Q&A with Canucks GM Patrik Allvin

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Since when do expiring UFA's sign contracts in January?  Pretty sure most if not all will wait until they are on the open market.  Isn't that how we got Blueger, DeSmith, Mikheyev, Suter, Cole, Joshua, Soucy in the first place?  Didn't they all sign in the summer?

Typically (but not always) its the players that the team doesn't want to or intend on signing who end up as UFA's in the summer. So sure, if the Canucks have no intention of signing any of the 6 UFA's then for sure your point is valid

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Ah yes, classic response. 

 

Then explain it to me instead of trying to act superior.

Explain clearly how if Petey walks it's Bennings fault. (as you stated)

 

Explain clearly how Eriksson moving back to Dallas is Bennings fault (as you've stated)

You seem to throw out these random statements and when called upon to back them up or explain them, you walk away mumbling that I don't understand. Sorry, but I don't think you understand what you're even saying.

 

 

Petey was looking for an 8-year deal when he signed 3 years ago.  Benning ran out of time and out of money, so he was only able to give him a 3-year deal and gave Hughes a 6-year deal.  Benning was too obsessed with trading for OEL that he couldn't concentrate on anything else.

 

Imagine if Benning had the cap space and signed Petey to an 8-year $8.5 million deal?  Imagine if Benning never traded for OEL and we didn't have his dead money on the books?

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Petey was looking for an 8-year deal when he signed 3 years ago.  Benning ran out of time and out of money, so he was only able to give him a 3-year deal and gave Hughes a 6-year deal.  Benning was too obsessed with trading for OEL that he couldn't concentrate on anything else.

 

Imagine if Benning had the cap space and signed Petey to an 8-year $8.5 million deal?  Imagine if Benning never traded for OEL and we didn't have his dead money on the books?

Well thats A LOT of assumption pointed at one individual. 

[JIAHN]

4 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Well thats A LOT of assumption pointed at one individual. 

Not really...it even goes further than Pettersson, because, they only signed Hughes for 6 years also......think about what a Norris winner gets on the open market.....

 

No, Eriksson , Myers and OEL deals have killed us.............competitively and monetarily........

Edited January 18 by JIAHN

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Typically (but not always) its the players that the team doesn't want to or intend on signing who end up as UFA's in the summer. So sure, if the Canucks have no intention of signing any of the 6 UFA's then for sure your point is valid

 

According to Allvin, he has a priority list of his free agents.  I am sure the ones that are a priority he will sign first.  It may be now, but it may not be until the summer.  A guy like Joshua might command $3 million on the open market, maybe more.  Allvin might have already offered him $2 million and he rejected.  We don't know.  So unless it is a fair deal for both parties, I don't see how any of the pending UFA's will sign a contract now when they can have a bidding war with other teams in the summer.

 

Perfect example is Nylander.  Sure, Toronto signed him now, but at what cost?  They obviously overpaid for him so Nylander took the offer.  I don't recall too many pending UFA's signing an extension in January.  There may be the odd exception, but it is not very common.  Usually, they will wait until at least June to put pressure on their current team prior to the draft and prior to free agency starting.  Unless it's an overpayment, I don't see many players signing a new contract in January.

 

JT Miller signed prior to the season starting, so there is that example as well.  But not in January.  BO signed in January like Nylander, but again an overpayment to keep him from becoming a UFA...

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Well thats A LOT of assumption pointed at one individual. 

 

JP Barry was quoted as saying Petey wanted an 8 year deal.  Benning didn't have the cap space for it.  Two of the greatest talents in Canucks history, and Benning shit the bed and couldn't find a way to sign them both for 8 years.  Instead we got OEL.  Thanks Benning...

[JayDangles]

2 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

Not really...it even goes further than Pettersson, because, they only signed Hughes for 6 years also......think about what a Norris winner gets on the open market.....

 

No, Eriksson , Myers and OEL deals have killed us.............competitively and monetarily........

right, So this is a one sided historical view?

