a number of different scenarios worked out that would guide them in their subsequent actions based on analyses they've done in case different $$$ amounts are signed between pending (R/U)FA players and the team, including different contractual structure options.

 

I really don't think there's much hamstringing going on with GMPA, and if there is, he needs to learn to trust his management team's analytical abilities more so that he has more scenarios to plan around.

I believe you have to repeat this message for Jay many times.

It doesn’t seem to get through with just a few posts. 

 

Or is it the effect of seeing Benning doing business and waste players left and right due to cap problems.

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, LillStrimma said:

I believe you have to repeat this message for Jay many times.

It doesn’t seem to get through with just a few posts. 

 

Or is it the effect of seeing Benning doing business and waste players left and right due to cap problems.

 

1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

GMs worth their weight in gold don't operate sequentially - ie. this must happen before I move onto the next item.

With the management team he has in place, I'm pretty sure they've got a number of different scenarios worked out that would guide them in their subsequent actions based on analyses they've done in case different $$$ amounts are signed between pending (R/U)FA players and the team, including different contractual structure options.

 

I really don't think there's much hamstringing going on with GMPA, and if there is, he needs to learn to trust his management team's analytical abilities more so that he has more scenarios to plan around.

Ok, so then explain...

If I'm so wrong, and according to you two a good GM should be able to sign expiring UFA's without waiting for Peteys contract.... then why haven't they?

We will have 6 UFA's at the end of the season and you can guarantee the canucks would love to keep at least 4 of them. So where are their contracts?

 

 

[JayDangles]

11 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

I believe you have to repeat this message for Jay many times.

It doesn’t seem to get through with just a few posts. 

 

Or is it the effect of seeing Benning doing business and waste players left and right due to cap problems.

You're all over the map. Here you blame Benning for wasting players... then in your earlier post you were blaming Benning if Petey walks. Still waiting for you to explain that statement.

[The Arrogant Worms]

 

[LillStrimma]

32 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

 

Ok, so then explain...

If I'm so wrong, and according to you two a good GM should be able to sign expiring UFA's without waiting for Peteys contract.... then why haven't they?

We will have 6 UFA's at the end of the season and you can guarantee the canucks would love to keep at least 4 of them. So where are their contracts?

 

 

Please, you got players that want max contract everyone of them.

They play on a great team and believe it will only get better.

Why do you think they will take a contract at once? 
 

Just take Myers, fans here say 2 mill. He probably say 4,5 at least. 

 

25 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

You're all over the map. Here you blame Benning for wasting players... then in your earlier post you were blaming Benning if Petey walks. Still waiting for you to explain that statement.

How is that all over the map? 
Two different statesments that both tells a story about how bad Benning was.

 

If you had read my posts earlier from CDC an onwards you would have understand.

Dahlén was one of Peteys best friends in Timrå.

Benning torched that young prospect so Canuck fans harassed Him completely so he had to get away from the net.

Then Benning didn’t help Eriksson from the wrath of the fans so one more case where the harassment of a player from fans had an impact on a players life.

Erikssons wife and kids moved to Dallas.

 

That is Benning saving his own face putting gasolin on two different fires that might affect a young emphatic player like Petey.

Make him harder on the inside. 
 

I said this back then and some morons here that don’t understand psychology talked about me being biased.

[spook007]

4 hours ago, Goalie29 said:

 

It comes with the territory.

 

I guess I am mostly trying to say that since we don't really know what's happening behind closed doors, it's wrong to point fingers.  Maybe the Canucks' offer was well below market value.  Does that make Petey greedy?  I don't think so.  Either way, we just don't know.

Spot on.... 

We know jack.... 

 

For all we know, Petey may already have agreed a new deal, or told them he is not wanting to stay (very doubtful), but nevertheless we just don't know.

 

Or maybe he just don't want to think about the future just now, but actually focus on playing hockey. He may actually really enjoy the hockey the team is playing just now, and don't want to think about $, contracts, Clauses, etc etc just now...

[JayDangles]

8 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Please, you got players that want max contract everyone of them.

They play on a great team and believe it will only get better.

Why do you think they will take a contract at once? 
 

Just take Myers, fans here say 2 mill. He probably say 4,5 at least. 

 

How is that all over the map? 
Two different statesments that both tells a story about how bad Benning was.

 

If you had read my posts earlier from CDC an onwards you would have understand.

Dahlén was one of Peteys best friends in Timrå.

Benning torched that young prospect so Canuck fans harassed Him completely so he had to get away from the net.

Then Benning didn’t help Eriksson from the wrath of the fans so one more case where the harassment of a player from fans had an impact on a players life.

Erikssons wife and kids moved to Dallas.