We are only able to look at the negatives, and then make sure we spin the positives into negatives... gotcha.

Myers playing really well now is a good indication of coaching, not contract issues. But sure, Benning's fault too.

You're right, Hughes is signed for 3 more years at $7.85m yet somehow you find that as a negative against Benning? I repeat, Norris trophy candidate locked up for 3 years and you're complaining?

 

I mean i know Benning f'd up on a lot of things. For sure OEL is one of them... but I can't take you seriously if you only present a one sided view of history to support your narrative. 

[JayDangles]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

According to Allvin, he has a priority list of his free agents.  I am sure the ones that are a priority he will sign first.  It may be now, but it may not be until the summer.  A guy like Joshua might command $3 million on the open market, maybe more.  Allvin might have already offered him $2 million and he rejected.  We don't know.  So unless it is a fair deal for both parties, I don't see how any of the pending UFA's will sign a contract now when they can have a bidding war with other teams in the summer.

 

Perfect example is Nylander.  Sure, Toronto signed him now, but at what cost?  They obviously overpaid for him so Nylander took the offer.  I don't recall too many pending UFA's signing an extension in January.  There may be the odd exception, but it is not very common.  Usually, they will wait until at least June to put pressure on their current team prior to the draft and prior to free agency starting.  Unless it's an overpayment, I don't see many players signing a new contract in January.

 

JT Miller signed prior to the season starting, so there is that example as well.  But not in January.  BO signed in January like Nylander, but again an overpayment to keep him from becoming a UFA...

And can we agree that Petey (even though he's an RFA) is at the top of that list?

Thus it is logical to assume that without a contract in place for Petey, Allvin is forced to wait on other UFA's, or larger trades etc.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

And can we agree that Petey (even though he's an RFA) is at the top of that list?

Thus it is logical to assume that without a contract in place for Petey, Allvin is forced to wait on other UFA's, or larger trades etc.

 

Yes, for sure, Petey is #1 on the list.  Which is why there is so much discussion around it.  However, Allvin doesn't need to sign Petey in January as all of the other players on the list can wait until after the season ends.  If Petey isn't signed by the end of the season, which could be in June this year, then that is the time I would start to panic and maybe consider trading him prior to the draft and free agency.  I don't believe Allvin will allow the Petey contract to not get resolved prior to the end of the season...

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

right, So this is a one sided historical view?

We are only able to look at the negatives, and then make sure we spin the positives into negatives... gotcha.

Myers playing really well now is a good indication of coaching, not contract issues. But sure, Benning's fault too.

You're right, Hughes is signed for 3 more years at $7.85m yet somehow you find that as a negative against Benning? I repeat, Norris trophy candidate locked up for 3 years and you're complaining?

 

I mean i know Benning f'd up on a lot of things. For sure OEL is one of them... but I can't take you seriously if you only present a one sided view of history to support your narrative. 

 

Didn't Benning hire the coaches that couldn't coach Myers into being a competent defenceman like he is now?

[JayDangles]

18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Didn't Benning hire the coaches that couldn't coach Myers into being a competent defenceman like he is now?

Totally, but Benning cant hire a coach specifically around one player. Or fire a coach specifically because one player isn't playing well. So you can't blame Benning for Myers poor play any more than you can credit Benning for Demkos good play. 

[Rocket-68]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:12 PM, JayDangles said:

I respect how professional Allvin is when handling the Petey contract situation. It must be very frustrating for them to be stalled waiting for Petey to sit down and get this done. Cant sign expiring UFA's. Cant make a trade that impacts future salary cap etc.

 

I'm starting to get a little impatient with the situation and I don't have any skin in the game so to speak.

 

I know Petey is a good person and a hell of a good hockey player, but him holding out on his last contract, and now stalling on this one is starting to rub me the wrong way. Not coming off as a "team player".

 

At some point, there will be an honest conversation along the lines of "we have to plan around you then and the likelihood you will just sign a QO and walk out into UFA after it. We can wait for a while but your up-in-the-air status is hurting the team. Here is what we are comfortable term wise and AAV range. If that is not in your ball park, let us know and we can all adjust."

 

Now, it is nice being an arm-chair GM but in the real world things are different. I for one am glad PA/JR are at the helm at this critical time (this TDL and next summer).

[JayDangles]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Yes, for sure, Petey is #1 on the list.  Which is why there is so much discussion around it.  However, Allvin doesn't need to sign Petey in January as all of the other players on the list can wait until after the season ends.  If Petey isn't signed by the end of the season, which could be in June this year, then that is the time I would start to panic and maybe consider trading him prior to the draft and free agency.  I don't believe Allvin will allow the Petey contract to not get resolved prior to the end of the season...

But dont you think that without knowing what Petey will cost the team next year, or for the next 8 years, it will be much more difficult to make roster moves leading up the the TDL this year?

Whether you're a believer in this team or not, it does feel like we could be 1 or 2 good moves away from being a real contender this year. I'd hate for management to have to pass on those moves because of Petey's contract uncertainty. That would be a poor move on Peteys part. He could potentially be hurting the very team he is trying to help win with

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Rocket-68 said:

 

At some point, there will be an honest conversation along the lines of "we have to plan around you then and the likelihood you will just sign a QO and walk out into UFA after it. We can wait for a while but your up-in-the-air status is hurting the team. Here is what we are comfortable term wise and AAV range. If that is not in your ball park, let us know and we can all adjust."

 

Now, it is nice being an arm-chair GM but in the real world things are different. I for one am glad PA/JR are at the helm at this critical time (this TDL and next summer).

100% agree. You would think it's just an easy phone call and both sides speaking in plain terms, but i highly doubt its that simple. I fully trust this management group. I just hate the idea that Peteys contract is holding this awesome management team from doing what they do best.

[VegasCanuck]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:12 PM, JayDangles said:

I respect how professional Allvin is when handling the Petey contract situation. It must be very frustrating for them to be stalled waiting for Petey to sit down and get this done. Cant sign expiring UFA's. Cant make a trade that impacts future salary cap etc.

 

I'm starting to get a little impatient with the situation and I don't have any skin in the game so to speak.

 

I know Petey is a good person and a hell of a good hockey player, but him holding out on his last contract, and now stalling on this one is starting to rub me the wrong way. Not coming off as a "team player".

I don't think there is anywhere near the sense of urgency around Canuck Management as there is with Canuck fans. Canucks generally know within a few hundred thousand, where they are going to be on this once all the dust settles. I don't believe It would affect their decisions on free agents at this point. Getting it done is likely more about the finer details than total dollars.

 

If Pettersson wants to just focus on the season and worry about this in the summer, I really couldn't care less. We have a great team, we're going to do what's necessary to keep the core together and build out around them.

[Elias Pettersson]

44 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Totally, but Benning cant hire a coach specifically around one player. Or fire a coach specifically because one player isn't playing well. So you can't blame Benning for Myers poor play any more than you can credit Benning for Demkos good play. 

 

True, but Allvin was smart enough to hire a coach in Tocchet who he knew was smart enough to bring in Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar, who in turn have turned Myers into a capable top 4 Dman.

 

There is a reason why this team has turned around so fast and is now a top team in the NHL.  Sure, Benning drafted our core, but he failed pretty much at everything else.

 

Benning is comparable to a Ferrari with only the engine.  The engine is the core, but without a proper transmission, aerodynamic body, tires, and most importantly the driver, the car won't even get out of the garage.  With JR and Allvin, not only is the Ferrari out of the garage, it is winning races against the best cars in the world...

[Elias Pettersson]

46 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

But dont you think that without knowing what Petey will cost the team next year, or for the next 8 years, it will be much more difficult to make roster moves leading up the the TDL this year?