 

That is Benning saving his own face putting gasolin on two different fires that might affect a young emphatic player like Petey.

Make him harder on the inside. 
 

I said this back then and some morons here that don’t understand psychology talked about me being biased.

Man, you really like to write your own narrative. Sure Benning made some gaffs, he also made some great moves (drafting Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Demko) Signing 3 of them to great contracts..

But if you need to also blame him for players not working out, or for their on ice play, or for the media then sorry, you are 100% bias.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

 

Ok, so then explain...

If I'm so wrong, and according to you two a good GM should be able to sign expiring UFA's without waiting for Peteys contract.... then why haven't they?

We will have 6 UFA's at the end of the season and you can guarantee the canucks would love to keep at least 4 of them. So where are their contracts?

 

 

 

Because those pending UFAs are not core players, they're not priority, and they may not even factor into planning in subsequent years.  There could literally be thousands of reasons why their contracts haven't been negotiated yet, running the full spectrum from agent sitting on their thumbs to player wanting to see where their buddies land to GM wanting to see how the playoffs unfold to the coach thinks they stink like weed.  

 

But it's not for us to speculate why - if it needs to get done, I think management will get it done.  That they haven't gotten it done yet isn't necessarily because they're waiting for EP40's agent to sit at the table.

[JayDangles]

2 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Because those pending UFAs are not core players, they're not priority, and they may not even factor into planning in subsequent years.  There could literally be thousands of reasons why their contracts haven't been negotiated yet, running the full spectrum from agent sitting on their thumbs to player wanting to see where their buddies land to GM wanting to see how the playoffs unfold to the coach thinks they stink like weed.  

 

But it's not for us to speculate why - if it needs to get done, I think management will get it done.  That they haven't gotten it done yet isn't necessarily because they're waiting for EP40's agent to sit at the table.

lol! You literally contradicted yourself. I said they are waiting for Petey to sign before they can make moves. You argued that a good GM doesn't let waiting for a core player effect their ability to make moves.

Then you write UFA's are not a priority, which indicates that Petey IS the priority because he's a core player and thats why they aren't signing UFA's. 

You're just spinning your wheels trying to argue against a very simple scenario.

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, JayDangles said:

lol! You literally contradicted yourself. I said they are waiting for Petey to sign before they can make moves. You argued that a good GM doesn't let waiting for a core player effect their ability to make moves.

Then you write UFA's are not a priority, which indicates that Petey IS the priority because he's a core player and thats why they aren't signing UFA's. 

You're just spinning your wheels trying to argue against a very simple scenario.

 

 

Your reading comprehension and logic needs work.

[JayDangles]

4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Your reading comprehension and logic needs work.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

But one thing I know for sure is that the evidence, the statements from Allvin, from Media, from Canucks analysts like Ian MacIntyre ALL indicate that the Canucks management are waiting for Petey and his agent to start/complete negotiations and in absence of his contract being done, they don't appear to be able to make moves that impact the team beyond this year. 

 

There doesn't seem to be any statements or conversation which supports your narrative that the Canucks are really happy with where things are at and they are comfortable making whatever decisions they want before signing Petey.

 

 

[LillStrimma]

42 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Man, you really like to write your own narrative. Sure Benning made some gaffs, he also made some great moves (drafting Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Demko) Signing 3 of them to great contracts..

But if you need to also blame him for players not working out, or for their on ice play, or for the media then sorry, you are 100% bias.

If you don’t understand and doesn’t even bother to try understand, why discuss with me? 

You could have left it at the place where you didn’t show that you didn’t understand.

[JayDangles]

4 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

If you don’t understand and doesn’t even bother to try understand, why discuss with me? 

You could have left it at the place where you didn’t show that you didn’t understand.

Ah yes, classic response. 

 

Then explain it to me instead of trying to act superior.

Explain clearly how if Petey walks it's Bennings fault. (as you stated)

 

Explain clearly how Eriksson moving back to Dallas is Bennings fault (as you've stated)

You seem to throw out these random statements and when called upon to back them up or explain them, you walk away mumbling that I don't understand. Sorry, but I don't think you understand what you're even saying.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

 

Ok, so then explain...

If I'm so wrong, and according to you two a good GM should be able to sign expiring UFA's without waiting for Peteys contract.... then why haven't they?

We will have 6 UFA's at the end of the season and you can guarantee the canucks would love to keep at least 4 of them. So where are their contracts?

 

 

 

Since when do expiring UFA's sign contracts in January?  Pretty sure most if not all will wait until they are on the open market.  Isn't that how we got Blueger, DeSmith, Mikheyev, Suter, Cole, Joshua, Soucy in the first place?  Didn't they all sign in the summer?