Whether you're a believer in this team or not, it does feel like we could be 1 or 2 good moves away from being a real contender this year. I'd hate for management to have to pass on those moves because of Petey's contract uncertainty. That would be a poor move on Peteys part. He could potentially be hurting the very team he is trying to help win with

 

Petey's contract will be between $11.5 million and $12.5 million.  Allvin already knows this.  The term is irrelevant at this point.  I don't think that $1 million is going to change how Allvin does business at this year's deadline...

[JIAHN]

2 hours ago, JayDangles said:

right, So this is a one sided historical view?

We are only able to look at the negatives, and then make sure we spin the positives into negatives... gotcha.

Myers playing really well now is a good indication of coaching, not contract issues. But sure, Benning's fault too.

You're right, Hughes is signed for 3 more years at $7.85m yet somehow you find that as a negative against Benning? I repeat, Norris trophy candidate locked up for 3 years and you're complaining?

 

I mean i know Benning f'd up on a lot of things. For sure OEL is one of them... but I can't take you seriously if you only present a one sided view of history to support your narrative. 

I think Benning Fkd up Contracts and Scouting, the mere fact that he drafted Pettersson and Hughes, is that they basically fell into his lap. (He was not the only one looking at those 2....In fact NYR's tried to move up and get Pettersson, but couldn't, so Benning had indications that other teams thought highly of Pettersson. Hughes was a gift from Yzerman, and not taking Hughes was the hot issue of not only Detroit, but of the entire draft. So unless he was dumb and blind, he could not, not take them. But there were other picks that he completely flubbed on. His drafting with his other picks, were dismal at best. He was well under the norms for drafting and developing picks. Not that he had alot, as he spent alot of his draft capital, especially his 2nd's which were all high during his reign.

 

He also, stabbed Linden in the back, which IMO, was a terrible thing to do, and which also defines Aqualini's management skills, as he actually believed JB, who thought he was ready to compete. IMO, Benning's failure to identify the teams weakness's is what defines him, in my opinion. that and just signing really bad contracts.

 

Honestly, I was a big supporter of Benning at first, but quickly seen his inability to manage. Pettersson and Hughes aside.........exactly what did he do, that was so incredible or even managerial? 

[Ballisticsports]

21 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

I think Benning Fkd up Contracts and Scouting, the mere fact that he drafted Pettersson and Hughes, is that they basically fell into his lap. (He was not the only one looking at those 2....In fact NYR's tried to move up and get Pettersson, but couldn't, so Benning had indications that other teams thought highly of Pettersson. Hughes was a gift from Yzerman, and not taking Hughes was the hot issue of not only Detroit, but of the entire draft. So unless he was dumb and blind, he could not, not take them. But there were other picks that he completely flubbed on. His drafting with his other picks, were dismal at best. He was well under the norms for drafting and developing picks. Not that he had alot, as he spent alot of his draft capital, especially his 2nd's which were all high during his reign.

 

He also, stabbed Linden in the back, which IMO, was a terrible thing to do, and which also defines Aqualini's management skills, as he actually believed JB, who thought he was ready to compete. IMO, Benning's failure to identify the teams weakness's is what defines him, in my opinion. that and just signing really bad contracts.

 

Honestly, I was a big supporter of Benning at first, but quickly seen his inability to manage. Pettersson and Hughes aside.........exactly what did he do, that was so incredible or even managerial? 

I too was on board at first and then saw what he said and did were not meshing

I will never give him undue credit for others doing their job and him getting credit for it, as TL said if it would have been up to JB we wouldn't have taken EP

 

[EdgarM]

7 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

GMs worth their weight in gold don't operate sequentially - ie. this must happen before I move onto the next item.

With the management team he has in place, I'm pretty sure they've got a number of different scenarios worked out that would guide them in their subsequent actions based on analyses they've done in case different $$$ amounts are signed between pending (R/U)FA players and the team, including different contractual structure options.

 

I really don't think there's much hamstringing going on with GMPA, and if there is, he needs to learn to trust his management team's analytical abilities more so that he has more scenarios to plan around.

Uh...you see it all the time when teams have players to sign, the big deal gets done first and then it cascases down, thats the logical way to do it, you want to make sure you have enough in the salary cap to pay your top players.

If they sign him, they might all of a sudden realize they have enough to bring in additional help. Other good deals might come and go because we are awaiting our biggest deal on the team. 

Signing sooner rather then later is the "team player" thing to do.

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

True, but Allvin was smart enough to hire a coach in Tocchet who he knew was smart enough to bring in Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar, who in turn have turned Myers into a capable top 4 Dman.

 

There is a reason why this team has turned around so fast and is now a top team in the NHL.  Sure, Benning drafted our core, but he failed pretty much at everything else.

 

Benning is comparable to a Ferrari with only the engine.  The engine is the core, but without a proper transmission, aerodynamic body, tires, and most importantly the driver, the car won't even get out of the garage.  With JR and Allvin, not only is the Ferrari out of the garage, it is winning races against the best cars in the world...

To be clear, I'm with you on Benning. He was not a good GM. I forget how we went down this road. I think it was me just arguing against some claims against Benning that I didn't see as accurate. But I for sure can't defend everything he did.

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, JIAHN said:

I think Benning Fkd up Contracts and Scouting, the mere fact that he drafted Pettersson and Hughes, is that they basically fell into his lap. (He was not the only one looking at those 2....In fact NYR's tried to move up and get Pettersson, but couldn't, so Benning had indications that other teams thought highly of Pettersson. Hughes was a gift from Yzerman, and not taking Hughes was the hot issue of not only Detroit, but of the entire draft. So unless he was dumb and blind, he could not, not take them. But there were other picks that he completely flubbed on. His drafting with his other picks, were dismal at best. He was well under the norms for drafting and developing picks. Not that he had alot, as he spent alot of his draft capital, especially his 2nd's which were all high during his reign.

 

He also, stabbed Linden in the back, which IMO, was a terrible thing to do, and which also defines Aqualini's management skills, as he actually believed JB, who thought he was ready to compete. IMO, Benning's failure to identify the teams weakness's is what defines him, in my opinion. that and just signing really bad contracts.

 

Honestly, I was a big supporter of Benning at first, but quickly seen his inability to manage. Pettersson and Hughes aside.........exactly what did he do, that was so incredible or even managerial? 

There's no point in me pointing out the positives if you refuse to see them.

Benning made a lot of mistakes, but if you are going to intentionally disregard the positives or intentionally put a spin on them to make it sound like the good things "fell into his lap" then there's no point in me wasting my time listing them.

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Petey's contract will be between $11.5 million and $12.5 million.  Allvin already knows this.  The term is irrelevant at this point.  I don't think that $1 million is going to change how Allvin does business at this year's deadline...

Maybe your right. But what happens if Petey demands $13m. Then that $1m makes a big deal. Especially since we spend to the cap every year. 

What if he wants another 3 year bridge deal for $9m? I'm just saying, until a contract is signed I doubt Allvin feels comfortable to just assume.

So hurry up and sign your deal man!

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Maybe your right. But what happens if Petey demands $13m. Then that $1m makes a big deal. Especially since we spend to the cap every year. 

What if he wants another 3 year bridge deal for $9m? I'm just saying, until a contract is signed I doubt Allvin feels comfortable to just assume.

So hurry up and sign your deal man!

 

I think if Petey contract demands are unreasonable then he will be traded for a haul.  I don't want that to happen, but as Todd Bertuzzi once said, "it is what it is"...

[JIAHN]

2 hours ago, JayDangles said:

There's no point in me pointing out the positives if you refuse to see them.

Benning made a lot of mistakes, but if you are going to intentionally disregard the positives or intentionally put a spin on them to make it sound like the good things "fell into his lap" then there's no point in me wasting my time listing them.

 

Exactly what I would say if I could not think of any! Come on list them!